Black Jogger Gunned Down In The Street

[Koyaanisqatsi]

It most certainly is, aside from the fact that he's innocent until proven guilty. If your "purpose"--as Loren put it--is to steal something and that is why you are trespassing allegedly on multiple occasions and the home owner confirms that there was in fact shit to steal, then you steal something.

Not if he found nothing he wanted to steal or otherwise for any number of reasons decided not to do so then. DUH.

Piercing counter argument.

This is such a basic, babyish logic fail.

We won't hold it against you.

Why do you so often make such absolute statements that are in no way supported by the evidence?

Why haven't you stopped beating your wife?

Why are you like this?

Right back at you.

 

[Jarhyn]

Not that the rest of it is any better. For example, do you have any evidence that white people can trespass on construction sites without getting in trouble for it?

I’ve observed it. I’m pretty sure I’ve done it.

My friends and I did it.

Construction sites are points of curiosity for many people. It's something you don't get to see often.

I've done it a couple times. I mean shit, if we're talking about white people trespassing, there's a whole culture built around it called "urbex" or "urban exploration".

But for the love of God don't do it if you're black or you're asking to get jail time or catch bullets. Or accused of being homeless...

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

So, no burglaries.

No, it doesn't say that.

It very clearly does say that. English literally states that nothing was stolen on any of the instances. So, no burglaries.

The report is unclear about who gave that description, but it reads like English gave it.

Actually, the police officer makes it clear that it is Travis that also identifies the same man:




The officer is responding to Travis' call, after all, not English's, so the officer would be extremely incompetent if he had reported materially different information from what the actual witness he was dispatched to get a statement from had provided.

"The unknown male appears to be [description]..." and then, "On this date the witness Travis McMichael, stated the unknown male was wearing..."

Clearly the police officer is referring to the same "unknown male" or else he should be fired for gross incompetence, because he'd be making a report of Travis' eyewitness account that made reference to two entirely different suspects.

And Travis said during his 911 call that he could not describe the man he saw other than he was tall, about 6 ft.

Also incorrect.

Nearly everything you said here is unsubstantiated.

Actually, it is substantiated by the evidence I've presented. Do you not know what "substantiated" means?

We have no idea if Gregory had any memory or thought of his prior contact with Arbery at this later date.

The evidence suggests other.

And whether Travis got a good enough look at the man on 2/11 to distinguish him on 2/23 is doubtful.

Again, the evidence suggest other. This is from his 2/11 Feb call. Note that the guy Travis is calling about is still in his line of sight while he's on the call to 911:

I guess he doesn’t realize we’re here. He’s got the damn lights on right now he’s got a flashlight walking through the house.

Does he? OK. You just stay where you’re at...
...
So what happened when you first saw him?

He [indaud] behind a bush. He was coming through somebody’s yard. He was trying to sneak behind a bush. When I drove on by, he got behind a port... they have here. When I backed up he looked at me. I went ahead and backed up to the road. And he reached in his pocket. I kinda watched him. he went back in the house. And then stepped back out and went into the house. That’s when I called y’all. But we’ve been having a lot of burglaries and break-ins around here lately, and I had a pistol stolen Jan. 1 actually and he, he, I’ve never seen this guy before in the neighborhood. We always keep and eye and you know sure enough there’s one or [inaud] through the yards you know.

So he evidently had plenty of time and clear line of sight to distinguish him. And, again, there is the police report and how it noted that the description had been widely circulated; a fact that McMichaels confirms by stating there had been a "lot" of break-ins. We know that the ONLY break-ins were at English's home and Travis' truck.

So he could only be referring to the English surveillance footage and the description provided, which, again, the police officer confirms.

Which means they had absolutely no justification to pursue, let alone be armed, let alone kill him.

I don't believe they had the right to kill Arbery, but that has nothing to do with whether or not Arbery ever trespassed on the property before.

And that has nothing to do with what I said. Trespassing is not cause for civilians to arm themselves and pursue, let alone threaten with a shotgun, let alone fire the shotgun repeatedly.

If it's ever proven Arbery was ever there before trying to steal stuff, what will you say then?

That it's irrelevant unless the McMicheals actually witnessed him in the act of stealing something and that's why he ran and they pursued, but even then they should not have pursued, let alone armed themselves and then pursued.

