Black Jogger Gunned Down In The Street

[Arctish]

Snippet:



So, no burglaries.

The first 911 call came on Oct. 25 and is classified as a trespass. The homeowner, Larry English, called 911 because someone was inside the home, and it activated cameras. The call lasted about 13 minutes and ended when the unidentified man walked off the property without taking anything.

The next call came nearly a month later on Nov. 18. English called again about someone inside and reportedly told dispatch, “he had the same issue with different people last night” indicating it isn’t the same person always inside. This call lasted about 20 minutes and ended with the officer changing it from a trespassing to extra watch, indicating officers would check the property.

The third call is on Jan. 1. Travis McMichael said someone stole a pistol from his unlocked truck; no suspect description is provided in the rather short CAD log and incident report.

The fourth call happened over a month later on Feb. 11 around 7:30 p.m. and shows that Travis McMichael got in his truck to see whoever it was inside the home. McMichael told police he watched the man run across several properties and back into the home under construction. Responding officers searched but found no one. In this report, homeowner Larry English is quoted as saying, “it appears the unknown male is only trespassing and plundering around as he has yet to see where anything has been taken.”

The final call came on Feb. 23, the day Arbery was killed.

The fourth call was made by Travis McMichael. That's the one you refer to here:

One report describes a light skinned black male with lots of tattoos on his arms.

So, not Arbery, but, more importantly (from the actual police record):

View attachment 27708

According to English, it was never Arbery. The light skinned man with tattoos all over his arms "appeared to be the same unknown man from all of the previous incidents."

Also important, that description--light skinned black male with tattoos all over both of his arms--was evidently given by Travis McMichael on February 11th, just twelve days before the fatal day. So, Travis, at least, must have known it wasn't the same guy he saw previously. Arbery is very clearly a dark skinned man and he was wearing a t-shirt on Feb 23 with both arms fully exposed.

For Travis to have described the other guy as being a light skinned black guy with tattoos all over both arms--at 7:30 pm--necessarily must have meant both details were significantly recognizable to him at night (sunset in Georgia on the 11th was 6:17 pm), which would in turn mean, of course, that during the fateful day--afternoon no less--it would have been very easy for Travis to see it wasn't the same guy.

But perhaps MOST importantly, there is also this from the Travis McMichael complaint on Feb 11:

View attachment 27710

The videos and description of the light skinned man with tattoos all over both of his arms was evidently widely distributed. So not only did Travis see the light skinned/tattooed man, and not only did English confirm that was the guy who had trespassed on his construction site several times previously, but the whole neighborhood knew that it was a light skinned black man with tattoos all over his arms!

And considering the fact that the elder McMichaels KNEW ARBERY from the case he worked just two years ago and had evidently seen the surveillance videos and/or knew that Arbery did not fit the description of a light skinned black guy with tattoos all over both of his arms, we're even deeper into the woods now.

BOTH Travis and his dad must have known that Arbery was NOT the light skinned black man with tattoos on his arms seen inside English's home--by Travis in person no less--the whole time they were chasing him.

ETA: So, tl;dr recap: there were never any burglaries and both Travis and his dad knew the man they were chasing in armed pursuit was NOT the man seen previously either by Travis or in the description disseminated throughout the neighborhood from English's surveillance cameras.

Which means they had absolutely no justification to pursue, let alone be armed, let alone kill him.

Wow.

No wonder all these reports of trespassing weren't released by the McMichaels' defense as soon as the video leaked.

 

[Emily Lake]

You honestly believe that this is long term elaborate conspiracy to frame and than murder some black guy?

I think it's a fairly common example of people jumping to the conclusion that a black male is a criminal with no evidence of it. In this case, they waaaaay overreacted, and proceeded to chase him down in trucks, threaten him with a shotgun, and ultimately kill him.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You have no possible way of knowing what his "purpose" was.



There's your problem. Regardless, the home owner himself confirmed that nothing was stolen, as did the caller on the day he was killed. So we have TWO corroborating witnesses who confirm that his "purpose" was not to steal anything.

Error: Moving the goalposts. The fact that he didn't take anything doesn't prove he didn't intend to.

