Black Jogger Gunned Down In The Street

[Jimmy Higgins]

I know people who wander into construction sites to look at how things are done. But you have to assume this black guy was looking to commit a crime. Disgraceful.

Not assuming. I said maybe. And I was not speculating because he was black, but because a) he was a thief, with a recent theft conviction from 2018 and b) reportedly stuff was stolen from that very site earlier. Probably why the owner put in the camera.

Video shows him not stealing stuff.

 

[laughing dog]

It should not. Smearing means using false information. Pointing that somebody suspected of theft is actually a thief is not a smear.

It is a smear since he was (past tense) a thief- there is no evidence that he IS (present tense) a thief. It is also a smear since you are using it to shoehorn that he is likely to steal again

 

[Toni]

He was hoping to be an electrician. I don't see him look around for tools but look instead at studs, etc. where he might be looking at electrical work.

Trying to steal copper wiring maybe?

And yet: not looking at all as though he were steeling copper wiring.

 

[laughing dog]

Interestingly, nothing had ever been reported stolen from that construction site. The owner reported a trespasser. Yet we have the usual suspect(s) throwing out possible thievery as an explanation for Mr. Arbery's behavior in order to excuse his killing.

 

[Arctish]

I know people who wander into construction sites to look at how things are done. But you have to assume this black guy was looking to commit a crime. Disgraceful.

Not assuming. I said maybe. And I was not speculating because he was black, but because a) he was a thief, with a recent theft conviction from 2018 and b) reportedly stuff was stolen from that very site earlier. Probably why the owner put in the camera.

You are making the case that the McMichaels lynched a black man they didn't want jogging through their neighborhood because they suspected he might steal something.

I don't think you realize just how damning that argument is. You are making the case it was definitely felony murder, and that the shooters harbored ill-will toward the victim so the aggravated assault was probably pre-meditated, not just a spur of the moment thing.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Watching the surveillance video, I doubt very much that this guy was jogging. He walked up to the house, stops, waits a little and goes inside. It appears his "jogging" occurred after he noticed someone took notice of what he was doing.

He didn't commit much of a crime, other than trespassing, maybe looking for tools or something (not much to steal in a house under construction). And he certainly didn't deserve an armed couple going after him. Yes, he was probably nervous about getting caught. Yes, the armed neighbors broke the law in trying to apprehend a person who committed an act that likely wouldn't have meant much by a stern talking to by a cop.

Theft from construction sites is a big problem. We (while I'm a programmer I've now spent a quarter century working for companies in construction) have had plenty of stuff walk off the jobsite.

Note that if he entered and looked around for anything worth stealing (and that video looks a lot more like a thief looking for stuff than someone curious about the house) he's guilty of burglary, not merely trespassing.

 

[Toni]

Watching the surveillance video, I doubt very much that this guy was jogging. He walked up to the house, stops, waits a little and goes inside. It appears his "jogging" occurred after he noticed someone took notice of what he was doing.

He didn't commit much of a crime, other than trespassing, maybe looking for tools or something (not much to steal in a house under construction). And he certainly didn't deserve an armed couple going after him. Yes, he was probably nervous about getting caught. Yes, the armed neighbors broke the law in trying to apprehend a person who committed an act that likely wouldn't have meant much by a stern talking to by a cop.

Theft from construction sites is a big problem. We (while I'm a programmer I've now spent a quarter century working for companies in construction) have had plenty of stuff walk off the jobsite.

Note that if he entered and looked around for anything worth stealing (and that video looks a lot more like a thief looking for stuff than someone curious about the house) he's guilty of burglary, not merely trespassing.

Really? He's looking at wall studs, not looking round on the floor/ground where tools might be left laying about. To me, he looks as though he's curious about the workmanship. Note: he doesn't take anything or attempt to take anything. If he had been the earlier thief, it seems he would have known he had already taken what was worth stealing.

Regardless: When the McMichaels shot him, he had no stolen property or weapon on him. They had called the police and instead of waiting for the police to arrive, they chased down an unarmed man and demanded he stop and then they shot him.

 

[Toni]

Watching the surveillance video, I doubt very much that this guy was jogging. He walked up to the house, stops, waits a little and goes inside. It appears his "jogging" occurred after he noticed someone took notice of what he was doing.

He didn't commit much of a crime, other than trespassing, maybe looking for tools or something (not much to steal in a house under construction). And he certainly didn't deserve an armed couple going after him. Yes, he was probably nervous about getting caught. Yes, the armed neighbors broke the law in trying to apprehend a person who committed an act that likely wouldn't have meant much by a stern talking to by a cop.

Theft from construction sites is a big problem. We (while I'm a programmer I've now spent a quarter century working for companies in construction) have had plenty of stuff walk off the jobsite.

Note that if he entered and looked around for anything worth stealing (and that video looks a lot more like a thief looking for stuff than someone curious about the house) he's guilty of burglary, not merely trespassing.

Theft from a construction site is a problem. Only an idiot leaves tools and easily taken materials lying about unsecured on a construction site. However, he had no stolen materials on him and the video does not show him taking anything.

A different video, taken by the McMichaels' accomplice, does show them murdering Arbery.

 

[Trausti]

Watching the surveillance video, I doubt very much that this guy was jogging. He walked up to the house, stops, waits a little and goes inside. It appears his "jogging" occurred after he noticed someone took notice of what he was doing.

He didn't commit much of a crime, other than trespassing, maybe looking for tools or something (not much to steal in a house under construction). And he certainly didn't deserve an armed couple going after him. Yes, he was probably nervous about getting caught. Yes, the armed neighbors broke the law in trying to apprehend a person who committed an act that likely wouldn't have meant much by a stern talking to by a cop.

