Bigoted Doctor Fired

[Patooka]

Modern states are run with institutions and with institutional thinking. They are incredibly dangerous and totally immoral.

So only pre-modern states like Islamic State/Caliphate, Gaza under Hamas rule or Afghanistan under the Taliban, which are/were run by 7th century Islamic principles are acceptable?

Yes, of course that is the only logical alternative. I'm off to by an ISIS flag and when I get back, me and a few of the neighbours are going to convert the local park into a public beheading square.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

That's right. != is how "not equals" is written in some common programming languages.

But here we speak English, of all kinds of different sorts, but English, not programspeak, we're not all robots, not yet.

The internet grew from a culture that was mostly people with at least some knowledge of code. Regardless of what languages they actually work with they would know that != is the computer way of writing the mathematical symbol ≠ as the latter requires Unicode and thus was not available in the ASCII days.

While there has been a great flux of non-technical people since the introduction of the web many aspects of the culture remain. It's the interlopers that don't know !=.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

That's right. != is how "not equals" is written in some common programming languages.

But here we speak English, of all kinds of different sorts, but English, not programspeak, we're not all robots, not yet.

I have seen != and /= and =/= used for this on the interwebs, they are certainly older than emojis.

Yup. All are means of expressing ≠ within the limits of the ASCII character set--all we had in the old days. The use of != in the C family of languages pretty much cemented it as the standard way of expressing it.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Asking "What does "!=" mean" is a great way to get around that.

- - - Updated - - -

That's right. != is how "not equals" is written in some common programming languages.

But here we speak English, of all kinds of different sorts, but English, not programspeak, we're not all robots, not yet.

I have seen != and /= and =/= used for this on the interwebs, they are certainly older than emojis.

Am I the only one old enough to have seen "<>" as well?

I've seen it and used it but it has very much lost favor to !=.

- - - Updated - - -

Modern states are run with institutions and with institutional thinking. They are incredibly dangerous and totally immoral.

So only pre-modern states like Islamic State/Caliphate, Gaza under Hamas rule or Afghanistan under the Taliban, which are/were run by 7th century Islamic principles are acceptable?

That is an insane reading.

But pre-modern states are far less dangerous and do far less harm in this world.

And they are not run by institutions. They are run by individuals.

When you move into institutional control and institutional thinking the individual is meaningless.

Disagree. Things like genocide and ethnic cleansing were very common in the old days.

 

[Derec]

It's the interlopers that don't know !=.

It's the September that never ended.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Well, for the 97.5% of the people who are not software developers and to the point of the OP, this recent article should bring some context to the story: Former Cleveland Clinic resident who posted anti-Semitic remarks apologizes. If employers are going to start shit-canning potential hires for social media remarks they have made in their teens/early twenties, there are going to be a heck of a lot of unfilled jobs going forward.

Kollab's Statement

My Sincerest Apologies

Several social media comments posted on my twitter account years ago have surfaced recently, causing pain, anguish, and a public outcry. I wish sincerely and unequivocally to apologize for the offensive and hurtful language contained in those posts. This statement is not intended to excuse the content of the posts, but rather to demonstrate that those words do not represent who I am and the principles I stand for today.

I visited Israel and the Palestinian Territories every summer throughout my adolescent years. I became incensed at the suffering of the Palestinians under the Israeli occupation. The injustice and brutality of the occupation continues to concern me, and I believe every champion of human rights owes it to humanity to work towards a just and peaceful resolution of this crisis.

As a girl in my teens and early twenties, I had difficulty constructively expressing my intense feelings about what I witnessed in my ancestral land. Like many young people lacking life experience, I expressed myself by making insensitive remarks and statements of passion devoid of thought, not realizing the harm and offense these words would cause.

These posts were made years before I was accepted into medical school, when I was a naïve, and impressionable girl barely out of high school. I matured into a young adult during the years I attended college and medical school, and adopted strong values of inclusion, tolerance, and humanity. I take my profession and the Hippocratic Oath seriously and would never intentionally cause harm to any patient seeking medical care. As a physician, I will always strive to give the best medical treatment to all people, regardless of their race, religion, ethnicity, or culture.

