Are MAGA morons actually brainwashed?

[zorq]

You see terror. Rational people see security experts advising destruction as a viable way to prevent the exposure of classified information. Why do right wing nuts always think they are mind-readers?

Or do we see crimes taking place and leftists bending over backwards trying to exonerate their own party?

So you think Clinton should have fed-ex'ed her old phones to the Kremlin? Do you want Clinton to protect national secrets or not? Make up you mind.

 

[Half-Life]

You see terror. Rational people see security experts advising destruction as a viable way to prevent the exposure of classified information. Why do right wing nuts always think they are mind-readers?

Or do we see crimes taking place and leftists bending over backwards trying to exonerate their own party?

So you think Clinton should have fed-ex'ed her old phones to the Kremlin? Do you want Clinton to protect national secrets or not? Make up you mind.

I do want her to protect national secrets. But, the timing of all her destroying is quite coincidental with the subpoena.

 

[Axulus]

Trumpism fails many of the characteristics of a cult. Check out the BITE model by cult expert Steve Hassan. Trumpism fails most of these:

Behavior Control

1. Regulate individual’s physical reality
2. Dictate where, how, and with whom the member lives and associates or isolates
3. When, how and with whom the member has sex
4. Control types of clothing and hairstyles
5. Regulate diet - food and drink, hunger and/or fasting
6. Manipulation and deprivation of sleep
7. Financial exploitation, manipulation or dependence
8. Restrict leisure, entertainment, vacation time
9. Major time spent with group indoctrination and rituals and/or self indoctrination including the Internet
10. Permission required for major decisions
11. Thoughts, feelings, and activities (of self and others) reported to superiors
12. Rewards and punishments used to modify behaviors, both positive and negative
13. Discourage individualism, encourage group-think
14. Impose rigid rules and regulations
15. Instill dependency and obedience
16. Threaten harm to family and friends
17. Force individual to rape or be raped
18. Instill dependency and obedience
19. Encourage and engage in corporal punishment

Information Control
1. Deception:
a. Deliberately withhold information
b. Distort information to make it more acceptable
c. Systematically lie to the cult member
2. Minimize or discourage access to non-cult sources of information, including:
a. Internet, TV, radio, books, articles, newspapers, magazines, other media
b.Critical information
c. Former members
d. Keep members busy so they don’t have time to think and investigate
e. Control through cell phone with texting, calls, internet tracking
3. Compartmentalize information into Outsider vs. Insider doctrines
a. Ensure that information is not freely accessible
b.Control information at different levels and missions within group
c. Allow only leadership to decide who needs to know what and when
4. Encourage spying on other members
a. Impose a buddy system to monitor and control member
b.Report deviant thoughts, feelings and actions to leadership
c. Ensure that individual behavior is monitored by group
5. Extensive use of cult-generated information and propaganda, including:
a. Newsletters, magazines, journals, audiotapes, videotapes, YouTube, movies and other media
b.Misquoting statements or using them out of context from non-cult sources
6. Unethical use of confession
a. Information about sins used to disrupt and/or dissolve identity boundaries
b. Withholding forgiveness or absolution
c. Manipulation of memory, possible false memories

Thought Control
1. Require members to internalize the group’s doctrine as truth
a. Adopting the group's ‘map of reality’ as reality
b. Instill black and white thinking
c. Decide between good vs. evil
d. Organize people into us vs. them (insiders vs. outsiders)
2.Change person’s name and identity
3. Use of loaded language and clichés which constrict knowledge, stop critical thoughts and reduce complexities into platitudinous buzz words
4. Encourage only ‘good and proper’ thoughts
5. Hypnotic techniques are used to alter mental states, undermine critical thinking and even to age regress the member
6. Memories are manipulated and false memories are created
7. Teaching thought-stopping techniques which shut down reality testing by stopping negative thoughts and allowing only positive thoughts, including:
a. Denial, rationalization, justification, wishful thinking
b. Chanting
c. Meditating
d. Praying
e. Speaking in tongues
f. Singing or humming
8. Rejection of rational analysis, critical thinking, constructive criticism
9. Forbid critical questions about leader, doctrine, or policy allowed
10. Labeling alternative belief systems as illegitimate, evil, or not useful

