Black Jogger Gunned Down In The Street

[laughing dog]

The black man has no right to try to defend himself from armed vigilantes?

It's not about rights fella. It's about the wisdom of defending oneself against multiple armed assailants.

No, at this point, it is about the criminal justice system holding the armed assailants accountable for their actions. Mr. Arbery has already paid the price for his choices.

 

[atrib]

Arbery only made a mistake of self defense if you believe McMichaels wouldn't have shot him anyway. Clearly, Arbery did believe that and he certainly had a much better perspective of the situation than all of us arm chair quarter backs.

You can repeat this nonsense over and over again, but the truth is McMichaels were trying to arrest/detain him, and he attacked them and Travis had to defend himself.

Did the McMichaels have the right to detain Mr. Arbery at gunpoint, after chasing Mr. Arbery in a truck, attempting to cut off his escape, and forcing a confrontation with him, based on the mere suspicion that Mr. Arbery may have trespassed on someone else's (not the McMichael's) property?

Didn't Mr Arbery have the right to attempt to defend himself against the threat posed by armed strangers who had hunted him down and threatened him with guns?

And finally, could the McMichaels have reasonably foreseen the consequences of their actions; that Mr Arbery might feel threatened and act to defend himself when forced into a confrontation with armed strangers, thereby escalating the situation to where someone might get hurt or killed?

The McMichaels are the aggressors here; through their actions, they knowingly and recklessly put themselves and Mr Arbery in harm's way, and they are the primary reason that Mr Arbery died an untimely death. They should be held responsible for their actions and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

 

[blastula]

Too many people are saying the McMichaelses were chasing him because of the trespass that just happened, the one on video, but they didn't know anything about that. Gregory said they saw him running down the street, and chased him because they suspected him of being responsible for prior break-ins.

Glynn County Police Department Incident Report

I began speaking with Gregory McMichael who was a witness to the incident. McMichael stated there have been several Break-ins in the neighborhood and further the suspect was caught on surveillance video. McMichael stated he was in his front yard and saw the suspect from the break-ins "hauling ass" down Satilla Drive toward Burford Drive. McMichael stated he then ran inside his house and called to Travis (McMichael) and said, "Travis the guy is running down the street lets go". McMichael stated he went to his bedroom and grabbed his .357 Magnum and Travis grabbed his shotgun because they "didn't know if the male was armed or not". McMichael stated, "the other night" they saw the same male and he stuck his hand down his pants which lead them to believe the male was armed.

McMichael stated he and Travis got in the truck and drove down Satilla

Drive toward Burford Drive. McMichael stated when they arrived at the intersection of Satilla Drive and Holmes Drive, they saw the unidentified male running down Burford drive. McMichael then stated Travis drive down Burford and attempted to cut off the male. McMichael stated the unidentified male turned around and began running back the direction from which he came and "Roddy" attempted to block him which was unsuccessful. McMichael stated he then jumped into the bed of the truck and he and Travis continued to Holmes in an attempt to intercept him.

McMichael stated they saw the unidentified male and shouted "stop, stop, we want to talk to you". McMichael stated they pulled up beside the male and shouted stop again at which time Travis exited the truck with the shotgun. McMichael stated the unidentified male began to violently attack Travis and the two men then started fighting over the shotgun at which point Travis fired a shot and then a second later there was a second shot. McMichael stated the male fell face down on the pavement with his hand under his body. McMichael stated he rolled the man over to see if the male had a weapon.

 

[Emily Lake]

The McMichaels would never have caught up with him. Arbery was an accomplished athlete.

Let me think about this for a moment...

Nope, I'm pretty sure that motor vehicles are still faster than even the most accomplished of accomplished athletes.

 

[laughing dog]

Too many people are saying the McMichaelses were chasing him because of the trespass that just happened, the one on video, but they didn't know anything about that. Gregory said they saw him running down the street, and chased him because they suspected him of being responsible for prior break-ins.

Glynn County Police Department Incident Report

I began speaking with Gregory McMichael who was a witness to the incident. McMichael stated there have been several Break-ins in the neighborhood and further the suspect was caught on surveillance video. McMichael stated he was in his front yard and saw the suspect from the break-ins "hauling ass" down Satilla Drive toward Burford Drive. McMichael stated he then ran inside his house and called to Travis (McMichael) and said, "Travis the guy is running down the street lets go". McMichael stated he went to his bedroom and grabbed his .357 Magnum and Travis grabbed his shotgun because they "didn't know if the male was armed or not". McMichael stated, "the other night" they saw the same male and he stuck his hand down his pants which lead them to believe the male was armed.