 

[Emily Lake]

Arbery knew exactly why they were chasing him but stupidly decided to avoid talking to the police by attacking a guy with a gun.

How do you know this?

Unless Arbery was somehow mentally impaired he knew that his intention were to arrest/detain him.

How would Arbery have known this?

 

[Emily Lake]

Holding a gun is not brandishing.

In this case, it definitely is brandishing.

Greg Hill & Associates

Brandishing means showing the weapon, or exhibiting it to another person, “in a rude, angry or threatening manner” or using it in a “fight or quarrel.” One does not need to point the weapon at the other person.

USA Carry - Brandishing and Improper Exhibition of a Firearm

Very generally, however, for an operating definition “brandishing” means to display, show, wave, or exhibit the firearm in a manner which another person might find threatening.

Aizman Law Firm

You took out, exhibited or drew a firearm, or other deadly weapon.
In the presence of another person.
And you did so in a rude, threatening or angry manner, or, you did so unlawfully while engaged in a fight or argument.
You were not acting in self-defense or defending another person.

 

[Jarhyn]

Arbery knew exactly why they were chasing him but stupidly decided to avoid talking to the police by attacking a guy with a gun.

How do you know this?

Unless Arbery was somehow mentally impaired he knew that his intention were to arrest/detain him.

How would Arbery have known this?

I mean, shit, if I was black and saw two white dudes chasing me with guns in a truck in Georgia, I'd think "fuckers are gonna try murdering me."

Often the only opportunity to end a situation. Wherein people are playing around with you to make you suffer before they murder you is going to be complete resistance early. I'd rather die shot in a fight over a gun than be fucked with and humiliated and toyed with for a few minutes before being shot like a bitch.

 

[ruby sparks]

Arbery knew exactly why they were chasing him but stupidly decided to avoid talking to the police by attacking a guy with a gun.

Ok I missed this.

So the victim died because of his own stupidity.

You’re quite something, you really are.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

My white wife and I (also white) had a white subcontractor hire white people to build our house. This was in the suburbs and no black people lived in the neighborhood. Black people don't generally live in our suburbs for historically racist reasons. Nowadays, the barriers are color blind and economic but because of the historical positioning and inheritance, it's extremely difficult for blacks to get out of traditionally black areas. [20 years later we DO have ONE black family in the neighborhood.] Now back to the narrative on our house construction... My white wife and I also took part in some small tasks of home construction on our property. White people came through unannounced often. Some white people came onto our property to fish in our pond. Another used to pop in twice a day to shoot the shit with the white construction workers or white subcontractor and that white guy would often be gifted free beers. He was a jobless white guy living in his white mom's basement. I think he was also hoping some of the white guys at the job site would hook him up with work. One time my white wife and I showed up unexpectedly at our property, that white guy was there checking out the progress on our house because he liked to do that from time to time. Another day, a white couple stopped by on our property unannounced to offer the white subcontractor money for the house because they didn't know the house was already being built for us white people.

Around here at one point three of the four houses adjacent to us were occupied by blacks. (Since then one moved to California, one went to a one-story house and then a nursing home, one went to assisted living. Now we have one white, two Chinese and one short term rental.) Escape is certainly possible if you don't mess your life up.

 

[Derec]

I mean, shit, if I was black and saw two white dudes chasing me with guns in a truck in Georgia, I'd think "fuckers are gonna try murdering me."

Why would you think that? White on black murders are relatively rare. You would be more entitled to think that if you saw two black dudes with guns.

 

[Derec]

Oh I understand Americans take trespassing seriously

No kidding.

 

[Derec]

Your argument is one-dimensional racist propaganda.

Wrong. Yours is.

Poor people living in highly populated areas are killing others at a higher proportion.

First of all, black != poor. Second, that is no justification. Most poor people never kill anybody.

Historically, why were blacks pushed into the cities and not allowed in the suburbs where there is higher economic advantage and lower population density? If whites were all stuck in the cities with higher crime and less economic advantage and high population density, and blacks were part of a ruling class structure by and large, in gated communities, protected out in suburbs and mansions, it would be the opposite.

More attempts at apologetics for murder.
No matter what excuses you come up with, black homicide rate is ~5x as high as that of whites, and relevant to interracial killings, there are twice as many black-on-white killings as there are white-on-black killings.