Emotional Control
1. Manipulate and narrow the range of feelings – some emotions and/or needs are deemed as evil, wrong or selfish
2. Teach emotion-stopping techniques to block feelings of homesickness, anger, doubt
3. Make the person feel that problems are always their own fault, never the leader’s or the group’s fault
4. Promote feelings of guilt or unworthiness, such as
a. Identity guilt
b. You are not living up to your potential
c. Your family is deficient
d. Your past is suspect
e. Your affiliations are unwise
f. Your thoughts, feelings, actions are irrelevant or selfish
g. Social guilt
h. Historical guilt
5. Instill fear, such as fear of:
a. Thinking independently
b. The outside world
c. Enemies
d. Losing one’s salvation
e. Leaving or being shunned by the group
f. Other’s disapproval
6. Extremes of emotional highs and lows – love bombing and praise one moment and then declaring you are horrible sinner
7. Ritualistic and sometimes public confession of sins
8. Phobia indoctrination: inculcating irrational fears about leaving the group or questioning the leader’s authority
a. No happiness or fulfillment possible outside of the group
b. Terrible consequences if you leave: hell, demon possession, incurable diseases, accidents, suicide, insanity, 10,000 reincarnations, etc.
c. Shunning of those who leave; fear of being rejected by friends, peers, and family
d. Never a legitimate reason to leave; those who leave are weak, undisciplined, unspiritual, worldly, brainwashed by family or counselor, or seduced by money, sex, or rock and roll
e. Threats of harm to ex-member and family

http://old.freedomofmind.com/Info/BITE/bitemodel.php

 

[southernhybrid]

There are actually various ways to define a cult. Perhaps, rather than saying that Trump has formed a cult, it would be more accurate to say that Trump has a cult following. Elvis also had a cult following but he didn't do the type of damage than Trump is doing to the country. Not all Trump voters are part of his cult following but a good percentage of them are. They wear those stupid MAGA hats. They believe every lie that comes out of the mouth of dear leader. They praise him for everything he does and claims he does, even when it's not in their best interests. They love the pundits on Fox news, and ignorantly believe all their lies. That's a cult following.

 

[Elixir]

Trumpism fails many of the characteristics of a cult. Check out the BITE model by cult expert Steve Hassan. Trumpism fails most of these:

Behavior Control

1. Regulate individual’s physical reality
2. Dictate where, how, and with whom the member lives and associates or isolates
3. When, how and with whom the member has sex
4. Control types of clothing and hairstyles
5. Regulate diet - food and drink, hunger and/or fasting
6. Manipulation and deprivation of sleep
7. Financial exploitation, manipulation or dependence
8. Restrict leisure, entertainment, vacation time
9. Major time spent with group indoctrination and rituals and/or self indoctrination including the Internet
10. Permission required for major decisions
11. Thoughts, feelings, and activities (of self and others) reported to superiors
12. Rewards and punishments used to modify behaviors, both positive and negative
13. Discourage individualism, encourage group-think
14. Impose rigid rules and regulations
15. Instill dependency and obedience
16. Threaten harm to family and friends
17. Force individual to rape or be raped
18. Instill dependency and obedience
19. Encourage and engage in corporal punishment

Information Control
1. Deception:
a. Deliberately withhold information
b. Distort information to make it more acceptable
c. Systematically lie to the cult member
2. Minimize or discourage access to non-cult sources of information, including:
a. Internet, TV, radio, books, articles, newspapers, magazines, other media
b.Critical information
c. Former members
d. Keep members busy so they don’t have time to think and investigate
e. Control through cell phone with texting, calls, internet tracking
3. Compartmentalize information into Outsider vs. Insider doctrines
a. Ensure that information is not freely accessible
b.Control information at different levels and missions within group
c. Allow only leadership to decide who needs to know what and when
4. Encourage spying on other members
a. Impose a buddy system to monitor and control member
b.Report deviant thoughts, feelings and actions to leadership
c. Ensure that individual behavior is monitored by group
5. Extensive use of cult-generated information and propaganda, including:
a. Newsletters, magazines, journals, audiotapes, videotapes, YouTube, movies and other media
b.Misquoting statements or using them out of context from non-cult sources
6. Unethical use of confession
a. Information about sins used to disrupt and/or dissolve identity boundaries
b. Withholding forgiveness or absolution
c. Manipulation of memory, possible false memories

