Black Jogger Gunned Down In The Street

[Koyaanisqatsi]

So if the McMichaels did call the police I don't think or believe the intention was to go out and "lynch" a black guy as some people are trying to make out. Everyone in this sorry tale made bad choices.

Except for Arbery.

 

[Worldtraveller]

So if the McMichaels did call the police I don't think or believe the intention was to go out and "lynch" a black guy as some people are trying to make out. Everyone in this sorry tale made bad choices.

Except for Arbery.

He made the bad decision to be black.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So if the McMichaels did call the police I don't think or believe the intention was to go out and "lynch" a black guy as some people are trying to make out. Everyone in this sorry tale made bad choices.

Yes, the false equivalency here... Arbery made the "mistake" of trespassing and self-defense, and the McMichaels made the "mistake" of committed armed assault and subsequently killing someone. One of these "mistakes" is a tad bit larger than the other... one might even consider one of the "mistakes" to be considered "felonies".

 

[Toni]

So if the McMichaels did call the police I don't think or believe the intention was to go out and "lynch" a black guy as some people are trying to make out. Everyone in this sorry tale made bad choices.

Yes, the false equivalency here... Arbery made the "mistake" of trespassing and self-defense, and the McMichaels made the "mistake" of committed armed assault and subsequently killing someone. One of these "mistakes" is a tad bit larger than the other... one might even consider one of the "mistakes" to be considered "felonies".

Arbery only made a mistake of self defense if you believe McMichaels wouldn't have shot him anyway. Clearly, Arbery did believe that and he certainly had a much better perspective of the situation than all of us arm chair quarter backs.

 

[TSwizzle]

So if the McMichaels did call the police I don't think or believe the intention was to go out and "lynch" a black guy as some people are trying to make out. Everyone in this sorry tale made bad choices.

Yes, the false equivalency here... Arbery made the "mistake" of trespassing and self-defense, and the McMichaels made the "mistake" of committed armed assault and subsequently killing someone. One of these "mistakes" is a tad bit larger than the other... one might even consider one of the "mistakes" to be considered "felonies".

I'm not sure these events were "mistakes". Mistakes seems like it is unintentional. I would say Arbery intentionally trespassed, not a mistake but a poor choice/decision. The McMichaels did not arm themselves and chase down Arbery by mistake, they intentionally/deliberately did that. And of course the consequences (not a mistake) for all these factors resulted in the death of Arbery. I would say the worst choice was for the McMichaels was to get tooled up and chase Arbery down. That was so unnecessary.

 

[Jarhyn]

So if the McMichaels did call the police I don't think or believe the intention was to go out and "lynch" a black guy as some people are trying to make out. Everyone in this sorry tale made bad choices.

Yes, the false equivalency here... Arbery made the "mistake" of trespassing and self-defense, and the McMichaels made the "mistake" of committed armed assault and subsequently killing someone. One of these "mistakes" is a tad bit larger than the other... one might even consider one of the "mistakes" to be considered "felonies".

Arbery only made a mistake of self defense if you believe McMichaels wouldn't have shot him anyway. Clearly, Arbery did believe that and he certainly had a much better perspective of the situation than all of us arm chair quarter backs.

Not to mention the fact that black people, much like gay people, much like atheists, much like Romani and Jews have a history. That historical record, in recent living times includes MANY instances of prejudice, rapes, killings, shootings, etc.

As a young gay man, I (and several others I know) were warned about how much more dangerous it is to be gay. My husband has had direct run-ins with people who wanted to harm him for being a "faggot". I'm sure if I was black, I would have been brought up hearing about how black people get shot, assaulted, and otherwise discriminated against. I would hear stories about the black man who got shot for walking around his own home with a flashlight at night. I would hear about the man who was shot for "reaching". I would have learned from this history that being black is dangerous, and ifna white person is brandishing a gun at you, if it starts resonating with the long history of situations gone sour, namely two white guys in Georgia with shotguns Inna truck, gone towards what could very well be "let's kill us a n----r", that I would absolutely run, then resist when running is no longer an option.

The reality is that the recent existence of that history demands not triggering the necessary assumption of needing to react to a lynching in progress. It will be probably never be appropriate, in light of this, for two white non-police persons with shotguns and a pickup truck to attempt to apprehend a black man FOR ANY REASON short of an immediate crime having happened.

The fact is, two white guys in a pickup truck with shotguns is too close to the historical shape of a lynching to take it as anything but, from the perspective of a black man.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

There was the Castle sort of defense, where your home you have a wider range of options.

