Another Cop Throws A Student

[Ford]

You may be afraid of a teen girl but a trained policeman should not be.

So what should he have done? Apparently some here think being a 12 year old girl should give one carte blache to do whatever she wants without the officer being allowed to lay a finger on her.

So when confronted with an unruly preteen girl, a police officer's only option is to slam her face first into the cement?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I certainly don't believe her side of the story. Things like this don't just come out of nowhere like she's claiming. Thus she's covering up the actual trigger--which means she knows she was in the wrong.

She couldn't be telling the truth therefore she's lying?

Seems a little ridiculous...

I'm saying her version of events doesn't make sense. Cops don't just slam people to the ground if nothing is going on.

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Those people should consider the impression made, then, by what they say - or don't say.

There seems little interest in discussing what the girl was doing or any of the circumstances surrounding the incident and, in fact, Derec's take that we need to know more about those things before forming our conclusions was instantly criticized as unreasonable.

What impression do you think that gives others?

It has certainly given me the impression that done believe what happened to this twelve year old girl should never happen to a twelve year old girl anywhere - ever. But maybe you can help divorce me from that impression...

You could start by showing some interest in the circumstances around the incident.

Your inability or unwillingness to read with comprehension or to think critically is not the problem of other posters.
That aside, what heinous acts that 12 year could have done that would merit such a violent reaction by the police officer in your opinion? Please confine your response to actions that are consistent with the evidence in the video (i.e. unarmed, in restraint, and much smaller than the officer).

The most likely explanation is that she was attacking him--say, kicking.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I certainly don't believe her side of the story. Things like this don't just come out of nowhere like she's claiming. Thus she's covering up the actual trigger--which means she knows she was in the wrong.

Whats your point? What if she's in the wrong? Her being in the right or wrong has nothing to do with the officer deciding to pick her up and throw her to the ground.

I'm saying I don't believe her version of events--things like that don't come out of the blue. Thus I am concluding she is lying--and why would she do that unless her actions gave him a reasonable reason to act as he did?

 

[Frikki]

I certainly don't believe her side of the story. Things like this don't just come out of nowhere like she's claiming. Thus she's covering up the actual trigger--which means she knows she was in the wrong.

You sure do love authority a lot for someone who claims to be libertarian.

 

[Derec]

"Kehm told the victim’s mother that she tried to kick him and that he thought she was going to instigate a fight with another student.

But witnesses said the victim was just having peaceful conversation before the officer attacked her."

https://photographyisnotacrime.com/2016/04/06/watch-san-antonio-cop-body-slams-12-year-old-girl-knocking-her-out/

Be honest. How likely do you think that is really?
Also, that website is a pretty anti-police blog. They always take the anti-police side no matter what the case.

 

[Ford]

"Kehm told the victim’s mother that she tried to kick him and that he thought she was going to instigate a fight with another student.

But witnesses said the victim was just having peaceful conversation before the officer attacked her."

https://photographyisnotacrime.com/2016/04/06/watch-san-antonio-cop-body-slams-12-year-old-girl-knocking-her-out/

Be honest. How likely do you think that is really?

Honestly? It doesn't matter. If the girl were up in the cop's face...even if she tried to kick him as alleged...it does not justify the level of violence he used.


She's a 12 year old girl. He's an adult who has presumably been trained to handle situations with much more formidable opponents. I spent a stint working in night clubs, and I've seen bouncers show more restraint when confronting fully grown belligerent drunks. Hell there are mall cops who do a better job than this guy.

 

[Derec]

Honestly? It doesn't matter. If the girl were up in the cop's face...even if she tried to kick him as alleged...it does not justify the level of violence he used.

You really do not think it matters if he merely handled being attacked less than perfectly or if he attacked a 12 year old girl for no reason?

Also, if it doesn't matter, then why are the family and anti-police crowd so invested in that version of the story?

 

[Ford]

Honestly? It doesn't matter. If the girl were up in the cop's face...even if she tried to kick him as alleged...it does not justify the level of violence he used.

You really do not think it matters if he merely handled being attacked less than perfectly or if he attacked a 12 year old girl for no reason?

Yes. Whether his attack was unprovoked or whether she tried to kick him is irrelevant. The level of force he used was inappropriate. He slammed a kid's face into the pavement, for fuck's sake.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You really do not think it matters if he merely handled being attacked less than perfectly or if he attacked a 12 year old girl for no reason?

Yes. Whether his attack was unprovoked or whether she tried to kick him is irrelevant. The level of force he used was inappropriate. He slammed a kid's face into the pavement, for fuck's sake.

You have no less right of self defense just because of the age of your attacker.

 

[Toni]

Honestly? It doesn't matter. If the girl were up in the cop's face...even if she tried to kick him as alleged...it does not justify the level of violence he used.

You really do not think it matters if he merely handled being attacked less than perfectly or if he attacked a 12 year old girl for no reason?

Also, if it doesn't matter, then why are the family and anti-police crowd so invested in that version of the story?

Mmmm Why are you and your ilk so invested in believing that black children deserve to be assaulted and killed by police, whose job it is to protect and serve? Are you all so frightened?

