Biden Pardons Hunter

[Loren Pechtel]

You are suggesting that the FBI entrapped thousands of idiot Trump supporters who got all caught up in the whirlwind of revolution.

Yes. And I can think of many examples in my own adolescent life when this happened. When I got into trouble for "following the leader" doing something I would not normally have cared or been motivated to involve myself in. Not crimes mind you, but my parents were not pleased when they found out.

To use an entrapment defense you need to identify the means by which it happened--identify the agent responsible and what they did. Who is this deep state plant that they were following??? The only one I see is The Felon himself.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You are suggesting that the FBI entrapped thousands of idiot Trump supporters who got all caught up in the whirlwind of revolution.

Yes.

But you struggle with the whole several speeches by Trump and his allies prior to the US Capitol riot having a substantial impact, as well as the entire lead up to the whole thing?

You familiar with Occam's Razor?

Surely he is, and figures the simplest explanation for all known facts is “the deep state is out to get trump”.
Good luck explaining why that’s not the case. You’re trying to get an evangelical to understand that the Bible is not a magic book.

The problem with the god did it approaches is that they're just packaging all the complexity into one item and dismissing it. No, if you want to invoke the deep state as the cause then you need to explain the deep state--and not just with a handwave.

 

[Torin]

The situation changed.

Had Harris won I would object to the pardon. But with The Felon winning I believe it was the correct course of action.

No, the situation didn't change in any relevant way.

If Biden intended to pardon Hunter in the event that The Orange One was elected to the Presidency, he could have conveyed that to the American people. It was obviously a possibility all along that Trump would win. Instead, Biden repeatedly said that he would not pardon Hunter. If Biden had a secret intention to pardon Hunter in the event of a Trump victory (as I suppose he may have), he nevertheless lied, repeatedly.

You can think that Trump is engaged in a witch hunt, and also think that it is a big deal that Biden lied about this. There are Democratic leaders in high places who think exactly that.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Why should the 1/6ers be pardoned?

Because there is a lot of suspicion that the deep state was heavily involved with Jan 6. I posted a video earlier and Joe Rogan who explains it much better and detail than I can. You and others can dismiss Joe Rogan if you want, but there are a lot of people who agree with this sentiment right now.

Most of the rank and file of those agencies are probably honest but the people at the top are corrupt.

Suspicion is not enough to overturn a conviction. And if the best evidence is a Joe Rogan video then it’s going to be tough to convince a judge tonight overturn.

Do you think Joe Rogan would be willing to testify under oath in court attesting to evidence that would exonerate the Jan 6 perpetrators?

 

[Shadowy Man]

Violence that Trump specifically warned not for them to engage in during his speach.

That never happened.

Exact words from his speech:

I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.

and exactly how many seconds did it take Trump to reach out to his supporters to stop after finding out they were not peacefully making their voices heard? Hundreds? Thousands? Tens of thousands?

If his intent was to “specifically warn” his supporters to not engage in violence, he did an extremely poor job at it.

 

[Shadowy Man]

it sounds like he's drawing out the legal process. His fault plan.

FIFY.
Six more weeks and he'll be a free bird, announcing his triumph over injustice to a sea of eager microphones.

Yes. He quite likely realized that his prison term should he actually go to trial would be substantially longer than the period of time he’s been waiting in jail delaying his trial. It looks like he was gambling on Trump returning to the Presidency and I guess we will soon see how well that gamble paid off.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The Press is going about this like it was Ford's pardon of Nixon!

If he didn't want it to be a big deal, he shouldn't have made such a big deal about promising the press and the American public that he wasn't going to do this, then doing it anyway. That said, I do think there's a double standard at play, given that Trump overtly sells pardons en masse to his friends and underlings, a much more gross ethical violation.

I oppose "blank check" pardons on general principle, and wish the Supreme Court would step in on the matter. But of course, we barely have one at present.

The situation changed.

Had Harris won I would object to the pardon. But with The Felon winning I believe it was the correct course of action.

A very convincing point further demonstrating how rule of law is indeed flexible depending on our political landscape.

The problem is The Felon has made it very clear he intends witch hunts, not justice. Your scumbag is the one who changed the landscape.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And I think the firearm issue he was convicted on should not be law in the first place.

I disagree with this.
There's lots of people who shouldn't be allowed gun permits. Mainly people who have committed violent crimes.
Hunter is not one of them, but you gotta draw a line somewhere.
Tom

Context!

What I'm objecting to is the specifics: the question on the gun form about drugs. That's what I think should go. Guns and drugs do not mix--but that most certainly applies to alcohol, yet there's no question on the form about alcohol use. Someone who is legally using heavy opiates isn't denied, but someone who is occasionally using weed is.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

In theory, an innocent person should not be afraid of the law since they should have nothing to hide. But in practice, everyone should be afraid of law and scrutiny since we are all breaking some kind of law (there are so many of them now) if the government wants to pursue ruining someone.

But that effect worked more in Biden's favor than Trump's because he was more experienced controlling the deep state.

And you're completely missing the point.

Yes, the justice system isn't perfect. The problem is that The Felon intends to weaponize it.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Duh, he's trying to prevent any witch hunts about the laptop.

WHOOOSH!
That has been pointed out six different ways, to no avail. If Joe's pardon has any holes in it, Cheato will spend most of the next four years trying to exploit them.

No whoosh, I'm just joining the chorus.

