Another Fucking Mass Shooting At US School

[Derec]

With whom is this disagreement?
Certainly not me.

You have expressed support for banning guns on this thread. As have others, such as Toni.
And Dem politicians are certainly trying to ban certain guns.

"Banned outright" is a fringe idea, FAR more popular with the NRA and other gun nuts than with the people who are in favour of gun control.
It's a strawman.

Definitely not a strawman.

 

[Derec]

It's OK, you've convinced me. Handguns should be severely restricted, with few licences issued for them, and those limited to people who can show a genuine purpose for them that doesn't entail shooting at human beings.

So what other purpose is there? Other than maybe competitive shooting.
Even as you deny it, you do want to de facto ban guns.

"Self-defence" is a dumb and dangerous "reason" to own a firearm. Guns are not defensive weapons.

Actually they work quite well for the purpose. Example:
3 teens injured after trying to rob concealed carry license holder: Chicago police
If Lori Lightfoot and Kim Foxxx won't do shit about these thugs, then the people must do it themselves.

 

[bilby]

You have expressed support for banning guns on this thread.

At no point in this thread have I expressed support for "banning guns outright".

If you think I have, you'll have no problem quoting me doing so.

I note that you carefully skipped the word "outright" this time; Be careful with those goalposts, lift with your legs, not your back...

 

[bilby]

So what other purpose is there? Other than maybe competitive shooting.

Oh, look; You already knew the answer.

 

[Derec]

At no point in this thread have I expressed support for "banning guns outright".

Right. You want to keep them legal for competitive shooters only. Distinction without difference.

I note that you carefully skipped the word "outright" this time; Be careful with those goalposts, lift with your legs, not your back...

Ok, I will change it to "de facto" since you believe that carving a tiny exception does not mean you want to grab guns.

 

[Elixir]

I have shot them before, but I would not claim proficiency

Proficiency wasn’t the point. I don’t consider myself proficient by any means.
It’s about how much damage and how fast.
You or I could spray lead all over a room full of people and kill a bunch of them. Or wound a bunch of them and kill a few with a pistol.

 

[Toni]

I have shot them before, but I would not claim proficiency

Proficiency wasn’t the point. I don’t consider myself proficient by any means.
It’s about how much damage and how fast.
You or I could spray lead all over a room full of people and kill a bunch of them. Or wound a bunch of them and kill a few with a pistol.

I probably could as well. So could a lot of people. At least several times a year, a preschooler finds a loaded handgun and kills someone, usually a family member.

 

[ZiprHead]

I’m fairly certain Derec has never attained any proficiency with either a 19 or an AR. If he had, he’d know how expert you’d have to be to “accomplish” Uvalde, Sandy Hook or Parkland with a Glock.

I have shot them before, but I would not claim proficiency. But I guess you are some sort of expert marksman?
I do not think Seung-Hui Cho was any kind of firearms expert, and yet he killed 32 (+ himself) and wounded 17 with a Glock 19 and a Walther P22. So it is clearly doable to have a large body count with no rifles.

It's actually quite easy when you're the only person in the room with firearms and you've chained the doors shut so no one can leave.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The problem is your "concrete" point isn't--you act like we can cleanly divide guns into AR-15 and other.

Quibble quibble

You know damn good and well that it is possible to set parameters. You are just unwilling to actually advocate to eliminate the weapons frequently used to massacre school kids because it might probably SS off your gun nut friends.

We tried it. The gun makers simply made cosmetic changes so their products no longer met the definition. Why should we not expect the same result from trying it again?

By the industry and putting adequate laws in place. And fuck the NRA. Any legitimacy they once enjoyed has long since been squandered by their corruption —just like the GOP.

You're ignoring my point--there is no appreciable difference between many AR-15 type guns and many light hunting rifles other than the cosmetics. You can't make a law that bans one and not the other--an "assault weapons" ban is an exercise in futility because of this.

Then better laws can and should be written to allow hunting weapons and precious few beyond that use.

Still ignoring the point, I see.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And your side just ignores the fact that guns are the leading cause of death of children in the US and shrug your shoulders, quibble about what is and is not considered a child and act like it's no big deal. And you have a powerful lobby backed by Russia on your side so.......

And once again you ignore what we previously discussed. Most of those "children" are gangbangers.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You're ignoring my point--there is no appreciable difference between many AR-15 type guns and many light hunting rifles other than the cosmetics. You can't make a law that bans one and not the other--an "assault weapons" ban is an exercise in futility because of this.

What kind of hunting (other than humans) requires semi-auto action and super high velocity rounds?

The higher the velocity the more accurate the round. Hunting rifles typically have high velocities. Didn't take long with Google to find this:

Rifle Caliber Ballistics Performance Chart | Sportsman's Warehouse

Rifle caliber ballistics performance and usage chart. Select the correct rifle caliber and ammo for hunting small, medium and large game.

www.sportsmans.com

And the AR-15 is about middle of the pack for light rounds.

 

[Toni]

And your side just ignores the fact that guns are the leading cause of death of children in the US and shrug your shoulders, quibble about what is and is not considered a child and act like it's no big deal. And you have a powerful lobby backed by Russia on your side so.......

