Biden Pardons Hunter

[Elixir]

You are suggesting that the FBI entrapped thousands of idiot Trump supporters who got all caught up in the whirlwind of revolution.

Yes.

But you struggle with the whole several speeches by Trump and his allies prior to the US Capitol riot having a substantial impact, as well as the entire lead up to the whole thing?

You familiar with Occam's Razor?

Surely he is, and figures the simplest explanation for all known facts is “the deep state is out to get trump”.
Good luck explaining why that’s not the case. You’re trying to get an evangelical to understand that the Bible is not a magic book.

 

[RVonse]

Violence that Trump specifically warned not for them to engage in during his speach.

That never happened.

Exact words from his speech:

I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.

The entire transcript here: https://www.npr.org/2021/02/10/966396848/read-trumps-jan-6-speech-a-key-part-of-impeachment-trial

 

[Elixir]

You are suggesting that the FBI entrapped thousands of idiot Trump supporters who got all caught up in the whirlwind of revolution.

But you won't consider Trump lied his ass off about the election being stolen, which would be apparent by his lack of trying to contest any actual claims in court.

You have a valid point about Trump not contesting actual claims in court. But Trump lying about a stolen election is a different thing altogether with the violence that occurred on Jan 6. Violence that Trump specifically warned not for them to engage in during his speach.

Yeah “FIGHT LIKE HELL OR YOU WONT HAVE A COUNTRY ANY MORE!!”
So they did, just like good little sheeples.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The pardon may not mean much since Trump can just reverse it in his next term. Yeah Biden has "immunity" now but so does Trump, so all that's going to happen is the pardon is going to be overridden because Trump will have absolute power and no one gives a shit.

A pardon can be reversed? I did not know that. How does that work if Hunter's pardon is reversed by Trump? Does that mean Hunter is back into legal jeapordy again with his conviction?

Another question after reading this thread I am wondering about now. If a president pardons a family member for any and all crimes he could ever be charged with, what happens if Hunter goes out and kills someone? Can Hunter now break any and all laws and still stay out of prison?

Personally I have mixed feeling over this. For those of you who do feel it is proper to pardon Hunter you should be equally eager to see Trump giving out any pardons for the Jan 6 rioters. Because both are excellent examples of highly politically influenced prosecutions. One can not agree with one without being in favor of the other.

Of course human beings can prefer one and not the other. Not only are the two not exactly equivalent, but people are not required to be logically consistent.

While I think commuting the sentences and letting the conviction stand would have been a better option than a full pardon, this is really a nothing burger in my view.

Given The Felon's announced intention of witch hunting I think Biden should be quite liberal in pardoning those who appear to be witch hunt targets.

And I think the firearm issue he was convicted on should not be law in the first place.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The Press is going about this like it was Ford's pardon of Nixon!

If he didn't want it to be a big deal, he shouldn't have made such a big deal about promising the press and the American public that he wasn't going to do this, then doing it anyway. That said, I do think there's a double standard at play, given that Trump overtly sells pardons en masse to his friends and underlings, a much more gross ethical violation.

I oppose "blank check" pardons on general principle, and wish the Supreme Court would step in on the matter. But of course, we barely have one at present.

The situation changed.

Had Harris won I would object to the pardon. But with The Felon winning I believe it was the correct course of action.

 

[TomC]

Given The Felon's announced intention of witch hunting I think Biden should be quite liberal in pardoning those who appear to be witch hunt targets.

Lots of this.
Trump has made it clear that he intends to punish anyone who has more loyalty to the USA than to him to the best of his ability.
Tom

 

[TomC]

And I think the firearm issue he was convicted on should not be law in the first place.

I disagree with this.
There's lots of people who shouldn't be allowed gun permits. Mainly people who have committed violent crimes.
Hunter is not one of them, but you gotta draw a line somewhere.
Tom

 

[Loren Pechtel]

People who were not really doing anything but being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Yeah, trespassing at the U.S. Capitol during an insurrection is definitely being in the wrong place at the wrong time. like slipping on a banana peel and sliding into a coup attempt.