Thought Control
1. Require members to internalize the group’s doctrine as truth
a. Adopting the group's ‘map of reality’ as reality
b. Instill black and white thinking
c. Decide between good vs. evil
d. Organize people into us vs. them (insiders vs. outsiders)
2.Change person’s name and identity
3. Use of loaded language and clichés which constrict knowledge, stop critical thoughts and reduce complexities into platitudinous buzz words
4. Encourage only ‘good and proper’ thoughts
5. Hypnotic techniques are used to alter mental states, undermine critical thinking and even to age regress the member
6. Memories are manipulated and false memories are created
7. Teaching thought-stopping techniques which shut down reality testing by stopping negative thoughts and allowing only positive thoughts, including:
a. Denial, rationalization, justification, wishful thinking
b. Chanting
c. Meditating
d. Praying
e. Speaking in tongues
f. Singing or humming
8. Rejection of rational analysis, critical thinking, constructive criticism
9. Forbid critical questions about leader, doctrine, or policy allowed
10. Labeling alternative belief systems as illegitimate, evil, or not useful

Emotional Control
1. Manipulate and narrow the range of feelings – some emotions and/or needs are deemed as evil, wrong or selfish
2. Teach emotion-stopping techniques to block feelings of homesickness, anger, doubt
3. Make the person feel that problems are always their own fault, never the leader’s or the group’s fault
4. Promote feelings of guilt or unworthiness, such as
a. Identity guilt
b. You are not living up to your potential
c. Your family is deficient
d. Your past is suspect
e. Your affiliations are unwise
f. Your thoughts, feelings, actions are irrelevant or selfish
g. Social guilt
h. Historical guilt
5. Instill fear, such as fear of:
a. Thinking independently
b. The outside world
c. Enemies
d. Losing one’s salvation
e. Leaving or being shunned by the group
f. Other’s disapproval
6. Extremes of emotional highs and lows – love bombing and praise one moment and then declaring you are horrible sinner
7. Ritualistic and sometimes public confession of sins
8. Phobia indoctrination: inculcating irrational fears about leaving the group or questioning the leader’s authority
a. No happiness or fulfillment possible outside of the group
b. Terrible consequences if you leave: hell, demon possession, incurable diseases, accidents, suicide, insanity, 10,000 reincarnations, etc.
c. Shunning of those who leave; fear of being rejected by friends, peers, and family
d. Never a legitimate reason to leave; those who leave are weak, undisciplined, unspiritual, worldly, brainwashed by family or counselor, or seduced by money, sex, or rock and roll
e. Threats of harm to ex-member and family

http://old.freedomofmind.com/Info/BITE/bitemodel.php

Interesting list. I read the entire segment under "information control" and scanned the other sections. Didn't see anything that Trumputinism doesn't either do outright, or attempt to do in some form, except where such things as your cellphone are specifically referenced and the Trumputin administration uses less direct means to the end...

 

[Half-Life]

There are actually various ways to define a cult. Perhaps, rather than saying that Trump has formed a cult, it would be more accurate to say that Trump has a cult following. Elvis also had a cult following but he didn't do the type of damage than Trump is doing to the country. Not all Trump voters are part of his cult following but a good percentage of them are. They wear those stupid MAGA hats. They believe every lie that comes out of the mouth of dear leader. They praise him for everything he does and claims he does, even when it's not in their best interests. They love the pundits on Fox news, and ignorantly believe all their lies. That's a cult following.

You sound bitter when you bring up a MAGA hat. It's a HAT, people! A HAT!!!! How triggered can people get over a HAT?

I see a slogan wasn't a problem when Obama's minions were chanting "Yes, we can!" everywhere all the time.

 

[steve_bank]

There are actually various ways to define a cult. Perhaps, rather than saying that Trump has formed a cult, it would be more accurate to say that Trump has a cult following. Elvis also had a cult following but he didn't do the type of damage than Trump is doing to the country. Not all Trump voters are part of his cult following but a good percentage of them are. They wear those stupid MAGA hats. They believe every lie that comes out of the mouth of dear leader. They praise him for everything he does and claims he does, even when it's not in their best interests. They love the pundits on Fox news, and ignorantly believe all their lies. That's a cult following.

You sound bitter when you bring up a MAGA hat. It's a HAT, people! A HAT!!!! How triggered can people get over a HAT?

I see a slogan wasn't a problem when Obama's minions were chanting "Yes, we can!" everywhere all the time.

Slogans and polical motivation is niot inherently good ir bad. It is how propaganda is used.