Nor does your assertion that he intended to prove that he intended to. No one can know his intent absent any overt action, but the fact that the homeowner confirms there was something to take, but nothing was taken and the fact that he was evidently there on several occasions and never once took anything is a very strong indication that stealing was NOT his intent.

It was very clearly a structure that was open to anyone looking in. We know this not just from the video, but from what one of the caller's said. Arbery must have also noticed this, since he was, you know, inside the structure apparently on several occasions.

If your intent is to steal something, then you risk going into an open structure once to case the joint to see if there is anything worth stealing. You don't case the same joint four more times. You do it once and then the next time you go back is when you steal whatever it was you saw the first time that you thought was worth stealing.

You still haven't addressed the issue of what there was to steal. I see nothing in that video that's of much interest to a common thief. They're more after things like tools.

 

[laughing dog]

Nor does your assertion that he intended to prove that he intended to. No one can know his intent absent any overt action, but the fact that the homeowner confirms there was something to take, but nothing was taken and the fact that he was evidently there on several occasions and never once took anything is a very strong indication that stealing was NOT his intent.

It was very clearly a structure that was open to anyone looking in. We know this not just from the video, but from what one of the caller's said. Arbery must have also noticed this, since he was, you know, inside the structure apparently on several occasions.

If your intent is to steal something, then you risk going into an open structure once to case the joint to see if there is anything worth stealing. You don't case the same joint four more times. You do it once and then the next time you go back is when you steal whatever it was you saw the first time that you thought was worth stealing.

You still haven't addressed the issue of what there was to steal. I see nothing in that video that's of much interest to a common thief. They're more after things like tools.

There is no issue, since there is no evidence of his intent to steal anything and, has been repeated by numerous posters, the killer assholes knew nothing about this.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

My white wife and I (also white) had a white subcontractor hire white people to build our house. This was in the suburbs and no black people lived in the neighborhood. Black people don't generally live in our suburbs for historically racist reasons. Nowadays, the barriers are color blind and economic but because of the historical positioning and inheritance, it's extremely difficult for blacks to get out of traditionally black areas. [20 years later we DO have ONE black family in the neighborhood.] Now back to the narrative on our house construction... My white wife and I also took part in some small tasks of home construction on our property. White people came through unannounced often. Some white people came onto our property to fish in our pond. Another used to pop in twice a day to shoot the shit with the white construction workers or white subcontractor and that white guy would often be gifted free beers. He was a jobless white guy living in his white mom's basement. I think he was also hoping some of the white guys at the job site would hook him up with work. One time my white wife and I showed up unexpectedly at our property, that white guy was there checking out the progress on our house because he liked to do that from time to time. Another day, a white couple stopped by on our property unannounced to offer the white subcontractor money for the house because they didn't know the house was already being built for us white people.

 

[blastula]

So we have TWO corroborating witnesses who confirm that his "purpose" was not to steal anything.

No, that's not confirmation of his intent.

It most certainly is, aside from the fact that he's innocent until proven guilty. If your "purpose"--as Loren put it--is to steal something and that is why you are trespassing allegedly on multiple occasions and the home owner confirms that there was in fact shit to steal, then you steal something.

Not if he found nothing he wanted to steal or otherwise for any number of reasons decided not to do so then. DUH. This is such a basic, babyish logic fail. Why do you so often make such absolute statements that are in no way supported by the evidence? Why are you like this?

 

[Arctish]

Ex-detective charged in death of Ahmaud Arbery lost power to make arrests after skipping use-of-force training

Gregory McMichael’s law enforcement certification was suspended in 2019 after repeated failures to complete required training, according to records acquired by The Washington Post

Gregory McMichael’s certification was suspended in February 2019 after repeated failures to complete required training, according to documents from the Brunswick Judicial Circuit District Attorney’s Office, including a warning in 2014 that McMichael had neglected to finish mandatory firearms and use-of-force courses.....

...Gregory McMichael’s personnel documents provide an incomplete account of his employment history with Glynn County, but they indicate that he was stripped of his powers to arrest people on at least two occasions: once beginning in January 2006 — because of an undisclosed infraction the previous year — and again in February 2019, when the Georgia Peace Officer Standards and Training Council (POST) issued a suspension order for “failure to maintain training for the year 2018.”...