No matter why you think that is, facts are facts. And these facts put a lie to the oft-repeated (especially by #BLM types) claim that black people should somehow be afraid to do things like jog because they might be murdered by white people. Again, for those slow on the uptake,

TWICE AS MANY BLACK PEOPLE MURDER WHITE PEOPLE AS VICE VERSA.


To ignore than and claim that somehow there is an epidemic of white people killing black people for no reason is "one-dimensional racist propaganda" indeed!

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Not that the rest of it is any better. For example, do you have any evidence that white people can trespass on construction sites without getting in trouble for it?

I gave evidence of white people trespassing and not getting in trouble for it. I guess white privilege is so in-grained and implicit, you couldn't even see it.

 

[Derec]

I gave evidence of white people trespassing and not getting in trouble for it. I guess white privilege is so in-grained and implicit, you couldn't even see it.

Anecdotes are not evidence. I am sure some black people have trespassed on construction sites without getting in trouble too. What does that prove?

 

[Arctish]

I gave evidence of white people trespassing and not getting in trouble for it. I guess white privilege is so in-grained and implicit, you couldn't even see it.

Anecdotes are not evidence. I am sure some black people have trespassed on construction sites without getting in trouble too. What does that prove?

That the McMichaels overreacted to alleged trespassing allegedly committed by Arbery, committed aggravated assault when they blocked his travel and accosted him at gunpoint, and are rightly being charged with felony murder.

 

[Derec]

That the McMichaels overreacted to alleged trespassing allegedly committed by Arbery, committed aggravated assault when they blocked his travel and accosted him at gunpoint, and are rightly being charged with felony murder.

No, the fact that some people (of any race) trespass without getting in trouble does not prove this was felony murder. What is this, Chewbacca prosecution?

 

[Arctish]

That the McMichaels overreacted to alleged trespassing allegedly committed by Arbery, committed aggravated assault when they blocked his travel and accosted him at gunpoint, and are rightly being charged with felony murder.

No, the fact that some people (of any race) trespass without getting in trouble does not prove this was felony murder. What is this, Chewbacca prosecution?

The fact that some people (of any race) trespass without getting in trouble, and the ones who do get in trouble are only issued a citation, makes the McMichael's reaction to a possible trespasser extreme.

The fact trespassing isn't a felony in Georgia makes the McMichael's harassment and attempt to detain Arbery while brandishing a shotgun aggravated assault, not a lawful citizen's arrest. *

The fact that Arbery was killed by Travis McMichael while Travis and his father were apparently committing a felony makes his killing an apparent felony murder.

You were very quick to uncover that shoplifting charge against Arbery. Why so slow to find out that Greg McMichael had his certification as a law enforcement officer revoked twice? And why so slow with the information that the surveillance videos from the house under construction show a light skinned black man with tattoos doing the trespassing on all the previous occasions where identifying characteristics of the trespasser can be seen?

What's up with that?

* If they had good reason to suspect Arbery had just committed a felony, that would be a different matter. Did they? Or did they think he had been trespassing at the construction site and decided to go after him?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I gave evidence of white people trespassing and not getting in trouble for it. I guess white privilege is so in-grained and implicit, you couldn't even see it.

Anecdotes are not evidence. I am sure some black people have trespassed on construction sites without getting in trouble too. What does that prove?

You said where's the proof x can be y. I gave an example of x being y. That's proof. You didn't ask for proof x is ALWAYS y and rightly so as I had never claimed x are always y either and you were referring to my point. Therefore, my original point stands and you are just misconstruing things because you are confused or to confuse people.

 

[barbos]

Not that the rest of it is any better. For example, do you have any evidence that white people can trespass on construction sites without getting in trouble for it?

I’ve observed it. I’m pretty sure I’ve done it.

My friends and I did it.

Construction sites are points of curiosity for many people. It's something you don't get to see often.

Did you go at night?

 

[Arctish]

My friends and I did it.

Construction sites are points of curiosity for many people. It's something you don't get to see often.

Did you go at night?

Did Arbery?

 

[barbos]

My friends and I did it.

Construction sites are points of curiosity for many people. It's something you don't get to see often.

I've done it a couple times. I mean shit, if we're talking about white people trespassing, there's a whole culture built around it called "urbex" or "urban exploration".

How old were you? I have done it countless time when I was 10 year old. Not when I was 25 and I was not stealing anything.