McMichael stated he and Travis got in the truck and drove down Satilla

Drive toward Burford Drive. McMichael stated when they arrived at the intersection of Satilla Drive and Holmes Drive, they saw the unidentified male running down Burford drive. McMichael then stated Travis drive down Burford and attempted to cut off the male. McMichael stated the unidentified male turned around and began running back the direction from which he came and "Roddy" attempted to block him which was unsuccessful. McMichael stated he then jumped into the bed of the truck and he and Travis continued to Holmes in an attempt to intercept him.

McMichael stated they saw the unidentified male and shouted "stop, stop, we want to talk to you". McMichael stated they pulled up beside the male and shouted stop again at which time Travis exited the truck with the shotgun. McMichael stated the unidentified male began to violently attack Travis and the two men then started fighting over the shotgun at which point Travis fired a shot and then a second later there was a second shot. McMichael stated the male fell face down on the pavement with his hand under his body. McMichael stated he rolled the man over to see if the male had a weapon.

From their statements,
1) the "trespassing" argument is irrelevant, and
2) there is no way Mr. Arbery could know those two armed "bubbas" were trying to make a citizen's arrest.

While that should shut up the "blame the victim" crowd, I doubt it will.

 

[Emily Lake]

The man who is a victim of a felony shouldn't be getting critiqued too much for making bad decisions while he was becoming the victim of a felony.

He probably shouldn't have worn such a short skirt.

 

[Emily Lake]

No, at this point, it is about the criminal justice system holding the armed assailants accountable for their actions. Mr. Arbery has already paid the price for his choices.

Yep. It's about a DA who brushed the whole thing under the rug and didn't even bother to pretend to investigate a clearly illegal action by the McMichaelses. It's about a legal system in Glynn County that was happy to do nothing at all until the video was released and their lies about the events were exposed.

 

[TSwizzle]

The McMichaels would never have caught up with him. Arbery was an accomplished athlete.

{snip} I'm pretty sure that motor vehicles are still faster than even the most accomplished of accomplished athletes.

If Arbery sticks to the road, for sure. But that is a very rural area, he could have gone "off road" rather than run straight toward them. Why would he run straight toward two armed men ? Incidentally, the McMichaels' truck was facing the same direction as Abrey was running. If Arbrey had about turned and run in the opposite direction, the McMichaels would have had to get back in the truck and turn the truck around and try to catch up again.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The man who is a victim of a felony shouldn't be getting critiqued too much for making bad decisions while he was becoming the victim of a felony.

He probably shouldn't have worn such a short skirt.

He was wearing underwear though. And not the sexy type.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The McMichaels would never have caught up with him. Arbery was an accomplished athlete.

But the video would have gone viral if they tried.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Except for Arbery.

You don't think trespassing (at the very least) at a construction site was not a "bad choice"?

I literally cannot count the number of times I have "trespassed" on numerous constructions sites in my lifetime. Well over a dozen, at the very least, spanning from when I was just a curious kid to a stoned teenager to an adult DIYer interested in seeing what materials were being used and how the layout was progressing. You know why? Because they are always open sites and I'm white, so it literally never once occurred to me that anyone would give a tiny shit if I were taking a look around.

And if anyone did say anything to me I knew all that I would have to do is apologize and just say exactly what I was doing (taking a look at the craftsmanship) and I'd be on my way without a single word after that.

You don't think grabbing the barrel of a gun is a "bad choice"?

Here's a summary of the autopsy report:

The autopsy, performed by Georgia Bureau of Investigation medical examiner Edmund Donoghue, confirms what many assumed after video showed the black man's fatal shooting following a pursuit by at least two armed men.

"This 25-year-old Black male, AHMAUD ARBERY, died of multiple shotgun wounds sustained during a struggle for the shotgun," Donoghue wrote in conclusion.

Arbery suffered a "deep, gaping, shotgun graze" to his right wrist, as well as wounds to his upper left chest and lower middle chest, according to the report written April 1. Thirteen shotgun pellets exited Arbery's back, and 11 more were recovered from his wounds, the report says.

The shotgun blasts also damaged his right lung and fractured his upper left arm and scapula, according to the report.

I know you won't, but look at the video again (just the section indicated in the link with "The Struggle").