Now it is Stand Your Ground. As in, where you are if you are under imminent threat where you are, where you stand. If you aren't home you have alternatives now, and don't automatically need to run away. However, these people sought a threat. Their ground was just fine... they needed to find other ground to become threatened, primarily because they didn't have a clue what they were doing.

They established that people in public shouldn't do stuff like this because they lack the training to do it (and this assuming they are doing all of this in good faith!).

So if the McMichaels did call the police I don't think or believe the intention was to go out and "lynch" a black guy as some people are trying to make out. Everyone in this sorry tale made bad choices.

Yes, the false equivalency here... Arbery made the "mistake" of trespassing and self-defense, and the McMichaels made the "mistake" of committed armed assault and subsequently killing someone. One of these "mistakes" is a tad bit larger than the other... one might even consider one of the "mistakes" to be considered "felonies".

Arbery only made a mistake of self defense if you believe McMichaels wouldn't have shot him anyway. Clearly, Arbery did believe that and he certainly had a much better perspective of the situation than all of us arm chair quarter backs.

Yeah, that was intended to be a mistake in quotes.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I would say the worst choice was for the McMichaels was to get tooled up and chase Arbery down. That was so unnecessary.

What about afterward, deciding to confront him while they are armed and deciding to get physical and deciding to shoot him? It appears there is a whole series of decisions that were unnecessary.

 

[atrib]

Do you expect Arbery to just lay down on the ground and not try to fight his way out?

I think grabbing the barrel of a shotgun is a good way to get shot.

The black man has no right to try to defend himself from armed vigilantes? How can this possibly be Arbery's fault? He did not initiate the confrontation, the two armed men did. They armed themselves and set out to follow Arbery and confront him instead of waiting for law enforcement to arrive and deal with the situation. Their actions were premeditated and the consequences of their actions were predictable based on any reasonable standard. They were the aggressors in this situation. This is not accidental manslaughter, this is a lynching.

 

[barbos]

So if the McMichaels did call the police I don't think or believe the intention was to go out and "lynch" a black guy as some people are trying to make out. Everyone in this sorry tale made bad choices.

Yes, the false equivalency here... Arbery made the "mistake" of trespassing and self-defense, and the McMichaels made the "mistake" of committed armed assault and subsequently killing someone. One of these "mistakes" is a tad bit larger than the other... one might even consider one of the "mistakes" to be considered "felonies".

Arbery only made a mistake of self defense if you believe McMichaels wouldn't have shot him anyway. Clearly, Arbery did believe that and he certainly had a much better perspective of the situation than all of us arm chair quarter backs.

You can repeat this nonsense over and over again, but the truth is McMichaels were trying to arrest/detain him, and he attacked them and Travis had to defend himself.

 

[Derec]

Except for Arbery.

You don't think trespassing (at the very least) at a construction site was not a "bad choice"?
You don't think grabbing the barrel of a gun is a "bad choice"?

 

[TSwizzle]

The black man has no right to try to defend himself from armed vigilantes?

It's not about rights fella. It's about the wisdom of defending oneself against multiple armed assailants.

This is not accidental manslaughter, this is a lynching.

Nope.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The man who is a victim of a felony shouldn't be getting critiqued too much for making bad decisions while he was becoming the victim of a felony.

 

[TSwizzle]

And neither should this tragic incident be portrayed as a lynching when clearly it wasn't.

 

[Derec]

Not to mention the fact that black people, much like gay people, much like atheists, much like Romani and Jews have a history. That historical record, in recent living times includes MANY instances of prejudice, rapes, killings, shootings, etc.

In recent living times black people are killing twice as many white people than white people are killing black people. That is a fact that does not fit your racist propaganda.

As a young gay man,

I always thought you were female. Go figure.

But in any case, gays do not have a high rate of violent crime. Neither do atheists or Jews. But blacks do. How long will "the past" be used as an excuse for that?

I'm sure if I was black, I would have been brought up hearing about how black people get shot, assaulted, and otherwise discriminated against.

I am sure you would be, but it would be propaganda, not reality. Most black people are shot and assaulted by other black people, and black people are assaulting and killing more white people than vice versa. But main thing the prevailing narratives are politically correct, right?
And discrimination goes both ways - see Fulton County library scandal for example. Besides, blacks have the advantage of systemic positive racial discrimination in their favor, aka "affirmative action". For example, black people can get into medical school with mediocre grades and MCAT scores while whites and Asians need to be very good students to have a shot. Play with different options on LizzyM and see how chances are vastly different for blacks and those who don't have the advantage of positive discrimination by race.