Theft from construction sites is a big problem. We (while I'm a programmer I've now spent a quarter century working for companies in construction) have had plenty of stuff walk off the jobsite.

Note that if he entered and looked around for anything worth stealing (and that video looks a lot more like a thief looking for stuff than someone curious about the house) he's guilty of burglary, not merely trespassing.

Eh, but that is kinda irrelevant as the two did not see him do anything. Without the basis for a legitimate citizen's arrest, their behavior is inexcusable.

 

[Elixir]

Ya know, that he wasn't jogging and that the father and son were criminally reckless can both be true.

That he wasn't jogging and that the father and son were racist bastards committing a heinous hate crime known as premeditated murder-1, can both be true.
Or, as a libberpublican might say - they were possibly criminally negligent in their pursuit of justice.

Well, not premeditated murder.

Can't be both premeditated murder and not jogging? Because you say it can't?

Typical libberpublican bullshit.

Do you not understand what premeditation means?

Would you like me to give you the Latin roots?
(Hint: It doesn't mean "not possible unless jogging".)

 

[Trausti]

Well, not premeditated murder.

Can't be both premeditated murder and not jogging? Because you say it can't?

Typical libberpublican bullshit.

Do you not understand what premeditation means?

Would you like me to give you the Latin roots?
(Hint: It doesn't mean "not possible unless jogging".)

Do you understand the difference between 1st and 2nd degree murder and manslaughter?

 

[Emily Lake]

Maybe he felt they were going to kill him. Maybe he was a burglar and didn't want to go to jail.

It doesn't matter. Whether or not he might have committed a misdemeanor is completely irrelevant. These were not police who chased him, they were armed civilians in a motor vehicle while he was an unarmed civilian on foot. They pursued him while armed, used their vehicle in a threatening manner, and then one of them got out of the vehicle and pointed a shotgun at him. Their behavior is not legal.

 

[Derec]

This is new construction. What is he going to steal, PVC plumbing and fiber optic cable?!

Copper cable theft is a real thing.

Risk of copper wire thefts in areas of construction

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Maybe he felt they were going to kill him. Maybe he was a burglar and didn't want to go to jail.

It doesn't matter. Whether or not he might have committed a misdemeanor is completely irrelevant. These were not police who chased him, they were armed civilians in a motor vehicle while he was an unarmed civilian on foot. They pursued him while armed, used their vehicle in a threatening manner, and then one of them got out of the vehicle and pointed a shotgun at him. Their behavior is not legal.

What's legal doesn't always matter. What matters is what you can get away with, like it was in Georgia a couple generations ago.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

He's certainly not casing the joint as there is no joint yet to case.

Construction tools, construction supplies. We tried to never leave cabinets uninstalled but if a problem arises in the middle of the job the installer doesn't have the ability to haul them to somewhere for safekeeping, and sometimes they were even stolen off the wall.

 

[Elixir]

Do you understand the difference between 1st and 2nd degree murder and manslaughter?

What part of "That he wasn't jogging and that the father and son were racist bastards committing a heinous hate crime known as premeditated murder-1, can both be true." don't you understand?

If you can read it and still believe it is a false statement, say what you believe is false about it and stop asking stupid questions.

The larger point is that the DA tried to bury it.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

He had to be witnessed committing a FELONY for it to be legal for a citizens arrest. I don't know if a citizen's arrest while armed is legal (though the asshole DA didn't see anything wrong with it). Even if the guy had stolen something (he didn't), that doesn't elevate to a felony (well... this is Georgia... ???), so yes, the attempted apprehension while armed is undoubtedly assault!

And that is ignoring the whole pulling the trigger (3 times) thing.

If his purpose in entering was looking for something to steal he did commit a felony by Georgia law.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Watching the surveillance video, I doubt very much that this guy was jogging. He walked up to the house, stops, waits a little and goes inside. It appears his "jogging" occurred after he noticed someone took notice of what he was doing.

He didn't commit much of a crime, other than trespassing, maybe looking for tools or something (not much to steal in a house under construction). And he certainly didn't deserve an armed couple going after him. Yes, he was probably nervous about getting caught. Yes, the armed neighbors broke the law in trying to apprehend a person who committed an act that likely wouldn't have meant much by a stern talking to by a cop.

Theft from construction sites is a big problem. We (while I'm a programmer I've now spent a quarter century working for companies in construction) have had plenty of stuff walk off the jobsite.

Note that if he entered and looked around for anything worth stealing (and that video looks a lot more like a thief looking for stuff than someone curious about the house) he's guilty of burglary, not merely trespassing.

Really? He's looking at wall studs, not looking round on the floor/ground where tools might be left laying about. To me, he looks as though he's curious about the workmanship. Note: he doesn't take anything or attempt to take anything. If he had been the earlier thief, it seems he would have known he had already taken what was worth stealing.

Regardless: When the McMichaels shot him, he had no stolen property or weapon on him. They had called the police and instead of waiting for the police to arrive, they chased down an unarmed man and demanded he stop and then they shot him.

He walks into the center of the one room and looks around. That's not enough to tell you much about the house, but it is enough to see if there's anything worth stealing lying around. He didn't see anything, he left. If he was interested in how some particular part of the construction was done he would have gone up to that bit of construction to look at it.

 

[Emily Lake]

If his purpose in entering was looking for something to steal he did commit a felony by Georgia law.

So... he entered a construction site and looked around, he didn't steal anything. He's now dead. How exactly are you inferring his "purpose" here? Seems like you might be inventing justification for this event.

 

[Elixir]

If his purpose in entering was looking for something to steal he did commit a felony by Georgia law.

I don't think Georgia law allows citizens at large to summarily hunt down and kill people whose intent they find suspect.
Not explicitly anyhow.