...The standards and training council notified district attorney Johnson, then McMichael’s boss, that McMichael had fallen short in various types of training hours in 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009 and 2010. McMichael did not complete the mandated use-of-force and firearms training in at least three of those years, according to the records.

The guy just couldn't find the time to complete the mandatory firearms and use-of-force training necessary for keeping his certification as a law enforcement officer?

He slacked off for years?

What's up with that?

 

[Toni]

It most certainly is, aside from the fact that he's innocent until proven guilty. If your "purpose"--as Loren put it--is to steal something and that is why you are trespassing allegedly on multiple occasions and the home owner confirms that there was in fact shit to steal, then you steal something.

Not if he found nothing he wanted to steal or otherwise for any number of reasons decided not to do so then. DUH. This is such a basic, babyish logic fail. Why do you so often make such absolute statements that are in no way supported by the evidence? Why are you like this?

Lolololol

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Ex-detective charged in death of Ahmaud Arbery lost power to make arrests after skipping use-of-force training

Gregory McMichael’s law enforcement certification was suspended in 2019 after repeated failures to complete required training, according to records acquired by The Washington Post

Gregory McMichael’s certification was suspended in February 2019 after repeated failures to complete required training, according to documents from the Brunswick Judicial Circuit District Attorney’s Office, including a warning in 2014 that McMichael had neglected to finish mandatory firearms and use-of-force courses.....

...Gregory McMichael’s personnel documents provide an incomplete account of his employment history with Glynn County, but they indicate that he was stripped of his powers to arrest people on at least two occasions: once beginning in January 2006 — because of an undisclosed infraction the previous year — and again in February 2019, when the Georgia Peace Officer Standards and Training Council (POST) issued a suspension order for “failure to maintain training for the year 2018.”...

...The standards and training council notified district attorney Johnson, then McMichael’s boss, that McMichael had fallen short in various types of training hours in 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009 and 2010. McMichael did not complete the mandated use-of-force and firearms training in at least three of those years, according to the records.

The guy just couldn't find the time to complete the mandatory firearms and use-of-force training necessary for keeping his certification as a law enforcement officer?

He slacked off for years?

What's up with that?

But he's white. Therefore, statistically speaking, he will be given benefit of being assumed to be a well-meaning person at every point in analysis of the situation. The statistical difference in perception by external persons is the real white privilege we're not talking about, but it's the elephant in the room, apparent in the arguments offered in the thread.

 

[barbos]

You honestly believe that this is long term elaborate conspiracy to frame and than murder some black guy?

I think it's a fairly common example of people jumping to the conclusion that a black male is a criminal with no evidence of it. In this case, they waaaaay overreacted, and proceeded to chase him down in trucks, threaten him with a shotgun, and ultimately kill him.

Everybody jumps including anti-redneck public here. In fact I think they jump 100% of time, that's why they are still jumping about Ferguson.
Video clearly shows that Arbery attacked man with a gun. Yes, men with guns created the whole situation but it is also clear that they had no intention to murder anyone.

 

[Arctish]

You honestly believe that this is long term elaborate conspiracy to frame and than murder some black guy?

I think it's a fairly common example of people jumping to the conclusion that a black male is a criminal with no evidence of it. In this case, they waaaaay overreacted, and proceeded to chase him down in trucks, threaten him with a shotgun, and ultimately kill him.

Everybody jumps including anti-redneck public here. In fact I think they jump 100% of time, that's why they are still jumping about Ferguson.
Video clearly shows that Arbery attacked man with a gun. Yes, men with guns created the whole situation but it is also clear that they had no intention to murder anyone.

That was not clear to Arbery.

Tell you what, barbos. Next time you have three guys in two trucks chasing after you for no apparent reason, and one of them gets out to confront you, and you go around on the other side of the truck to avoid him and he intercepts you with a shotgun while another one points the business end of a handgun at you at close range, you can tell us all how obvious it was that they had no intention to murder you.

 

[barbos]

Everybody jumps including anti-redneck public here. In fact I think they jump 100% of time, that's why they are still jumping about Ferguson.
Video clearly shows that Arbery attacked man with a gun. Yes, men with guns created the whole situation but it is also clear that they had no intention to murder anyone.