Trump pushes conpsracy theories, rejcts climate change, and makes a repetive endless stream of outright falsehoods that his minions repeat.

Trump is a demagogue. I disagreed with Obama on many things, one thing he is not is a demagogue.

In case you do not know what that means.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demagogue

A demagogue /ˈdɛməɡɒɡ/ (from Greek δημαγωγός, a popular leader, a leader of a mob, from δῆμος, people, populace, the commons + ἀγωγός leading, leader)[1] or rabble-rouser[2][3] is a leader who gains popularity in a democracy by exploiting prejudice and ignorance among the common people, whipping up the passions of the crowd and shutting down reasoned deliberation.[1][4] Demagogues overturn established norms of political conduct, or promise or threaten to do so.[5]

Historian Reinhard Luthin defined demagogue thus: "What is a demagogue? He is a politician skilled in oratory, flattery and invective; evasive in discussing vital issues; promising everything to everybody; appealing to the passions rather than the reason of the public; and arousing racial, religious, and class prejudices—a man whose lust for power without recourse to principle leads him to seek to become a master of the masses. He has for centuries practiced his profession of 'man of the people'. He is a product of a political tradition nearly as old as western civilization itself."[6]

Demagogues have appeared in democracies since ancient Athens. They exploit a fundamental weakness in democracy: because ultimate power is held by the people, it is possible for the people to give that power to someone who appeals to the lowest common denominator of a large segment of the population.[7] Demagogues usually advocate immediate, forceful action to address a national crisis while accusing moderate and thoughtful opponents of weakness or disloyalty. Once elected to high executive office, demagogues typically unravel constitutional limits on executive power and attempt to convert their democracy to dictatorship.

 

[Half-Life]

There are actually various ways to define a cult. Perhaps, rather than saying that Trump has formed a cult, it would be more accurate to say that Trump has a cult following. Elvis also had a cult following but he didn't do the type of damage than Trump is doing to the country. Not all Trump voters are part of his cult following but a good percentage of them are. They wear those stupid MAGA hats. They believe every lie that comes out of the mouth of dear leader. They praise him for everything he does and claims he does, even when it's not in their best interests. They love the pundits on Fox news, and ignorantly believe all their lies. That's a cult following.

You sound bitter when you bring up a MAGA hat. It's a HAT, people! A HAT!!!! How triggered can people get over a HAT?

I see a slogan wasn't a problem when Obama's minions were chanting "Yes, we can!" everywhere all the time.

Slogans and polical motivation is niot inherently good ir bad. It is how propaganda is used.

Trump pushes conpsracy theories, rejcts climate change, and makes a repetive endless stream of outright falsehoods that his minions repeat.

Trump is a demagogue. I disagreed with Obama on many things, one thing he is not is a demagogue.

In case you do not know what that means.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demagogue

A demagogue /ˈdɛməɡɒɡ/ (from Greek δημαγωγός, a popular leader, a leader of a mob, from δῆμος, people, populace, the commons + ἀγωγός leading, leader)[1] or rabble-rouser[2][3] is a leader who gains popularity in a democracy by exploiting prejudice and ignorance among the common people, whipping up the passions of the crowd and shutting down reasoned deliberation.[1][4] Demagogues overturn established norms of political conduct, or promise or threaten to do so.[5]

Historian Reinhard Luthin defined demagogue thus: "What is a demagogue? He is a politician skilled in oratory, flattery and invective; evasive in discussing vital issues; promising everything to everybody; appealing to the passions rather than the reason of the public; and arousing racial, religious, and class prejudices—a man whose lust for power without recourse to principle leads him to seek to become a master of the masses. He has for centuries practiced his profession of 'man of the people'. He is a product of a political tradition nearly as old as western civilization itself."[6]

Demagogues have appeared in democracies since ancient Athens. They exploit a fundamental weakness in democracy: because ultimate power is held by the people, it is possible for the people to give that power to someone who appeals to the lowest common denominator of a large segment of the population.[7] Demagogues usually advocate immediate, forceful action to address a national crisis while accusing moderate and thoughtful opponents of weakness or disloyalty. Once elected to high executive office, demagogues typically unravel constitutional limits on executive power and attempt to convert their democracy to dictatorship.