 

[Ford]

Yes. Whether his attack was unprovoked or whether she tried to kick him is irrelevant. The level of force he used was inappropriate. He slammed a kid's face into the pavement, for fuck's sake.

You have no less right of self defense just because of the age of your attacker.

Have you ever fought a 12 year old?


I have.


And unlike this cop, I was not armed. I had no pepper spray, no taser, no handcuffs, and no hand to hand combat training.


I was also 12 years old.


I won...and it wasn't even a fight with a girl! The other kid was bigger than me, stronger than me, and had a penchant for beating up smaller kids...hence our confrontation.


Now we didn't have cops on the premises at Gilbert Junior High, but if we had, and one of them had come in to break up the epic brawl between me and Dave LeVan, it would have still been inappropriate for them to slam either me or Dave's face into the pavement.


Because we were kids. And that level of violence isn't justifiable when dealing with 12 year old kids.



What part of this is so difficult to understand?

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Cops don't just slam people to the ground if nothing is going on.

I've seen cops do just that because they don't like the look of somebody.

 

[laughing dog]

The most likely explanation is that she was attacking him--say, kicking.

Look at the video - she was being restrained and she was not kicking him. Try again.

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You have no less right of self defense just because of the age of your attacker.

He was not under attack. WTF is wrong with you?

 

[Ford]

Cops don't just slam people to the ground if nothing is going on.

I've seen cops do just that because they don't like the look of somebody.

I've seen this, too.


In college. I was at an apartment complex in an area notorious for out of control parties (our school even made the Playboy list of the top party colleges) and on that particular night (I believe it was homecoming) the police decided to show up and shut down the festivities. In full riot gear. Tear gas grenades and everything.

The apartments were set back a bit from the street, and most of us just stayed inside until everything blew over, but one guy walked out into the courtyard. We warned him against doing so, but he went anyway. So we're looking out the window, and he's standing there with his hands in his pockets not doing a goddamned thing. He's off the street, not involved in any shenanigans, and out of nowhere these cops (again, in riot gear) came into the courtyard and knocked him face first into the concrete.


They didn't arrest him. Didn't detain him. Didn't even stop to see if he was okay. Just assaulted him and moved on.



And he wasn't even a 12 year old girl.

 

[JonA]

She couldn't be telling the truth therefore she's lying?

Seems a little ridiculous...

I'm saying her version of events doesn't make sense. Cops don't just slam people to the ground if nothing is going on.

That sounds rather circular to me:

Why did he slam her to the ground?
Because she was 'doing something'.
How do we know she was 'doing something'?
Because he slammed her to the ground.​

The conclusion that what he did was warranted has to rest on more than the fact that he did it.

 

[Derec]

Yes. Whether his attack was unprovoked or whether she tried to kick him is irrelevant. The level of force he used was inappropriate.

Let's stipulate that he indeed did use a too high a force. Don't you think it makes a huge difference if he merely made an error in judgment in the heat of the moment during a legal and appropriate restraint of a suspect vs. that he attacked a 12 year old kid for no reason whatsoever? One deserves a reprimand, the other an assault and battery conviction.

He slammed a kid's face into the pavement, for fuck's sake.

I do not think that is relevant. When a cop is forced to use physical force to subdue a suspect often body parts will slam into the ground. That's why the family is so adamant that she was knocked unconscious - the take-down itself is not bad enough.

 

[Derec]

Mmmm Why are you and your ilk so invested in believing that black children deserve to be assaulted and killed by police, whose job it is to protect and serve? Are you all so frightened?

Who says she was black?
Also, why are you and your ilk so invested in believing the worst about cops, even going so far as believing everything the family tells the media? Are you all so frightened (of cops)?

 

[ZiprHead]

Yes. Whether his attack was unprovoked or whether she tried to kick him is irrelevant. The level of force he used was inappropriate. He slammed a kid's face into the pavement, for fuck's sake.

You have no less right of self defense just because of the age of your attacker.

Right, if it was a two year old kicking and screaming, I say throwing her to the concrete is completely justified.

 

[fast]

Nm

 

[ronburgundy]

He could have killed her with that kind of body slam to the pavement. The cop is either too unskilled, too weak, or too small to be a cop. A cop should be able to restrain an average female of her size. We need more stringent requirements of physical strength and technique. All cops should need to show they can effectively restrain at least an average sized male without resorting to slamming them to the ground. And yes, that will mean fewer female cops, and require that we pay them more than $25 per year in order to attract a sufficient number with the requisite physical strength and skills.

That said, other than that she is a minor under 18, the hyper-focus on her being 12 and a "preteen" is irrelevant emotionalism. She was almost as tall as the cop. Either he's a tiny cop or she is massive for a 12 year old. Give that video to 100 people without any prior info and most would guess 17-20 years old and likely none would guess 12. By definition, he did not have her restrained or she would not have been able to thrash like that and even drag him forward as she tried to get away. Of course, actual effective methods would have looked just as ugly and entailed bending her joints and a martial arts type take down that would still have the usual suspects outraged. But it wouldn't have caused a concussion and risked even more serious injury.