I'm not saying there was not wrong doing. But the people charged with the wrong doing should get to go to trial just like we treat other criminals.

Do you know why they have not gone to trial yet?

I'm not surprised you would not know about this. If you google for it there will be absolutely no results nor will you find it on any of the propoganda outlets either.

Joe Rogan--not credible.

The other guy--the way he's in your face I would assume he's wrong.

Anyway, looking for facts I find:

Three years later - Sullivan County Democrat

WASHINGTON DC – Exactly three years later, January 6 defendant Edward (Jacob) Lang is still awaiting a trial for over a dozen charges related to his involvement in the assault on the Capitol …

www.scdemocratonline.com

His trial date was moved twice last year. At first, it was switched to May, and then later shifted to October. However, his trial was put on hold once more due to a pending Supreme Court appeal that eyed the possibility of the elimination of one of his 13 Federal charges.

Obviously not a complete answer but it sounds like he's drawing out the legal process. His fault.

In addition to the obstruction charge, he has been accused of fighting with police for about two hours with his fists, feet, a baseball bat and shield. Social media saw his presence on the day, with multiple instances of Lang posting photos of himself along with words such as “give me liberty or give me death.”

Pretty damning evidence.

 

[RVonse]

The Press is going about this like it was Ford's pardon of Nixon!

If he didn't want it to be a big deal, he shouldn't have made such a big deal about promising the press and the American public that he wasn't going to do this, then doing it anyway. That said, I do think there's a double standard at play, given that Trump overtly sells pardons en masse to his friends and underlings, a much more gross ethical violation.

I oppose "blank check" pardons on general principle, and wish the Supreme Court would step in on the matter. But of course, we barely have one at present.

The situation changed.

Had Harris won I would object to the pardon. But with The Felon winning I believe it was the correct course of action.

A very convincing point further demonstrating how rule of law is indeed flexible depending on our political landscape.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

But somehow pardoning his son to save him from Trump’s juvenile vengeance … makes Joe just as corrupt as The Felon?

It obviously makes him a fucking corrupt hypocrite, yes. If his son wanted to be protected from the law, he shouldn't have broken it.

But should the punishment fit the crime? Should the criminal justice system be consistent in how it punishes each crime?

Yes, it should.

"If your dad is rich he can make it go away" is not a tenet conducive to upholding that principle, and frankly it happens far too predictably.

Well then grab onto something, because it's going to happen a lot more very soon. The incoming President has promised (not that he ever keeps promises) to pardon everyone convicted of their crimes on January 6th, has already put one convicted felon/family member in his administration, had previously nominated an accused sex trafficker as AG, and now has picked a man for FBI head who has all but come out and said he wants to destroy the nation's top law enforcement agency and/or weaponize it against anyone Trump doesn't like.

On top of that, the 50-some remaining felonies the President-elect was on trial for AND the 34 he was convicted of just went up in a puff of stacked Supreme Court smoke. There will be no punishment whatsoever for his crimes, no punishment for anyone in his incoming administration, and a good chance that a whole lot of people will be rounded up and put into prison camps for the "crime" of having brown skin or a Latino-sounding name.

Plus doctors who try to provide reproductive health to women, pharmacists who prescribe certain medications, journalists who criticize Trump, and a whole host of other people who displease the regime.

But keep holding that grudge against Hunter Biden if that makes you feel better.

I'm aware. Do you think pointing out that "the other guy does it too, and we're mad when he does it" is some sort of rebuttal of the charge of hypocrisy? As opposed to, as would be more accurate, the very definition of hypocrisy?

I don't see this as a case of the other guy doing it also.

Rather, I see Biden attempting to shield the targets of The Felon's witch hunt. The situation is very, very different.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The Press is going about this like it was Ford's pardon of Nixon!

Hey, don't try to pin that on me. That happened when I was still in middle school.

Well, it was probably a good idea to repeal the right of middle school students to grant pardons. Your pardon of Nixon was likely just the catalyst for a long overdue change.