Not everyone agrees with climate change. Michael Knowles destroyed a geologist who believed in climate change. In the 1970's the scientists warned us about spooky global cooling. It was gonna be another ice age by the year 2000. When that didn't happen, they said "oh now it's warming! It's getting too hot!" When that didn't happen, they started saying "Well, it's climate change and we're gonna be dead in 12 years." What's gonna be the new excuse in 2031 when we're not all dead? Al Gore telling us we need to do something while he has 10 SUV's and private jets. How many SUV's did early man give up to avoid the previous ice age?

Conservatives can see through see these obvious fear mongering lies.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You realize back then people routinely deleted old e-mail from servers to keep the storage requirements down? (These days hard drives have grown so much it's not nearly the issue it used to be.)

And using a hammer is the proper means of disposing of old flash devices that contain sensitive data. At her level, new phone, smash the old one. No method short of destruction ensures the complete erasure of a flash memory device.

Can you imagine all the terror you must be hiding in order to have to use a hammer to smash the thing to bits? I got a bunch of old flash drives by my computer. Never once thought to start smashing them all with a hammer.

It's not something I would do, either. The problem is you don't understand that just because it's not a precaution we need to take personally doesn't mean it's not a precaution that nobody needs to take. We aren't big fish, the FIS or the MSS aren't going to have any interest in our old phones. A black hat simply after bank passwords can't afford the facility needed to try to recover data from a phone that has been reset. Thus, for us the threat level is zero. I don't even mind carrying my phone & laptop into China--MSS isn't going to black-bag our hotel room because I work for a small company with no IP of any use to China, nor would hacking my machine to gain entry to their network yield anything of value to them. (Not that that would even work--it's been years since my machine was on their network.) Now, if I worked for someone like Microsoft it would be a very different story--a dedicated machine for travel there, it would contain nothing of value and would forever after be considered untrustworthy.

 

[zorq]

So you think Clinton should have fed-ex'ed her old phones to the Kremlin? Do you want Clinton to protect national secrets or not? Make up you mind.

I do want her to protect national secrets. But, the timing of all her destroying is quite coincidental with the subpoena.

Her subpoenas happened after her term as Secretary of State had finished. Her aids claim that the phones were destroyed while she was still Secretary of state. The timing is not suspicious.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You see terror. Rational people see security experts advising destruction as a viable way to prevent the exposure of classified information. Why do right wing nuts always think they are mind-readers?

Or do we see crimes taking place and leftists bending over backwards trying to exonerate their own party?

The thing is you are seeing these things out of context.

Smashing a storage device is not something we would normally do. The idea seems loony to you--but my field is computers. While I'm a software guy I know something of the hardware and in many aspects it's a software issue anyway.

I'm sure you are aware of the existence of undelete programs. Those exploit the fact that when files are "deleted" they are merely marked as deleted and the space released, they are not truly wiped. Undelete programs exploit this and may be able to restore the file. They are quite simple, relying on the basically intact directory entry still being there.

What you probably don't realize is that this is merely scratching the surface. For example, I had a controller card pull a major barf and obliterate the start of every drive connected to it. When the drives were connected by other means they showed as uninitialized. They were part of a RAID array, the controller had written a control structure and moved the partition--simply recreating the partition would not produce useful data. But there are tools out there that will search the whole drive for things that appear to be a partition. The data was still there. Likewise, there are tools that will search the drive for anything that appears to be a directory--even with the root gone they'll find subdirectories and anything inside them. There are also tools that search for photos--find blocks that appear to be a photo and then look for other blocks that work with them to produce a coherent image file.

Back in the mists of time when storage devices were small I even did it manually many times. Back in college most of the students were using a backup program with a horrible design flaw that could cause a miskey to wipe out the source floppy. It would be empty even to undelete tools. When a student came to me (I was working as a lab assistant) in a panic over this (they lost their work for the semester) I decided to see what I could do--purely manual, all I had was a sector editor but it turned out to be enough. I recovered everything of importance. Of course word got around, I recovered enough files that it became routine. (It was even kind of fun watching them freak out at first--it was a lot easier to have them identify what each piece was. They would always think it was impossible when I brought up a screen of gibberish, but when I showed them the words embedded in the gibberish they would get the idea and pretty quickly start identifying what assignment each piece appeared to be.)

At the level of a flash device there once again is a separation between deleting and actually getting rid of it. When the computer says to delete a page the device notes that fact but it's own controller decides when to actually wipe it. Until that actual wipe has been done the data is still there.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So you think Clinton should have fed-ex'ed her old phones to the Kremlin? Do you want Clinton to protect national secrets or not? Make up you mind.

