Angela Merkel wants to ban the burka?

[barbos]

Your anecdotal examples are just anecdotal examples. I too had known some Middle East "muslim", he drank beer and stuff.

What's more, Syria before the West started supporting terrorists there, was a pretty forward-looking country, and no Saudi-Arabia.

Not quite so anymore, thanks to great foreign policy of US and EU.

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I don't need to assume anything, I was asked to look at the past and make a prediction based on that. I did exactly that and I saw Dark fucking Ages after Roman Empire fell.

So, don't introduce slavery or pass laws forcing people to follow their father's trade; don't demand very big taxes that don't in any way benefit the taxpayer and, above all, don't have a military that is very well paid and able to set up whomever it chooses in government. mostof all, don't have an Empire that disarms vast numbers of people and prevents them fighting invaders. You are welcome to those lessons, but I fear they are not very relevant, and nor is an obsession with other people's religions, about which you know next to nothing. The Muslims I know are extremely British (other than those in Bradford who insist in sending 'home' for wives), and everything I read suggests that those in the States are even further forward.

Your anecdotal examples are just anecdotal examples. I too had known some Middle East "muslim", he drank beer and stuff.

What's more, Syria before the West started supporting terrorists there, was a pretty forward-looking country, and no Saudi-Arabia.

Not quite so anymore, thanks to great foreign policy of US and EU.

I suppose that experience and anecdote are different: yes, I have anecdotes about drinking with Muslims, but I have experience of Muslim students, even from Bradford, rather a lot of them, who were already pretty much where I stood on most issues, and I can't see that is just anecdote, because it continued over a number of years. Inevitably you get a reaction, often in the third generation, against assimilation (I had 'Irish' students whose father's were big deal officers in the British Army who learned Irish and went out to the West, but this has always been so - read up on Erskine Childers). In my own case, my parents were quite happy to give up our language, and I have devoted a great part of my life to learning to be a decent patriot). I found that the women Muslim students, in particular, were a great deal more forward-looking and feminist than most of their English contemporaries. I think any personal experience is inevitably limited, but most racist-type opinion is based on prejudice only. And incidentally, in Sarajevo, I have discussed alcohol with a Muslim waiter who was a lot more on the ball than my temperance great-aunts in their formidable Congregationalist masses.

France/Belgium has had few generations of muslims who now in a state of full de-integration, some of which went to Syria to join ISIS. I know french did a piss poor job of integrating them but even with that I still think it's ridiculous. Problem I think are shitholes like Saudi Arabia who send their mullahs everywhere. It's not that I am against of people migrating it's just this migration is so unnatural. People who move to other country should be willing to accept new culture at least to some degrees. Instead we see these assholes who were born in Europe and who openly harass natives. Oppressing women and treating them like baby making machines is not helping Europe in a long run at all.

Belgium, as you know, is an artificial state, and the antics of its politicians are hardly important. France is a country that has bullied its minorities since the Revolution, bullied them stupidly and unfailingly, and, like the 'States, kept them in poorly-paid employment and living in ghettoes. What has this to do with anything?

Muslim integration in Europe has failed. And I don't think it's all europe's fault.
You mentioned poorly-paid employment and living in ghettoes, But these bags over a head a sure way to keep that way.

 

[TSwizzle]

Muslim integration in Europe has failed. And I don't think it's all europe's fault.

It was bound to fail.

You mentioned poorly-paid employment and living in ghettoes, But these bags over a head a sure way to keep that way.

To be fair, the bags over the head are the least of the problems.

 

[laughing dog]

Muslim integration in Europe has failed. And I don't think it's all europe's fault.
You mentioned poorly-paid employment and living in ghettoes, But these bags over a head a sure way to keep that way.

Muslim integration in Europe is more successful than Russia's integration with Europe.

 

[barbos]

It was bound to fail.

Yes, it had been predictable long before Merkel admitted failure. French still would not admit it even though they had more experience with it.

You mentioned poorly-paid employment and living in ghettoes, But these bags over a head a sure way to keep that way.

To be fair, the bags over the head are the least of the problems.

Well, banning it is a step in a right direction.

 

[Juma]

Because the burqa is a symbol of Islamic oppression. Furthermore, it's basically a statement that Muslim men are animals, not humans.

The point is some women choose to wear it. The Burqa pre dates Islam.
Forcing women to wear a Burqa is just as bad as forcing them not to wear one. The choice should be theirs

No person would choose to wear a burqa if it wasnt required by their social surroundings.
And the reason for use of these types of clothes are not old at all. It is a thing that comes with movements of Islam to want to profile itself and started in the somewhere in 1980-ies.