And once again you ignore what we previously discussed. Most of those "children" are gangbangers.

And you still dodge the question: How many kids under the age of 10 are you willing to sacrifice so a bunch of idiots can run around with their penis substitutes, just killing people?

Why aren't ALL people valuable enough to you to NOT lose their lives to gun violence?

Has it occurred to you that 'gangbangers' would kill fewer people with fewer guns? Do you see this as positive or not?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Super high velocity"? Really? The velocity of an AR15s is comparable to other similar rifles.
Muzzle velocity is a function of the projectile mass, powder load and barrel length. It has nothing to do with being a scary "assault weapon

Once again your ignorance is showing. AR and other large cartridge .223s have muzzle velocities in the 3300 fps range, whereas what used to be hunting rifles like 30-30 habe muzzle velocities closer to the 2300 fps range. Most important,

30-30 is a lot bigger bullet, expect it to go slower.

The wounds inflicted by AR and similar are on another order.
Your specious assertion that you could wreak similar damage with a Glock 19 is total bullshit.
View attachment 41539

Note that he's comparing a rifle with a handgun. A proper comparison would be with another rifle.

 

[Toni]

The problem is your "concrete" point isn't--you act like we can cleanly divide guns into AR-15 and other.

Quibble quibble

You know damn good and well that it is possible to set parameters. You are just unwilling to actually advocate to eliminate the weapons frequently used to massacre school kids because it might probably SS off your gun nut friends.

We tried it. The gun makers simply made cosmetic changes so their products no longer met the definition. Why should we not expect the same result from trying it again?

By the industry and putting adequate laws in place. And fuck the NRA. Any legitimacy they once enjoyed has long since been squandered by their corruption —just like the GOP.

You're ignoring my point--there is no appreciable difference between many AR-15 type guns and many light hunting rifles other than the cosmetics. You can't make a law that bans one and not the other--an "assault weapons" ban is an exercise in futility because of this.

Then better laws can and should be written to allow hunting weapons and precious few beyond that use.

Still ignoring the point, I see.

No Loren: that IS the point. Fewer guns = fewer people killed. I don't personally care if you think only the people that you don't consider worthwhile will die.

 

[Toni]

You're ignoring my point--there is no appreciable difference between many AR-15 type guns and many light hunting rifles other than the cosmetics. You can't make a law that bans one and not the other--an "assault weapons" ban is an exercise in futility because of this.

What kind of hunting (other than humans) requires semi-auto action and super high velocity rounds?

The higher the velocity the more accurate the round. Hunting rifles typically have high velocities. Didn't take long with Google to find this:

Rifle Caliber Ballistics Performance Chart | Sportsman's Warehouse

Rifle caliber ballistics performance and usage chart. Select the correct rifle caliber and ammo for hunting small, medium and large game.

www.sportsmans.com

And the AR-15 is about middle of the pack for light rounds.

Point? Aside from displaying your rad google skills?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Most people who die at the hands of guns know the person who kills them. Including 2 year olds.

No, not everything is Russia's fault but nonetheless, Russia has funded the NRA for some time now.

Doesn't mean they were friendly with the person who killed them. Most gang killings the people know each other.

 

[Toni]

Most people who die at the hands of guns know the person who kills them. Including 2 year olds.

No, not everything is Russia's fault but nonetheless, Russia has funded the NRA for some time now.

Doesn't mean they were friendly with the person who killed them. Most gang killings the people know each other.

So not the point, Loren. Most killings are not gang related.

But back to the question you keep dodging: How many kids under the age of 12 are you comfortable with being killed by guns, per annum?

 

[bilby]

And your side just ignores the fact that guns are the leading cause of death of children in the US and shrug your shoulders, quibble about what is and is not considered a child and act like it's no big deal. And you have a powerful lobby backed by Russia on your side so.......

And once again you ignore what we previously discussed. Most of those "children" are gangbangers.

Once again:

So. Fucking. What?

They are children, no matter what else they are.

Dead children don't stop being dead, nor stop being children, because they made the mistake of joining a criminal gang.

It's not an excuse for you to dismiss their deaths. It just isn't.

 

[laughing dog]

And your side just ignores the fact that guns are the leading cause of death of children in the US and shrug your shoulders, quibble about what is and is not considered a child and act like it's no big deal. And you have a powerful lobby backed by Russia on your side so.......

And once again you ignore what we previously discussed. Most of those "children" are gangbangers.

Once again:

So. Fucking. What?

They are children, no matter what else they are.

Dead children don't stop being dead, nor stop being children, because they made the mistake of joining a criminal gang.

It's not an excuse for you to dismiss their deaths. It just isn't.

"Gangbanger" is often a euphemism for person of color.

 

[Oleg]

It's not an excuse for you to dismiss their deaths. It just isn't.

Is he? All the blacks kids shot in Chicago, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and so forth. But no BLM or leftie protests. Politicians and activists silent. But if a career criminal dies of an overdose during an arrest, it’s pandemonium.