 

[RVonse]

In theory, an innocent person should not be afraid of the law since they should have nothing to hide. But in practice, everyone should be afraid of law and scrutiny since we are all breaking some kind of law (there are so many of them now) if the government wants to pursue ruining someone.

But that effect worked more in Biden's favor than Trump's because he was more experienced controlling the deep state.

And you're completely missing the point.

Yes, the justice system isn't perfect. The problem is that The Felon intends to weaponize it.

Both sides weaponize it. You don't think the law has been weaponized against Trump? Then you are not paying attention to 34 felonies for the same crime. Thankfully the voters recognized this even though you haven't.

 

[bilby]

You are suggesting that the FBI entrapped thousands of idiot Trump supporters who got all caught up in the whirlwind of revolution.

But you won't consider Trump lied his ass off about the election being stolen, which would be apparent by his lack of trying to contest any actual claims in court.

You have a valid point about Trump not contesting actual claims in court. But Trump lying about a stolen election is a different thing altogether with the violence that occurred on Jan 6. Violence that Trump specifically warned not for them to engage in during his speach.

"Your honour, it is absurd to suggest that my client was involved in the arson; We have all heard the recording, in which he says that the complainant has a 'nice building', and that it would be 'a shame if something happened to it'. He specifically said those complimentary things about the building, so we would be foolish to believe that he wanted to burn it down".

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Had Harris won I would object to the pardon. But with The Felon winning I believe it was the correct course of action.

So you're just... openly partisan, rather than having any sort of consistent principles? This sort of hypocritical posturing is exactly what I hate about the party system: I refuse to reverse my supposed political positions every four or eight years depending on who's in power.

Has nothing to do with partisan. It has everything to do with witch hunting.

 

[RVonse]

It has everything to do with witch hunting.

Which both sides do and have done in the past.

 

[TomC]

It has everything to do with witch hunting.

Which both sides do and have done in the past.

Could you be more specific?

Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It has everything to do with witch hunting.

Which both sides do and have done in the past.

Most notable witch hunts in US history have come from the conservatives.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

In theory, an innocent person should not be afraid of the law since they should have nothing to hide. But in practice, everyone should be afraid of law and scrutiny since we are all breaking some kind of law (there are so many of them now) if the government wants to pursue ruining someone.

But that effect worked more in Biden's favor than Trump's because he was more experienced controlling the deep state.

And you're completely missing the point.

Yes, the justice system isn't perfect. The problem is that The Felon intends to weaponize it.

Both sides weaponize it. You don't think the law has been weaponized against Trump? Then you are not paying attention to 34 felonies for the same crime.

Your honor, this is an outrage! How can I possibly have 40 outstanding speeding tickets if I only violated one law?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

In theory, an innocent person should not be afraid of the law since they should have nothing to hide. But in practice, everyone should be afraid of law and scrutiny since we are all breaking some kind of law (there are so many of them now) if the government wants to pursue ruining someone.

But that effect worked more in Biden's favor than Trump's because he was more experienced controlling the deep state.

And you're completely missing the point.

Yes, the justice system isn't perfect. The problem is that The Felon intends to weaponize it.

Both sides weaponize it. You don't think the law has been weaponized against Trump? Then you are not paying attention to 34 felonies for the same crime. Thankfully the voters recognized this even though you haven't.

I don't see the weaponization against The Felon.

Yes, it was a bit of a reach on the hush money payments--but it's not exactly unusual for prosecutors to do what they can to charge when the normal charge is not available for some reason. As in this case--it's a slam dunk on the misdemeanors except the statute of limitations expired. For a prosecutor to engage in contortions in such a case is not evidence of weaponization.

And it's not 34 felonies for the same crime. Remember, the hush money per se was legal, he wasn't charged about it. The crime was the bookkeeping fraud to cover it up--and that was split into 34 pieces, thus 34 charges. The fact that it was one overall act would be relevant to sentencing, not to conviction.

 

[RVonse]

It has everything to do with witch hunting.

Which both sides do and have done in the past.

Could you be more specific?

Tom

Just off the top of my head, witch hunting against Trump

1) Russia investigation based on a fake Hillary dossier
2) 3 impeachments that went no where but done anyway
3) Trump being found guilty taking advantage of a bank who was happy with outcome with (no victim)
4) Trump being found guilty for hiding classified papers just like Biden was found innocent doing the same thing (unequal justice)

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It has everything to do with witch hunting.

Which both sides do and have done in the past.

Could you be more specific?

Tom

Just off the top of my head, witch hunting against Trump

1) Russia investigation based on a fake Hillary dossier

Dossier was real not fake. Information in the dossier was of unknown legitimacy. It was Trump's firing of a few people that led to an investigation as Trump was acting weird.

2) 3 impeachments that went no where but done anyway

You misspelled 2. One was around Trump impounding funding and trying to get a quid-pro-quo from the Ukrainian President (in the form of announcing a fake investigation into Biden) for military support already passed by Congress. The second one was when he helped create a riot at the US Capitol, that he egged on on social media, violating his oath to the Constitution.

3) Trump being found guilty taking advantage of a bank who was happy with outcome with (no victim)

The victims would be the other customers.

4) Trump being found guilty for hiding classified papers just like Biden was found innocent doing the same thing (unequal justice)

Trump was never found guilty of hiding classified papers. He hid classified papers. He obstructed the reacquisition of classified papers. There was no trial because the judge in charge of it is a damn stooge.