It's hard to gauge distance in the video, but the person taking the video is about twenty yards away? Regardless, far enough away that there is going to be a slight delay between the shot and the soundwave of the shot being picked up by the phone mic. Iow, the sound of the first shot is going to come slightly after McMichaels actually shot.

Look at the speed Arbery is running toward Travis McMichael and notice how, when the two emerge on the left side of the truck, Travis is still in his firing stance as Arbery overtakes him and pushes him backwards. Although it's obscured by the truck, Travis had to have been in that firing stance--pointing the shotgun at Arbery--before Arbery turns to close the distance, which he does pretty quickly judging from the momentum of both as they emerge.

The first gunshot seems to be just as Arbery dissappears behind the front of the truck, but, again, due to the way sound travels, you have to add at least a fraction of a second to compensate for the distance between the actual shot and the soundwave hitting the phone mic.

That would necessarily mean that Travis fired before Arbery could grab the gun, which is corroborated by the fact that Arbery's right wrist was grazed at that point (since the other two wounds inflicted far more damage and would not have allowed Arbery to act as he did in the struggle).

When they emerge both of Arbery's hands are firmly gripping the gun. How could he have been deeply grazed in his wrist if both hands were firmly gripping the gun before Arbery fired?

Travis had to not only have been in a threatening firing position, he would have had to have fired the gun as Arbery was trying to close the distance between them. Iow, before Arbery could have grabbed the gun.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

In recent living times black people are killing twice as many white people than white people are killing black people. That is a fact that does not fit your racist propaganda.

Your argument is one-dimensional racist propaganda. Poor people living in highly populated areas are killing others at a higher proportion. Historically, why were blacks pushed into the cities and not allowed in the suburbs where there is higher economic advantage and lower population density? If whites were all stuck in the cities with higher crime and less economic advantage and high population density, and blacks were part of a ruling class structure by and large, in gated communities, protected out in suburbs and mansions, it would be the opposite.

 

[Arctish]

The McMichaels would never have caught up with him. Arbery was an accomplished athlete.

{snip} I'm pretty sure that motor vehicles are still faster than even the most accomplished of accomplished athletes.

If Arbery sticks to the road, for sure. But that is a very rural area, he could have gone "off road" rather than run straight toward them. Why would he run straight toward two armed men ? Incidentally, the McMichaels' truck was facing the same direction as Abrey was running. If Arbrey had about turned and run in the opposite direction, the McMichaels would have had to get back in the truck and turn the truck around and try to catch up again.

"McMichael stated when they arrived at the intersection of Satilla Drive and Holmes Drive, they saw the unidentified male running down Burford drive. McMichael then stated Travis drive down Burford and attempted to cut off the male. McMichael stated the unidentified male turned around and began running back the direction from which he came and "Roddy" attempted to block him which was unsuccessful."

There were three men in two trucks chasing Arbery. Roddy's lawyer is trying to get him out of being charged with aggravated assault and felony murder by claiming he wasn't really involved in what the McMichaels were doing but Greg McMichael's statement to the police indicates he was.

Anyway, Arbery had already "about turned and run in the opposite direction". He got past Roddy and when the McMichaels intercepted him for the second time, he tried to get past them, too, by going around the pickup on the passenger side and keeping the truck between himself and the guy holding a shotgun. The guy with the shotgun, Travis, went around the truck door and to the front of the truck to intercept Arbery at close range. We don't see what happened next but obviously Travis and his shotgun got so close to Arbery they were both within arm's reach. And IMO you'd have to be pretty damn clueless to not realize just how threatening that was.

 

[Emily Lake]

The McMichaels would never have caught up with him. Arbery was an accomplished athlete.

{snip} I'm pretty sure that motor vehicles are still faster than even the most accomplished of accomplished athletes.

If Arbery sticks to the road, for sure. But that is a very rural area, he could have gone "off road" rather than run straight toward them. Why would he run straight toward two armed men ? Incidentally, the McMichaels' truck was facing the same direction as Abrey was running. If Arbrey had about turned and run in the opposite direction, the McMichaels would have had to get back in the truck and turn the truck around and try to catch up again.

You mean... like turn and run directly toward the second vehicle that was chasing him? The one we know was there because the person it is the one who filmed the whole thing?

 

[TSwizzle]

If Arbery sticks to the road, for sure. But that is a very rural area, he could have gone "off road" rather than run straight toward them. Why would he run straight toward two armed men ? Incidentally, the McMichaels' truck was facing the same direction as Abrey was running. If Arbrey had about turned and run in the opposite direction, the McMichaels would have had to get back in the truck and turn the truck around and try to catch up again.