I have learned from this experience and am sorry for the pain I have caused. I pray that the Jewish community will understand and forgive me. I hope to make amends so that we can move forward and work together towards a better future for us all.

What a great time to be young.

 

[Toni]

Well, for the 97.5% of the people who are not software developers and to the point of the OP, this recent article should bring some context to the story: Former Cleveland Clinic resident who posted anti-Semitic remarks apologizes. If employers are going to start shit-canning potential hires for social media remarks they have made in their teens/early twenties, there are going to be a heck of a lot of unfilled jobs going forward.

Kollab's Statement

My Sincerest Apologies

Several social media comments posted on my twitter account years ago have surfaced recently, causing pain, anguish, and a public outcry. I wish sincerely and unequivocally to apologize for the offensive and hurtful language contained in those posts. This statement is not intended to excuse the content of the posts, but rather to demonstrate that those words do not represent who I am and the principles I stand for today.

I visited Israel and the Palestinian Territories every summer throughout my adolescent years. I became incensed at the suffering of the Palestinians under the Israeli occupation. The injustice and brutality of the occupation continues to concern me, and I believe every champion of human rights owes it to humanity to work towards a just and peaceful resolution of this crisis.

As a girl in my teens and early twenties, I had difficulty constructively expressing my intense feelings about what I witnessed in my ancestral land. Like many young people lacking life experience, I expressed myself by making insensitive remarks and statements of passion devoid of thought, not realizing the harm and offense these words would cause.

These posts were made years before I was accepted into medical school, when I was a naïve, and impressionable girl barely out of high school. I matured into a young adult during the years I attended college and medical school, and adopted strong values of inclusion, tolerance, and humanity. I take my profession and the Hippocratic Oath seriously and would never intentionally cause harm to any patient seeking medical care. As a physician, I will always strive to give the best medical treatment to all people, regardless of their race, religion, ethnicity, or culture.

I have learned from this experience and am sorry for the pain I have caused. I pray that the Jewish community will understand and forgive me. I hope to make amends so that we can move forward and work together towards a better future for us all.

What a great time to be young.

Sure, there's that whole: I was young and stupid thing.

Then there is the very real and very serious threat of harming patients-- misguided and immature, of course--but still something extremely concerning. The Cleveland Clinic and any medical practice associated with Kollab would have to be extremely concerned not only if her youthful passions were now matured and she would do no harm to any patient--but whether something might happen to a patient under her care and her youthful passions might be raised as an issue in a law suit. I don't see that they had much of a choice, even if they believed her hateful tweets were simply the product of an immature and impassioned youthful outrage.

There is also a question about just how long ago her tweets were made. Canary Mission dates them from 2011 to 2017. So, a year ago? And she's a changed person? That would be a stunning turn around. And one that she should be able to document, not merely claim in a press release.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

That is an insane reading.

But pre-modern states are far less dangerous and do far less harm in this world.

And they are not run by institutions. They are run by individuals.

When you move into institutional control and institutional thinking the individual is meaningless.

Explain what you mean by "institution" in the context you just used.

An institution is a group of people working with established rules governing the direction of the institution.

So if you have a group of people organized to work together towards some common end that is a bad thing. Understood.

 

[untermensche]

An institution is a group of people working with established rules governing the direction of the institution.

So if you have a group of people organized to work together towards some common end that is a bad thing. Understood.

I never came close to saying that.

What I said is the individual means nothing within an institution.

Try to follow if that is possible.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Well, for the 97.5% of the people who are not software developers and to the point of the OP, this recent article should bring some context to the story: Former Cleveland Clinic resident who posted anti-Semitic remarks apologizes. If employers are going to start shit-canning potential hires for social media remarks they have made in their teens/early twenties, there are going to be a heck of a lot of unfilled jobs going forward.

Kollab's Statement

My Sincerest Apologies

Several social media comments posted on my twitter account years ago have surfaced recently, causing pain, anguish, and a public outcry. I wish sincerely and unequivocally to apologize for the offensive and hurtful language contained in those posts. This statement is not intended to excuse the content of the posts, but rather to demonstrate that those words do not represent who I am and the principles I stand for today.

