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Angela Merkel wants to ban the burka?

DrZoidberg said:
Trausti said:
The burka should be banned in all instances where wearing a ski mask would be prohibited. Otherwise, the state should not intrude in personal or religious choice of dress.
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That's an excellent point. People actually use ski masks when they're skiing. Germany is right next to the alps. How are they planing on dealing with that issue? Muslim women could just start walking around with ski masks then. Which would make Merkel look like an idiot. Also the Muslim women. But not as much as Merkel.
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Actually, muslim women walking around in ski masks would be an improvement. A ski-mask is not a symbol of oppression. And I don't think it looks any more idiotic to wear than a burqa, especially if there are other people wearing ski masks for skiing-related reasons anyway.

EDITED TO ADD: Here is a picture of a woman in a ski mask. Does she look like an idiot to you and why?

balaclava-small.jpg
 
Running to Mars said:
As an ex Muslim who hates Islam more than any other religion, I find the idea of banning the burqa, or any otherpiece of clothing, to be pretty reprehensible. Wearing the burqa doesn't harm anyone so why ban it?

Earlier in the thread, the user Bomb #20 brought up the idea that objecting to a burqa ban means you have to object to a minimum wage. (Sorry, I'm a newbie at this stuff so I don't know the proper procedure for quoting and all that.)
But anyways, the reason why we can prohibit working for under the minimum wage is because it does hurt other people ( businesses start expecting people to work for less and many can't afford to work for that little.) Wearing the burqa doesnt.
You can argue that wearing the burqa harms the wearer. And I'd actually agree with you. I think the burqa is a horrendous, grotesque symbol of oppression against women. And I'd honestly rejoice if it disappeared from the face of the earyh tomorrow. But you have to respect people's decisions to wear what they want (again, as long as it doesn't bring harm to anyone else.) Even if you think they're making the wrong decision or hurting themselves. Because otherwise you start banning people for smoking weed, or playing too many video games. All because "it's for their own good."
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I think the minimum wage comparison is apt. It certainly violates some people's rights and even livelihood to forbid them from working under certain hourly wage, but as a society we've deemed that it is a lesser evil than havign a systemic problem with employers pushing down wages for everyone. Likewise, minimum wage is not something that is or should be universal, if circumstances were such that low-wage employees would be otherwise protected or if wages were negotiated with unions then minimum wage would not be needed.

The idea behind burqa/niqab ban is also to combat systemic oppression and dehumanization of women. I think as a society, Germany has just as much right to enact such minor restrictions to fight inequality, as the US government for example has to mandate a minimum wage.
 
Jayjay said:
The idea behind burqa/niqab ban is also to combat systemic oppression and dehumanization of women. I think as a society, Germany has just as much right to enact such minor restrictions to fight inequality, as the US government for example has to mandate a minimum wage.
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Of course Germany has the right to enact ineffective and stupid laws aimed at one gender. That is not the issue. If the problem is people being forced to wear clothes against their will, then make that the law. Banning a form of clothing that only one gender wears needlessly restricts the voluntary choices of some people while opening a door to all sorts of issues - defining a burka, dealing with the issues of "pseudo" burkas (anyone remember the flap over burkinis) - while not really addressing the underlying issues. Moreover, why focus on the negative effects of Islam on women while ignoring the negative effects of it on men?
 
Jayjay said:
A ski-mask is not a symbol of oppression.
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The moment a Muslim woman starts using them it will be. We can't regulate ourselves to happiness. The problem isn't that they're wearing Burkhas but that they're Muslim. If fat people don't start dieting when they're fat shamed then Muslim women won't stop wearing Burkhas because they're banned.

And the Burkha ban is pretty soft. It just says in the Quran that men and women should dress modestly. The rest is interpretation. I'm sure they'll find a way to follow the law while still wearing what in practice is a Burkha. Such an idiotic attempt.
 
Banning bag over a head is no more idiotic than bag itself, in fact it's much less idiotic. Women forced to wear bag over their head can't hold any regular job in Germany.
 
barbos said:
Banning bag over a head is no more idiotic than bag itself, in fact it's much less idiotic. Women forced to wear bag over their head can't hold any regular job in Germany.
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They can work as ninjas.

- - - Updated - - -

Beekeepers

They can be on a biohazard team. Whatever it is Homer Simpson does at the nuclear plant.

Superhero
 
DrZoidberg said:
barbos said:
Banning bag over a head is no more idiotic than bag itself, in fact it's much less idiotic. Women forced to wear bag over their head can't hold any regular job in Germany.
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They can work as ninjas.

- - - Updated - - -

Beekeepers

They can be on a biohazard team. Whatever it is Homer Simpson does at the nuclear plant.

Superhero
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And you must be some kind of clown.
 
Last edited:
Jayjay said:
EDITED TO ADD: Here is a picture of a woman in a ski mask. Does she look like an idiot to you and why?
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Depends on the ambient temperature of course. In any weather except extremely cold it looks moronic. Like an imbecile. Like the dumbest motherfucker who ever lived. [/kirk lazarus]
Maybe that's why so many Islamists are invading Sweden in the first place? Cold enough not to overheat with a bag on your head.

Also, if she is wearing this getup because she is a Standing Rock camper, then she is an idiot for different reasons. :)
 
Yet another attempted Islamist terrorist attack in Germany. This time by a 12 year old Iraqi Muslim.
Report: 12-year-old planned two bomb attacks in German city of Ludwigshafen

Will Merkel finally grow a pair and start deporting these people? They should not get to stay in Europe if they commit serious crimes and/or get radicalized.