I do want her to protect national secrets. But, the timing of all her destroying is quite coincidental with the subpoena.

Timing? What information do we have on when the phones were destroyed? All we know is at a certain point in time they had been destroyed. I have seen nothing about this that is not consistent with them simply being destroyed when replaced.

 

[Elixir]

So you think Clinton should have fed-ex'ed her old phones to the Kremlin? Do you want Clinton to protect national secrets or not? Make up you mind.

I do want her to protect national secrets. But, the timing of all her destroying is quite coincidental with the subpoena.

Timing? What information do we have on when the phones were destroyed? All we know is at a certain point in time they had been destroyed. I have seen nothing about this that is not consistent with them simply being destroyed when replaced.

Pfffft. She should have simply invited some Russian intelligence operatives into the oval office and started spitting out top secret information, as well as its means and methods of collection.
You know, like CHEATO (the guy who happens to be the current president) did?

 

[steve_bank]

Slogans and polical motivation is niot inherently good ir bad. It is how propaganda is used.

Trump pushes conpsracy theories, rejcts climate change, and makes a repetive endless stream of outright falsehoods that his minions repeat.

Trump is a demagogue. I disagreed with Obama on many things, one thing he is not is a demagogue.

In case you do not know what that means.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demagogue

A demagogue /ˈdɛməɡɒɡ/ (from Greek δημαγωγός, a popular leader, a leader of a mob, from δῆμος, people, populace, the commons + ἀγωγός leading, leader)[1] or rabble-rouser[2][3] is a leader who gains popularity in a democracy by exploiting prejudice and ignorance among the common people, whipping up the passions of the crowd and shutting down reasoned deliberation.[1][4] Demagogues overturn established norms of political conduct, or promise or threaten to do so.[5]

Historian Reinhard Luthin defined demagogue thus: "What is a demagogue? He is a politician skilled in oratory, flattery and invective; evasive in discussing vital issues; promising everything to everybody; appealing to the passions rather than the reason of the public; and arousing racial, religious, and class prejudices—a man whose lust for power without recourse to principle leads him to seek to become a master of the masses. He has for centuries practiced his profession of 'man of the people'. He is a product of a political tradition nearly as old as western civilization itself."[6]

Demagogues have appeared in democracies since ancient Athens. They exploit a fundamental weakness in democracy: because ultimate power is held by the people, it is possible for the people to give that power to someone who appeals to the lowest common denominator of a large segment of the population.[7] Demagogues usually advocate immediate, forceful action to address a national crisis while accusing moderate and thoughtful opponents of weakness or disloyalty. Once elected to high executive office, demagogues typically unravel constitutional limits on executive power and attempt to convert their democracy to dictatorship.

Not everyone agrees with climate change. Michael Knowles destroyed a geologist who believed in climate change. In the 1970's the scientists warned us about spooky global cooling. It was gonna be another ice age by the year 2000. When that didn't happen, they said "oh now it's warming! It's getting too hot!" When that didn't happen, they started saying "Well, it's climate change and we're gonna be dead in 12 years." What's gonna be the new excuse in 2031 when we're not all dead? Al Gore telling us we need to do something while he has 10 SUV's and private jets. How many SUV's did early man give up to avoid the previous ice age?

Conservatives can see through see these obvious fear mongering lies.

Some people believe them Egyptian pyramids were built by ET even when construction techniques have been demonstrated.

You represent the ignorance of the people Trump plays to. You are unable to reason it out for your self so you repeat arguments from places like FOX.

By the way, the same kind of science that predicts local weather and courses of hurricanes is used to model climate change and future weather. There are some who argue against it, but it is a small number. The only real debate is the minimum and maximum severity predictions. Climate change is upon us. Islands are going under. Miami is moving inland in some places.

I have the science and science experience to understand it. All's it takes to have a basic understanding is freshman physics class and a thermodynamics class, usually sop more year. . There is a book Thermodynamics For Dummies. Give it a try.

You are pretty much mouthing Trump on climate. Do you know the difference between climate and weather? Do you understand what drives ocean currents and what role currents play in weather? Not likely.

Conservatives based on reporting are well aware. They afraid of alienating Trump supported as they face election. Another aspect of demagoguery.


I listened to Tucker Carlson talk with somebody on FOX about the metric system and why they think it is a bad idea. The supposed expert did not know how the meter is defined and that it is the global standard in engineering and science. Yet there are still 'metric deniers'....