I visited Israel and the Palestinian Territories every summer throughout my adolescent years. I became incensed at the suffering of the Palestinians under the Israeli occupation. The injustice and brutality of the occupation continues to concern me, and I believe every champion of human rights owes it to humanity to work towards a just and peaceful resolution of this crisis.

As a girl in my teens and early twenties, I had difficulty constructively expressing my intense feelings about what I witnessed in my ancestral land. Like many young people lacking life experience, I expressed myself by making insensitive remarks and statements of passion devoid of thought, not realizing the harm and offense these words would cause.

These posts were made years before I was accepted into medical school, when I was a naïve, and impressionable girl barely out of high school. I matured into a young adult during the years I attended college and medical school, and adopted strong values of inclusion, tolerance, and humanity. I take my profession and the Hippocratic Oath seriously and would never intentionally cause harm to any patient seeking medical care. As a physician, I will always strive to give the best medical treatment to all people, regardless of their race, religion, ethnicity, or culture.

I have learned from this experience and am sorry for the pain I have caused. I pray that the Jewish community will understand and forgive me. I hope to make amends so that we can move forward and work together towards a better future for us all.

What a great time to be young.

Sure, there's that whole: I was young and stupid thing.

Then there is the very real and very serious threat of harming patients-- misguided and immature, of course--but still something extremely concerning. The Cleveland Clinic and any medical practice associated with Kollab would have to be extremely concerned not only if her youthful passions were now matured and she would do no harm to any patient--but whether something might happen to a patient under her care and her youthful passions might be raised as an issue in a law suit. I don't see that they had much of a choice, even if they believed her hateful tweets were simply the product of an immature and impassioned youthful outrage.

There is also a question about just how long ago her tweets were made. Canary Mission dates them from 2011 to 2017. So, a year ago? And she's a changed person? That would be a stunning turn around. And one that she should be able to document, not merely claim in a press release.

Agreed. Though a cursory look at her posts listed on Canary Mission seem to indicate she tempered her speech over time. Further, while I am not familiar with Canary Mission, I question why they would take the time to categorize her posts as they did. Why not simply list them chronologically?

https://canarymission.org/individual/Lara_Kollab

 

[Toni]

Sure, there's that whole: I was young and stupid thing.

Then there is the very real and very serious threat of harming patients-- misguided and immature, of course--but still something extremely concerning. The Cleveland Clinic and any medical practice associated with Kollab would have to be extremely concerned not only if her youthful passions were now matured and she would do no harm to any patient--but whether something might happen to a patient under her care and her youthful passions might be raised as an issue in a law suit. I don't see that they had much of a choice, even if they believed her hateful tweets were simply the product of an immature and impassioned youthful outrage.

There is also a question about just how long ago her tweets were made. Canary Mission dates them from 2011 to 2017. So, a year ago? And she's a changed person? That would be a stunning turn around. And one that she should be able to document, not merely claim in a press release.

Agreed. Though a cursory look at her posts listed on Canary Mission seem to indicate she tempered her speech over time. Further, while I am not familiar with Canary Mission, I question why they would take the time to categorize her posts as they did. Why not simply list them chronologically?

https://canarymission.org/individual/Lara_Kollab

I understand the categories and why posts are so delineated. I also understand personal growth and maturation. And I understand that Kollab is not a stupid person and surely would have had some sense that her comments about purposely giving the wrong medications to Jews would harm her career. I would like to believe that she truly grew up and regretted some of the more outrageous tweets she made. I understand why any medical facility would have difficulty justifying the risk of employing her, no matter how sincere her maturation and growth.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

An institution is a group of people working with established rules governing the direction of the institution.

So if you have a group of people organized to work together towards some common end that is a bad thing. Understood.

I never came close to saying that.

What I said is the individual means nothing within an institution.

Try to follow if that is possible.

You know, my local Toastmasters club is a group of people working with established rules governing the direction of the club.