I would hear stories about the black man who got shot for walking around his own home with a flashlight at night. I would hear about the man who was shot for "reaching". I would have learned from this history that being black is dangerous, and ifna white person is brandishing a gun at you, if it starts resonating with the long history of situations gone sour, namely two white guys in Georgia with shotguns Inna truck, gone towards what could very well be "let's kill us a n----r", that I would absolutely run, then resist when running is no longer an option.

Again, there are more white people killed by black people than vice versa. This attitude is without merit.

The reality is that the recent existence of that history demands not triggering the necessary assumption of needing to react to a lynching in progress.

Lynchings mostly happened a long time ago, as in 100 years or more.
Of course, racist propaganda is more enduring. I remember when a young black man hanged himself in Piedmont Park, Atlanta, race warriors have claimed it was a "lynching" and they also made up a non-existent clan gathering at the Park. By the way, the guy was also gay and his family not accepting him triggered his suicide. Sad all around, but certainly not a lynching, despite Black Twitter being so sure it was.

Piedmont Park hanging victim was gay Midtown man

The fact is, two white guys in a pickup truck with shotguns is too close to the historical shape of a lynching to take it as anything but, from the perspective of a black man.

But I guess you think two black guys with shotguns would be fine?

 

[atrib]

In recent living times black people are killing twice as many white people than white people are killing black people. That is a fact that does not fit your racist propaganda.

Does that make it ok for white men in trucks to chase down and attempt to forcibly detain a black man at gunpoint?

 

[Derec]

Does that make it ok for white men in trucks to chase down and attempt to forcibly detain a black man at gunpoint?

That depends on the circumstances, and should not depend on the race of the chasers nor the race of the subject.

The sentence you quoted was a response to Jarhyn's ridiculous post about how blacks are victims of widespread white violence, when reality is quite different.

 

[laughing dog]

Arbery only made a mistake of self defense if you believe McMichaels wouldn't have shot him anyway. Clearly, Arbery did believe that and he certainly had a much better perspective of the situation than all of us arm chair quarter backs.

You can repeat this nonsense over and over again, but the truth is McMichaels were trying to arrest/detain him, and he attacked them and Travis had to defend himself.

I realize in Russia that repeating nonsense means it is true, but that doesn't work that well here.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Arbery only made a mistake of self defense if you believe McMichaels wouldn't have shot him anyway. Clearly, Arbery did believe that and he certainly had a much better perspective of the situation than all of us arm chair quarter backs.

You can repeat this nonsense over and over again, but the truth is McMichaels were trying to arrest/detain him, and he attacked them and Travis had to defend himself.

I realize in Russia that repeating nonsense means it is true, but that doesn't work that well here.

Here... as in you mean TF, right, because that shit works in the US, especially with politics!

Also, the men with the guns were threatened. Cute.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

In recent living times black people are killing twice as many white people than white people are killing black people.

You know that's not accurate. Nor does it address the central problem, which is police officers disproportionately killing unarmed black people vs. unarmed white people. Here's the best study available that specifically accounts for all relevant variables: A Multi-Level Bayesian Analysis of Racial Bias in Police Shootings at the County-Level in the United States, 2011–2014.

The abstract (emphasis mine):

A geographically-resolved, multi-level Bayesian model is used to analyze the data presented in the U.S. Police-Shooting Database (USPSD) in order to investigate the extent of racial bias in the shooting of American civilians by police officers in recent years. In contrast to previous work that relied on the FBI’s Supplemental Homicide Reports that were constructed from self-reported cases of police-involved homicide, this data set is less likely to be biased by police reporting practices. County-specific relative risk outcomes of being shot by police are estimated as a function of the interaction of: 1) whether suspects/civilians were armed or unarmed, and 2) the race/ethnicity of the suspects/civilians. The results provide evidence of a significant bias in the killing of unarmed black Americans relative to unarmed white Americans, in that the probability of being {black, unarmed, and shot by police} is about 3.49 times the probability of being {white, unarmed, and shot by police} on average. Furthermore, the results of multi-level modeling show that there exists significant heterogeneity across counties in the extent of racial bias in police shootings, with some counties showing relative risk ratios of 20 to 1 or more. Finally, analysis of police shooting data as a function of county-level predictors suggests that racial bias in police shootings is most likely to emerge in police departments in larger metropolitan counties with low median incomes and a sizable portion of black residents, especially when there is high financial inequality in that county. There is no relationship between county-level racial bias in police shootings and crime rates (even race-specific crime rates), meaning that the racial bias observed in police shootings in this data set is not explainable as a response to local-level crime rates.

Those are facts that don't fit your bigoted propaganda.

And, yes, it's relevant here because the father (McMichael) is an ex-cop who evidently had issues with Arbery from some previous involvement and is the prime motivator in the arming, pursuit and subsequent killing, if only indirectly.