 

[LordKiran]

The point is some women choose to wear it. The Burqa pre dates Islam.
Forcing women to wear a Burqa is just as bad as forcing them not to wear one. The choice should be theirs

No person would choose to wear a burqa if it wasnt required by their social surroundings.
And the reason for use of these types of clothes are not old at all. It is a thing that comes with movements of Islam to want to profile itself and started in the somewhere in 1980-ies.

Once upon a time I worked at a dollar store, and a black woman would occassionally come in wearing the full garb. She wasn't quiet, or meek, or subservient. Quite the opposite in fact. She spoke fluent English with a native accent, leading me to surmise she is a convert. The burka is not part of the social norm where she lives (Northern PA) but she chose to wear it in spite of this.

I realise this is just an anecdote on my part, but that's the thing about absolutist assertions like yours. I only need one example to prove it false.

 

[bilby]

It would be very easy to believe that no man would choose to wear a polyester safari suit in the sub-tropics; But pictures of Queensland in the 1970s show that they did - and there is no evidence that there was any religious authority sanctioning those who refused to do so.

Banning a particular item of clothing is crazy. Ban coercion, by all means. But not specific fashion choices. No matter how stupid or unlikely they might seem.

 

[barbos]

The point is some women choose to wear it. The Burqa pre dates Islam.
Forcing women to wear a Burqa is just as bad as forcing them not to wear one. The choice should be theirs

No person would choose to wear a burqa if it wasnt required by their social surroundings.
And the reason for use of these types of clothes are not old at all. It is a thing that comes with movements of Islam to want to profile itself and started in the somewhere in 1980-ies.

I has certainly became more popular with the rise of islamism which coincided with the rise of oil theocracies.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Muslim integration in Europe has failed. And I don't think it's all europe's fault.
You mentioned poorly-paid employment and living in ghettoes, But these bags over a head a sure way to keep that way.

I'll just tell that to Mohammed in my team. He hasn't got the memo that his capacity to do his job has failed. To me it looks like he's doing an excellent job.

 

[barbos]

It would be very easy to believe that no man would choose to wear a polyester safari suit in the sub-tropics; But pictures of Queensland in the 1970s show that they did - and there is no evidence that there was any religious authority sanctioning those who refused to do so.

Queensland is a big place, some of it dry and some of it could be humid. Burka in showbelt counties is a sure death sentence if you are outside for more than 30 minutes during sunny humid day in august.

Banning a particular item of clothing is crazy. Ban coercion, by all means. But not specific fashion choices. No matter how stupid or unlikely they might seem.

Burka is not fashion

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Muslim integration in Europe has failed. And I don't think it's all europe's fault.
You mentioned poorly-paid employment and living in ghettoes, But these bags over a head a sure way to keep that way.

I'll just tell that to Mohammed in my team. He hasn't got the memo that his capacity to do his job has failed. To me it looks like he's doing an excellent job.

You and your stupid anecdotal evidence again.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I'll just tell that to Mohammed in my team. He hasn't got the memo that his capacity to do his job has failed. To me it looks like he's doing an excellent job.

You and your stupid anecdotal evidence again.

Says the fascist propaganda tool. Anecdotal evidence is better than invented evidence

 

[barbos]

You and your stupid anecdotal evidence again.

Says the fascist propaganda tool. Anecdotal evidence is better than invented evidence

I'll just tell that to Angela Merkel, She hasn't got the memo that she is a fascist propaganda tool.

 

[LordKiran]

Queensland is a big place, some of it dry and some of it could be humid. Burka in showbelt counties is a sure death sentence if you are outside for more than 30 minutes during sunny humid day in august.

Banning a particular item of clothing is crazy. Ban coercion, by all means. But not specific fashion choices. No matter how stupid or unlikely they might seem.

Burka is not fashion

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Muslim integration in Europe has failed. And I don't think it's all europe's fault.
You mentioned poorly-paid employment and living in ghettoes, But these bags over a head a sure way to keep that way.

I'll just tell that to Mohammed in my team. He hasn't got the memo that his capacity to do his job has failed. To me it looks like he's doing an excellent job.

You and your stupid anecdotal evidence again.

An anecdote is all one needs to refute a baseless, and absolute assertion with no supporting argument or evidence like:

"Muslim integration in Europe has failed."