The reason Nixon was pardoned had nothing to do with right/wrong, but rather that prosecuting him would be sufficiently disruptive for the nation that it wasn't worthwhile. Letting someone off lightly to get them to leave quietly is common.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Why should the 1/6ers be pardoned?

Because there is a lot of suspicion that the deep state was heavily involved with Jan 6. I posted a video earlier and Joe Rogan who explains it much better and detail than I can. You and others can dismiss Joe Rogan if you want, but there are a lot of people who agree with this sentiment right now.

Most of the rank and file of those agencies are probably honest but the people at the top are corrupt.

A lot of people agreeing doesn't provide one speck of evidence that it's true. Just look at religion--it is mathematically certain that the majority of people are wrong.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

To put the false equivalence into some kind of perspective, an AI kindly informs me that Hunter's offense is something for which these people DID receive jail time. Is Hunter just like them? IMHO, not hardly, not even a little bit.

• Rod Blagojevich
• Scooter Libby
• Bernard Madoff
• Martha Stewart
• Jeffrey Skilling

Maybe close to Martha Stewart, and poses much less of a threat to society.

Its not the severity of Hunters crimes. It is the type of pardon he got from Biden. According to right wing media ,there has never been a more encompassing pardon given other than Fords pardon of Nixon. Hunter not only got pardoned for his crime he is pardoned for the other stuff we may not know about most likely involving Biden himself.

Duh, he's trying to prevent any witch hunts about the laptop.

 

[RVonse]

I'm aware. Do you think pointing out that "the other guy does it too, and we're mad when he does it" is some sort of rebuttal of the charge of hypocrisy? As opposed to, as would be more accurate, the very definition of hypocrisy?

I don't see this as a case of the other guy doing it also.

Rather, I see Biden attempting to shield the targets of The Felon's witch hunt. The situation is very, very different.

In theory, an innocent person should not be afraid of the law since they should have nothing to hide. But in practice, everyone should be afraid of law and scrutiny since we are all breaking some kind of law (there are so many of them now) if the government wants to pursue ruining someone.

But that effect worked more in Biden's favor than Trump's because he was more experienced controlling the deep state.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

That's a very different thing than pardoning people who actually did something wrong.

Not just "actually did something wrong".

The January 6 insurrection was an attack on our country! Trump supporters like to pretend that it's a crime like looting a pawn shop. It's not. It's a crime more like the Pearl Harbor attack, except that it was instigated by President Trump and committed by his American followers.
Tom

The people who would have been protesting went a step further because of "deep state" implants who caused the crime to become more severe. Or so that is the apparent narrative of a lot of people knowing more than I do.

If a deep state exists at all it's Republican.

 

[Elixir]

Duh, he's trying to prevent any witch hunts about the laptop.

WHOOOSH!
That has been pointed out six different ways, to no avail. If Joe's pardon has any holes in it, Cheato will spend most of the next four years trying to exploit them.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You are suggesting that the FBI entrapped thousands of idiot Trump supporters who got all caught up in the whirlwind of revolution.

But you won't consider Trump lied his ass off about the election being stolen, which would be apparent by his lack of trying to contest any actual claims in court.

You have a valid point about Trump not contesting actual claims in court. But Trump lying about a stolen election is a different thing altogether with the violence that occurred on Jan 6. Violence that Trump specifically warned not for them to engage in during his speach.

More like asked them to engage in. He just phrased it in the negative to provide deniability.

 

[Politesse]

Had Harris won I would object to the pardon. But with The Felon winning I believe it was the correct course of action.

So you're just... openly partisan, rather than having any sort of consistent principles? This sort of hypocritical posturing is exactly what I hate about the party system: I refuse to reverse my supposed political positions every four or eight years depending on who's in power.

 

[Elixir]

He just phrased it in the negative to provide deniability.

Yes, so sycophants like Vonse and other trumpapologists could continue to misrepresent his intent forever more.

 

[Elixir]

it sounds like he's drawing out the legal process. His fault plan.

FIFY.
Six more weeks and he'll be a free bird, announcing his triumph over injustice to a sea of eager microphones.