You mean... like turn and run directly toward the second vehicle that was chasing him? The one we know was there because the person it is the one who filmed the whole thing?

I'm sure you get my point but are choosing to be obtuse. Carry on.

 

[laughing dog]

If Arbery sticks to the road, for sure. But that is a very rural area, he could have gone "off road" rather than run straight toward them. Why would he run straight toward two armed men ? Incidentally, the McMichaels' truck was facing the same direction as Abrey was running. If Arbrey had about turned and run in the opposite direction, the McMichaels would have had to get back in the truck and turn the truck around and try to catch up again.

You mean... like turn and run directly toward the second vehicle that was chasing him? The one we know was there because the person it is the one who filmed the whole thing?

I'm sure you get my point but are choosing to be obtuse. Carry on.

I am pretty sure almost everyone gets your point that you are talking out your ass but you.

 

[TSwizzle]

Anyway, Arbery had already "about turned and run in the opposite direction". He got past Roddy and when the McMichaels intercepted him for the second time, he tried to get past them, too, by going around the pickup on the passenger side and keeping the truck between himself and the guy holding a shotgun. The guy with the shotgun, Travis, went around the truck door and to the front of the truck to intercept Arbery at close range. We don't see what happened next but obviously Travis and his shotgun got so close to Arbery they were both within arm's reach. And IMO you'd have to be pretty damn clueless to not realize just how threatening that was.

It still doesn't change anything about how Arbery continued to run straight into danger despite the obvious threat.

 

[Arctish]

Anyway, Arbery had already "about turned and run in the opposite direction". He got past Roddy and when the McMichaels intercepted him for the second time, he tried to get past them, too, by going around the pickup on the passenger side and keeping the truck between himself and the guy holding a shotgun. The guy with the shotgun, Travis, went around the truck door and to the front of the truck to intercept Arbery at close range. We don't see what happened next but obviously Travis and his shotgun got so close to Arbery they were both within arm's reach. And IMO you'd have to be pretty damn clueless to not realize just how threatening that was.

It still doesn't change anything about how Arbery continued to run straight into danger despite the obvious threat.

You still don't know the layout of the neighborhood or the best way to avoid being boxed in by gun wielding yahoos who might be planning a lynching. You have no idea if slipping past the McMichaels was the best plan, the worst plan, or something in between. And you are ignoring what experts say people should do in that kind of situation.

Run. Hide. Fight. Keep an obstacle or obstruction between yourself and the shooter. But if you can't avoid him, fight like your life depends on it because it does.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Under Georgia law a private citizen can attempt to arrest someone if they've actually witnessed a crime or have immediate knowledge of a crime, but only under those specific circumstances. They may not attempt to arrest someone for what they saw in a video taken days or weeks before, or on suspicion that the person they're after was thinking about committing a crime in the future.

We have him observed leaving the construction site. If he was there to steal, whether he did so or not, he's guilty of a felony. It appears that the conditions for a citizen's arrest were met. They were idiots but it appears they were operating within the law.

How on earth is he guilty of a felony?

Why on earth are you presuming he was there to steal?

Oh, I forgot: he was black.

Georgia law: Entering a structure for the purposes of stealing is burglary--a felony--even if nothing is stolen.

And his behavior looks to me more like someone looking for stuff to steal than someone looking out of curiosity. He just entered the front "room", you won't learn much about the house from that.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Georgia law: Entering a structure for the purposes of stealing is burglary

You have no possible way of knowing what his "purpose" was.

And his behavior looks to me

There's your problem. Regardless, the home owner himself confirmed that nothing was stolen, as did the caller on the day he was killed. So we have TWO corroborating witnesses who confirm that his "purpose" was not to steal anything.

ETA: Here is additional surveilance footage (at about the 1:12 minute mark) from the same house showing Arbery (allegedly) doing much the same thing as on the day; just wandering aimlessly around. As can be seen in the upper left sections of the two top screens, there certainly appears to be shit there he could have stolen if that was his "purpose."

It also appears to be from four different occasions (but the top and bottom could be from the same events), so, if that's the case and including the day of his death, that would mean he was passing up shit to steal on at least five occasions, since the home owner confirmed nothing was ever taken (iow, meaning that there was in fact something to take in every instance).