I wonder what level of Islamic garb his mother is wearing.
 
laughing dog said:
And you think that a burka ban would stop this?
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It would make Islamists less likely to choose Germany as a destination. Let them invade Saudi Arabia instead. They will like the dress code better.

A burka ban is hardly enough of course. "Refugees" who commit serious crimes or show Islamist tendencies should be deported. The second goes doubly so for imams and other clerics who can radicalize countless others.
Also, only more secular minded migrants should be allowed to immigrate in the first place. Radicals should be kept out.
 
Derec said:
laughing dog said:
And you think that a burka ban would stop this?
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It would make Islamists less likely to choose Germany as a destination. Let them invade Saudi Arabia instead. They will like the dress code better.

A burka ban is hardly enough of course. "Refugees" who commit serious crimes or show Islamist tendencies should be deported. The second goes doubly so for imams and other clerics who can radicalize countless others.
Also, only more secular minded migrants should be allowed to immigrate in the first place. Radicals should be kept out.
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I know "radicals" scare you. Refugees and immigrants move to places that are safe and offer economic opportunities.

And wtf constitutes "Islamic tendencies"? Perhaps the US should deport people immigrants who show "racist" tendencies or "misogynistic" tendencies?
 
I don't know if it has been covered yet, and I don't have enough interest in this to read 300+ comments to find out, but Germany doesn't have freedom of religion like we do in the US. Different religions fare differently in Germany. The Christian religions and Judaism have full rights in Germany. They can teach in public schools including their dogmas. The state will collect a religion tax from their adherents and pass the money along to the religion. This is true all through Germany. From there it gets to be hard to generalize because each state, lande, can be different. There is a second tier who can build their houses of worship and who are tax exempt, but they aren't allowed to teach in schools and the government won't collect their money for them. Islam is generally in this second tier. Then there is another group that are allowed to worship but they get nothing from the government, like Seventh day adventists and the Mormons. Then there are the religions that can't practise like the Scientologists, I think.

If this seems kind of vague it has been twenty years since I lived in Germany and I am not very interested in religion. But the important point is that religion is different in Germany and to Germans than in the US. It is more engrained into the government and to the society than it is in the US.

At the same time there are a lot more atheists in Germany than in the US. But this might have more to do with the fact that the only way you can avoid the religion tax is by registering as an atheist.

Also, Merkel isn't really changing her attitude about immigration. She says, quite correctly, that Germany needs immigration now and in the future to keep up their working population. And Germany allowed increased immigration under the strict condition that the immigrants would become Germans and would assimilate into the German culture. Germany has a long experience with guest worker programs and they understand the problems that they bring. The Germans believe that they can find a solution for every problem and that it will be a German solution and the best solution.
 
It is very naïve to suppose that immigrants can simply 'assimilate' to a home culture, conveniently rubbing out all their thoughts and memories to do so, and ludicrous to suppose that any Western capitalist state can afford to ban immigration - it is too expensive for us to have children at replacement level. Mostly, the new elements enrich the culture.
 
Derec said:
"Refugees" who commit serious crimes or show Islamist tendencies should be deported.
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Hi Derec. Just out of curiosity, did you by any chance originally write "Islamic tendencies", and then within the next few minutes edit your post to say "Islamist tendencies"?
 
iolo said:
It is very naïve to suppose that immigrants can simply 'assimilate' to a home culture, conveniently rubbing out all their thoughts and memories to do so, and ludicrous to suppose that any Western capitalist state can afford to ban immigration - it is too expensive for us to have children at replacement level. Mostly, the new elements enrich the culture.
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Diversity is excellent and I agree being asked to assimilate is unreasonable and it really sounds more like conformity. Mutual respect for each other (all cultures) works better. The Jews and Chinese never assimilated for a long time and this was never a problem. Intolerance is what we should address.

Let's assume I am wrong in wanting to curtail immigration (except for a quote of refugees). Well the lousy Tory party isn't keeping up with house building and expanding hospitals. It is slashing council spending while the council tax goes up. To be honest I hope I get another job abroad so can work away from the UK again.
 
Derec said:
laughing dog said:
And you think that a burka ban would stop this?
Click to expand...
It would make Islamists less likely to choose Germany as a destination. Let them invade Saudi Arabia instead. They will like the dress code better.

A burka ban is hardly enough of course. "Refugees" who commit serious crimes or show Islamist tendencies should be deported. The second goes doubly so for imams and other clerics who can radicalize countless others.
Also, only more secular minded migrants should be allowed to immigrate in the first place. Radicals should be kept out.
Click to expand...

Saudi doesn't take in Asylum seekers. Yet who would seek asylum there anyway. Many of its own people are impoverished.
 
Derec said:
laughing dog said:
And you think that a burka ban would stop this?
Click to expand...
It would make Islamists less likely to choose Germany as a destination. Let them invade Saudi Arabia instead. They will like the dress code better.

A burka ban is hardly enough of course. "Refugees" who commit serious crimes or show Islamist tendencies should be deported. The second goes doubly so for imams and other clerics who can radicalize countless others.
Also, only more secular minded migrants should be allowed to immigrate in the first place. Radicals should be kept out.
Click to expand...

Moslems of any description should not be allowed into any Western country regardless. Islam is incompatible with Western culture or it's ideals.
If they're not prepared to leave their barbaric religion behind, then stuff them!
 
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