I won't be around to see it. At some point Trump's young son will be able to tie up his yacht at Trump Tower in Manhattan.

I do not know how many cars he has, but there is plenty of hypocrisy to go around on both sodes.

Before pollution controls on cars visibility was limited by smog in La. I remember a big tempura inversion in the NYC metro area in the 60s. Clear skies but it got dimmer day by day. There were pollution deniers back then. There were credentialed scientists who argued smoking was not bad for you.

Climate change deniers are opportunists cashing in the debate. Sell books, give talks for money. ander to the ignorant.

 

[Ford]

Slogans and polical motivation is niot inherently good ir bad. It is how propaganda is used.

Trump pushes conpsracy theories, rejcts climate change, and makes a repetive endless stream of outright falsehoods that his minions repeat.

Trump is a demagogue. I disagreed with Obama on many things, one thing he is not is a demagogue.

In case you do not know what that means.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demagogue

A demagogue /ˈdɛməɡɒɡ/ (from Greek δημαγωγός, a popular leader, a leader of a mob, from δῆμος, people, populace, the commons + ἀγωγός leading, leader)[1] or rabble-rouser[2][3] is a leader who gains popularity in a democracy by exploiting prejudice and ignorance among the common people, whipping up the passions of the crowd and shutting down reasoned deliberation.[1][4] Demagogues overturn established norms of political conduct, or promise or threaten to do so.[5]

Historian Reinhard Luthin defined demagogue thus: "What is a demagogue? He is a politician skilled in oratory, flattery and invective; evasive in discussing vital issues; promising everything to everybody; appealing to the passions rather than the reason of the public; and arousing racial, religious, and class prejudices—a man whose lust for power without recourse to principle leads him to seek to become a master of the masses. He has for centuries practiced his profession of 'man of the people'. He is a product of a political tradition nearly as old as western civilization itself."[6]

Demagogues have appeared in democracies since ancient Athens. They exploit a fundamental weakness in democracy: because ultimate power is held by the people, it is possible for the people to give that power to someone who appeals to the lowest common denominator of a large segment of the population.[7] Demagogues usually advocate immediate, forceful action to address a national crisis while accusing moderate and thoughtful opponents of weakness or disloyalty. Once elected to high executive office, demagogues typically unravel constitutional limits on executive power and attempt to convert their democracy to dictatorship.

Not everyone agrees with climate change. Michael Knowles destroyed a geologist who believed in climate change. In the 1970's the scientists warned us about spooky global cooling. It was gonna be another ice age by the year 2000. When that didn't happen, they said "oh now it's warming! It's getting too hot!" When that didn't happen, they started saying "Well, it's climate change and we're gonna be dead in 12 years." What's gonna be the new excuse in 2031 when we're not all dead? Al Gore telling us we need to do something while he has 10 SUV's and private jets. How many SUV's did early man give up to avoid the previous ice age?

Conservatives can see through see these obvious fear mongering lies.

Some people believe them Egyptian pyramids were built by ET even when construction techniques have been demonstrated.

A Cabinet Secretary in the current administration believes they were just grain elevators.

 

[Worldtraveller]

So, to answer the question posted by the thread title. I would say "yes".

Exhibit A: Half-life's posts.

 

[RVonse]

You realize back then people routinely deleted old e-mail from servers to keep the storage requirements down? (These days hard drives have grown so much it's not nearly the issue it used to be.)

And using a hammer is the proper means of disposing of old flash devices that contain sensitive data. At her level, new phone, smash the old one. No method short of destruction ensures the complete erasure of a flash memory device.

Can you imagine all the terror you must be hiding in order to have to use a hammer to smash the thing to bits? I got a bunch of old flash drives by my computer. Never once thought to start smashing them all with a hammer.

You see terror. Rational people see security experts advising destruction as a viable way to prevent the exposure of classified information. Why do right wing nuts always think they are mind-readers?

You cant have it both ways though. You cant use your same mouth to call it rational security behavior but then also say she was only guilty of poor judgement with data security.

 

[AirPoh]

Is it possible that some of us simply voted for Trump because he best represented what our own particular interests were? And that I felt that "making America great again" was more noble than following "Im with the crooked Hillary" crowd? Somehow MAGA just sounded better to me.