That was not clear to Arbery.

How do you know that?

Tell you what, barbos. Next time you have three guys in two trucks chasing after you for no apparent reason, and one of them gets out to confront you, and you go around on the other side of the truck to avoid him and he intercepts you with a shotgun while another one points the business end of a handgun at you at close range, you can tell us all how obvious it was that they had no intention to murder you.

Just stop with this nonsense. Arbery knew exactly why they were chasing him but stupidly decided to avoid talking to the police by attacking a guy with a gun.

 

[Arctish]

How do you know that?

Because it's not clear, period.

Tell you what, barbos. Next time you have three guys in two trucks chasing after you for no apparent reason, and one of them gets out to confront you, and you go around on the other side of the truck to avoid him and he intercepts you with a shotgun while another one points the business end of a handgun at you at close range, you can tell us all how obvious it was that they had no intention to murder you.

Just stop with this nonsense. Arbery knew exactly why they were chasing him but stupidly decided to avoid talking to the police by attacking a guy with a gun.

What did he know about the McMichael's intentions?

What did he know about Roddy's intentions?

Neither of the McMichaels is a police officer. Roddy isn't one, either. And since the McMichaels and Roddy didn't say anything about Arbery talking to the police, your assertion that he didn't want to is utterly groundless. He may have wanted to talk to the police very much, and hoped to live long enough to do it, so that he could have those three yahoos arrested for assaulting him.

 

[Derec]

Seems Arbery was a frequent visitor to the construction site.
Ahmaud Arbery case: Security footage shows visits to construction site

 

[Derec]

Lolololol

 

[Derec]

This was in the suburbs and no black people lived in the neighborhood.

Must have been either in a place like Vermont or New Hampshire or else a long time ago.

Nowadays, the barriers are color blind and economic but because of the historical positioning and inheritance, it's extremely difficult for blacks to get out of traditionally black areas.

How so? They just need to contact the seller's agent and put in an offer. Or, if they are renting, fill an application to lease an apartment.

 

[barbos]

Because it's not clear, period.

Not good enough.

Just stop with this nonsense. Arbery knew exactly why they were chasing him but stupidly decided to avoid talking to the police by attacking a guy with a gun.

What did he know about the McMichael's intentions?

Unless Arbery was somehow mentally impaired he knew that his intention were to arrest/detain him.

What did he know about Roddy's intentions?

Same thing.

Neither of the McMichaels is a police officer.

Did not matter to Michael Brown he attacked an uniformed police officer in a car. And since when police is forbidden to work undercover?
There should not be much difference. Police can be off duty and criminals on occasions wore police uniform.

Roddy isn't one, either. And since the McMichaels and Roddy didn't say anything about Arbery talking to the police,

We don't know that, and again, it does not really matter.

your assertion that he didn't want to is utterly groundless.

Yes, they are absolutely grounded in statistics, COPS would have been boring show if it were not true

He may have wanted to talk to the police very much, and hoped to live long enough to do it, so that he could have those three yahoos arrested for assaulting him.

I was not born yesterday, sorry.

 

[barbos]

Seems Arbery was a frequent visitor to the construction site.
Ahmaud Arbery case: Security footage shows visits to construction site

Even more videos? One of the previous video was with a different guy. It looks like this construction site was very popular with visitors, English should have been selling tickets.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

This was in the suburbs and no black people lived in the neighborhood.

Must have been either in a place like Vermont or New Hampshire or else a long time ago.

No. Nice try though.

Nowadays, the barriers are color blind and economic but because of the historical positioning and inheritance, it's extremely difficult for blacks to get out of traditionally black areas.

How so? They just need to contact the seller's agent and put in an offer. Or, if they are renting, fill an application to lease an apartment.

Huh???

Also, why did you not respond to the majority of my post? Didn't get it? Please try again.

 

[Derec]

Also, why did you not respond to the majority of my post? Didn't get it? Please try again.

It was kind of all over the place and irrelevant anyway, since your premise is incorrect. I see many black families living in nice suburban as well as nice urban neighborhoods.