If you dislike having your arguments undone by anecdotes, then I suggest building a stronger case.

Until then, quit yer bitchin'.

 

[barbos]

Queensland is a big place, some of it dry and some of it could be humid. Burka in showbelt counties is a sure death sentence if you are outside for more than 30 minutes during sunny humid day in august.

Burka is not fashion

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Muslim integration in Europe has failed. And I don't think it's all europe's fault.
You mentioned poorly-paid employment and living in ghettoes, But these bags over a head a sure way to keep that way.

I'll just tell that to Mohammed in my team. He hasn't got the memo that his capacity to do his job has failed. To me it looks like he's doing an excellent job.

You and your stupid anecdotal evidence again.

An anecdote is all one needs to refute a baseless, and absolute assertion with no supporting argument or evidence like:

"Muslim integration in Europe has failed."

If you dislike having your arguments undone by anecdotes, then I suggest building a stronger case.
Until then, quit yer bitchin'.

Wow, just wow.

 

[LordKiran]

Queensland is a big place, some of it dry and some of it could be humid. Burka in showbelt counties is a sure death sentence if you are outside for more than 30 minutes during sunny humid day in august.

Burka is not fashion

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Muslim integration in Europe has failed. And I don't think it's all europe's fault.
You mentioned poorly-paid employment and living in ghettoes, But these bags over a head a sure way to keep that way.

I'll just tell that to Mohammed in my team. He hasn't got the memo that his capacity to do his job has failed. To me it looks like he's doing an excellent job.

You and your stupid anecdotal evidence again.

An anecdote is all one needs to refute a baseless, and absolute assertion with no supporting argument or evidence like:

"Muslim integration in Europe has failed."

If you dislike having your arguments undone by anecdotes, then I suggest building a stronger case.
Until then, quit yer bitchin'.

Wow, just wow.

Alright my hostility was unwarranted, but the gist of my point is valid. You wouldn't see these anecdotes so often if you offered a stronger, more comprehensive argument.

 

[TSwizzle]

To be fair, the bags over the head are the least of the problems.

Well, banning it is a step in a right direction.

I am not convinced it is. It could possibly be counter productive. The attempts to force burqa'd up women off a couple of beaches in France was a bit silly.

 

[TSwizzle]

French women who have been effectively banned from cafés and bars in certain 'no-go' suburbs in the country are fighting back.
Journalists and activists for TV channel France 2 went undercover in various communities with high Islamic populations in Paris to show how conservative Muslim men are enforcing social segregation in public spaces.
In the secret footage, activists Nadia Remand and Aliza Sayah from women's rights campaign group La Brigade des Mères (Brigade of Mothers) enter a shop in Sevran: a commune in the northeastern suburbs of Paris.
'The café terraces and the streets have something in common: women seem to have been erased,' Journalist Caroline Sinz narrated:

DailyMail

"conservative" indeed.

 

[Trausti]

French women who have been effectively banned from cafés and bars in certain 'no-go' suburbs in the country are fighting back.
Journalists and activists for TV channel France 2 went undercover in various communities with high Islamic populations in Paris to show how conservative Muslim men are enforcing social segregation in public spaces.
In the secret footage, activists Nadia Remand and Aliza Sayah from women's rights campaign group La Brigade des Mères (Brigade of Mothers) enter a shop in Sevran: a commune in the northeastern suburbs of Paris.
'The café terraces and the streets have something in common: women seem to have been erased,' Journalist Caroline Sinz narrated:

DailyMail

"conservative" indeed.

It's almost as if mass migration by people holding non-Western values might transform a western host country's culture into the illiberal values held by those migrants. Totally unpredictable. Really. Couldn't see that coming. Nope.

 

[laughing dog]

DailyMail

"conservative" indeed.

It's almost as if mass migration by people holding non-Western values might transform a western host country's culture into the illiberal values held by those migrants. Totally unpredictable. Really. Couldn't see that coming. Nope.

You mean like getting the English to vote for Brexit? Or the Aussies to reject Asian boat people and to retroactively change the residency requirements in order to deport Asian immigrants?

 

[Trausti]

It's almost as if mass migration by people holding non-Western values might transform a western host country's culture into the illiberal values held by those migrants. Totally unpredictable. Really. Couldn't see that coming. Nope.

You mean like getting the English to vote for Brexit?

So the Brits now throw gays off of buildings, murder someone who draws a cartoon, and segregate women in society?