What you wrote is very much like what I wrote - a group of people, organized, working towards some common end. According to you the individual means nothing within that group.

 

[untermensche]

There is a lot of institutional thinking with the Toast Masters.

The individual means nothing. No individual is bigger than the institution.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Fascinating. Tell me more about how oppressive Toastmasters is.

 

[untermensche]

Fascinating. Tell me more about how oppressive Toastmasters is.

Where have I mentioned oppression?

I have said that the individual and individual ideas mean nothing within an institution.

Within an institution people serve institutional goals not personal goals.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Ah, I see. So people who join Toastmasters do so to serve Toastmasters and not their own personal goals.

How many volunteer organizations is this true of?

 

[untermensche]

At Toastmasters you do as the institution states you do. You give speeches where and when the institution says.

You do not just do whatever you want.

 

[RavenSky]

So?


!= and /= and =/= are definitely != and /= and =/= English

I am not a programmer, yet I understood LPetrich's post. Anyone who has been on chat platforms and social media for more than a week should understand what he wrote.

That said, RonBurgandy's mistake is fine. The way you are arguing for your own ignorance is not.

 

[RavenSky]

Well, for the 97.5% of the people who are not software developers and to the point of the OP, this recent article should bring some context to the story: Former Cleveland Clinic resident who posted anti-Semitic remarks apologizes. If employers are going to start shit-canning potential hires for social media remarks they have made in their teens/early twenties, there are going to be a heck of a lot of unfilled jobs going forward.

Kollab's Statement

My Sincerest Apologies

Several social media comments posted on my twitter account years ago have surfaced recently, causing pain, anguish, and a public outcry. I wish sincerely and unequivocally to apologize for the offensive and hurtful language contained in those posts. This statement is not intended to excuse the content of the posts, but rather to demonstrate that those words do not represent who I am and the principles I stand for today.

I visited Israel and the Palestinian Territories every summer throughout my adolescent years. I became incensed at the suffering of the Palestinians under the Israeli occupation. The injustice and brutality of the occupation continues to concern me, and I believe every champion of human rights owes it to humanity to work towards a just and peaceful resolution of this crisis.

As a girl in my teens and early twenties, I had difficulty constructively expressing my intense feelings about what I witnessed in my ancestral land. Like many young people lacking life experience, I expressed myself by making insensitive remarks and statements of passion devoid of thought, not realizing the harm and offense these words would cause.

These posts were made years before I was accepted into medical school, when I was a naïve, and impressionable girl barely out of high school. I matured into a young adult during the years I attended college and medical school, and adopted strong values of inclusion, tolerance, and humanity. I take my profession and the Hippocratic Oath seriously and would never intentionally cause harm to any patient seeking medical care. As a physician, I will always strive to give the best medical treatment to all people, regardless of their race, religion, ethnicity, or culture.

I have learned from this experience and am sorry for the pain I have caused. I pray that the Jewish community will understand and forgive me. I hope to make amends so that we can move forward and work together towards a better future for us all.

What a great time to be young.

Sure, there's that whole: I was young and stupid thing.

Then there is the very real and very serious threat of harming patients-- misguided and immature, of course--but still something extremely concerning. The Cleveland Clinic and any medical practice associated with Kollab would have to be extremely concerned not only if her youthful passions were now matured and she would do no harm to any patient--but whether something might happen to a patient under her care and her youthful passions might be raised as an issue in a law suit. I don't see that they had much of a choice, even if they believed her hateful tweets were simply the product of an immature and impassioned youthful outrage.

There is also a question about just how long ago her tweets were made. Canary Mission dates them from 2011 to 2017. So, a year ago? And she's a changed person? That would be a stunning turn around. And one that she should be able to document, not merely claim in a press release.

What Toni said.

Threatening to physically harm people by purposely giving them the wrong medications goes too far beyond "youthful indiscretion". Moreover, that she was already talking about giving medication means she was already old enough to have already decided on her career path.

 

[untermensche]

No person was ever threatened.

No person ever feared.

Nobody was harmed.

Unlike the Palestinians.

This girl deserves about one millionth the contempt the government of Israel deserves.