Or was I a part of the Obama cult when I voted for him instead of McCain? At the time I thought I voted for Obama because he was going to save what was left of my job at Chrysler Corporation. I did not think that self preservation of my pension meant I was part of a conspiracy cult with Obama and his change movement.

We are all different people with different jobs, viewpoints and values. And that does not mean we are cult members when we vote for "the other guy". It just makes us Americans voting for our own self interest and nothing more than that.

It's certainly possible that you were brainwashed into believing "because he best represented what our own particular interests were"

 

[RVonse]

Is it possible that some of us simply voted for Trump because he best represented what our own particular interests were? And that I felt that "making America great again" was more noble than following "Im with the crooked Hillary" crowd? Somehow MAGA just sounded better to me.

Or was I a part of the Obama cult when I voted for him instead of McCain? At the time I thought I voted for Obama because he was going to save what was left of my job at Chrysler Corporation. I did not think that self preservation of my pension meant I was part of a conspiracy cult with Obama and his change movement.

We are all different people with different jobs, viewpoints and values. And that does not mean we are cult members when we vote for "the other guy". It just makes us Americans voting for our own self interest and nothing more than that.

It's certainly possible that you were brainwashed into believing "because he best represented what our own particular interests were"

Well then Im certainly glad I got brainwashed with Trump along with others. The brainwashing has affected both my bank account and employment in a very positive direction not seen during Obama's last term.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

The brainwashing has affected both my bank account and employment in a very positive direction not seen during Obama's last term.

How? Considering An A- for the U.S. Economy, but Failing Grades for Trump’s Policies.

In short, he hasn't done anything positive for the economy (quite the opposite in fact), so, unless you're a multi-millionaire and are referring to tax breaks you didn't need and that fucked us all further, anything that may have affected your bank account or employment would have been exclusively initiated under Obama:

Mr. Trump’s luck was to inherit an economy that had been on a steadily improving glide path since around 2010. Charting nearly any economic statistic shows that today’s economic strength represents a continuation of that trend.

Even if Mr. Trump doesn’t deserve credit for this trajectory, he should get some credit for not knocking the economy off this path. Unless, of course, the real explanation is that the president doesn’t have much effect on economic outcomes.

The more frightening explanation is that the downside of Mr. Trump’s policies are yet to become evident. The chaos of his administration’s policy process has created uncertainty and probably scared off some investors, although their absence is difficult to measure. In addition, Mr. Trump’s unfunded tax cuts are creating a debt that future generations will have to repay. And by undermining the Fed’s independence, he may have made it less effective at fighting inflation.

That’s not all.

Cutting regulations in the financial sector may help big banks today, but it could increase the chances of future financial crises. Eliminating environmental regulations has probably improved results for some businesses while speeding climate change. And while impeding immigration may have reduced competition for jobs, many economists worry that in the longer run, reducing the number of immigrants will lead to less innovation and growth.

In regard to Trump's "fiscal policy" (if it can even be called that):

The logic of fiscal policy is straightforward: In good times, the government should spend less, so that in bad times it can afford to spend more and tax less, helping to support an ailing economy. When private-sector demand falls, government picks up the slack.

On this score, Mr. Trump’s fiscal policy is a colossal failure. His signature achievement is a $1.5 trillion tax cut that provided stimulus when, arguably, it was least needed. As a result, the budget deficit is atypically high for a healthy economy, and rising government debt will make it hard for fiscal policy to provide a boost when the next downturn hits.

Mr. Trump might argue that the point of the tax cut wasn’t to provide a short-term stimulus, but rather to promote long-term economic growth. However, economists say that it will fail to do that, too. In a survey before the bill was passed, all but one expert said the tax cut wouldn’t lead gross domestic product “to be substantially higher a decade from now.” Darrell Duffie, the lone dissenter, said it would boost growth, but he added that “whether the overall tax plan is distributionally fair is another matter.”

The problem, according to Daron Acemoglu, a prominent macroeconomist, is that while “simplification of the tax code could be beneficial,” that effect would most likely be “more than offset by its highly regressive nature.” Recent data support this pessimism, as the much-promised investment boom the tax cut was supposed to deliver appears not to have materialized.

It is worth noting that the one part of Mr. Trump’s platform that received a strong endorsement from economists — his promise of infrastructure spending — has languished, despite the possibility of bipartisan support.

And I won't even get started on the devastating trade wars with China that are going to blow up over the next two to ten years in ways no one can even track, let alone predict.