Black Jogger Gunned Down In The Street

[barbos]

If I was any color and was chased by two white dudes with guns after being spotted trespassing construction site I would knew immediately why.

He had no reason to even believe they had spotted him, and he was having an unauthorised look around a construction site, not stealing plutonium. In grown-up countries, that doesn't trigger being chased by an armed posse.

OK, my understanding is that he WAS spotted (by someone other than these two) and video shows it. And again The fact that he was not stealing is irrelevant.
One time at night I was spotted with an open laptop over drive through ATM machine. When cop showed up I knew exactly what he was going to ask and say.
I was not surprised and did not try to run or reach for his gun. I told him what I was doing, he checked my ID and we both left the scene.

All Arbery had to do is to talk to these guys. the first time they tried to stop him and then simply wait for the police.

 

[Jokodo]

If I was any color and was chased by two white dudes with guns after being spotted trespassing construction site I would knew immediately why.

He had no reason to even believe they had spotted him, and he was having an unauthorised look around a construction site, not stealing plutonium. In grown-up countries, that doesn't trigger being chased by an armed posse.

OK, my understanding is that he WAS spotted (by someone other than these two) and video shows it. And again The fact that he was not stealing is irrelevant.
One time at night I was spotted with an open laptop over drive through ATM machine. When cop showed up I knew exactly what he was going to ask and say.
I was not surprised and did not try to run or reach for his gun. I told him what I was doing, he checked my ID and we both left the scene.

All Arbery had to do is to talk to these guys. the first time they tried to stop him and then simply wait for the police.

Were you chased down by a posse of armed, gun-wielding civilians?

 

[ruby sparks]

If I was any color and was chased by two white dudes with guns after being spotted trespassing construction site I would knew immediately why.

He had no reason to even believe they had spotted him, and he was having an unauthorised look around a construction site, not stealing plutonium. In grown-up countries, that doesn't trigger being chased by an armed posse.

It’s possible he connected the two things, but it’s possible he didn’t.

If it hadn’t been broad daylight, I might lean more towards the former.

But either is possible I would say.

It would be interesting to find out what was shouted by the pursuers after they had stopped ahead of him. The audio in the video clip is not clear but presumably investigators can improve it?

And are they claiming to have shouted anything before they overtook him? Something like, ‘stop, wait, put your hands up, or other warnings?

 

[ruby sparks]

OK, my understanding is that he WAS spotted (by someone other than these two) and video shows it. And again The fact that he was not stealing is irrelevant.
One time at night I was spotted with an open laptop over drive through ATM machine. When cop showed up I knew exactly what he was going to ask and say.
I was not surprised and did not try to run or reach for his gun. I told him what I was doing, he checked my ID and we both left the scene.

All Arbery had to do is to talk to these guys. the first time they tried to stop him and then simply wait for the police.

Were you chased down by a posse of armed, gun-wielding civilians?

Barbos is merely trying to equate two different types of situation to try to justify his repeated focus on attributing some blame to the victim in this one.

Also, I’m guessing he’s not black, so he might not be putting himself fully in the position of a young black American man being chased along a road by a pick-up truck with armed white men in or on it.

 

[ruby sparks]

This criticism of the victim’s actions is very reminiscent of victim blaming in other types of situation (not necessarily involving either shootings, or that have a potential racial component) where the wrongdoings of a perpetrator are acknowledged and condemned, but are apologised for because of things the victim, male or female, did or didn’t do.

Imo it’s potentially dangerous territory.

It’s not imo unacceptable to bring such things up (the killer’s defence lawyer will do it and is fully entitled and justified to do so, and it may quite rightly affect a jury’s assessment) but when it comes from people on discussion boards who imo have tendency to do it quite a lot in certain situations and who in at least one case are an individual I very strongly consider to clearly and obviously be an out-and-out racism denier, I am suspicious.

I think others just do it a bit too much, so that it ends up being overplayed in the discussion.

 

[barbos]

OK, my understanding is that he WAS spotted (by someone other than these two) and video shows it. And again The fact that he was not stealing is irrelevant.
One time at night I was spotted with an open laptop over drive through ATM machine. When cop showed up I knew exactly what he was going to ask and say.
I was not surprised and did not try to run or reach for his gun. I told him what I was doing, he checked my ID and we both left the scene.

All Arbery had to do is to talk to these guys. the first time they tried to stop him and then simply wait for the police.

Were you chased down by a posse of armed, gun-wielding civilians?

No , but I would have been..... by a posse of armed gun-wielding cops if I decided to run.

Speaking of posse of armed gun-wielding cops. It actually happened with a white guy I knew. The idiot was driving and did not stop quick enough, well, he basically kept on driving until few police cars started following him. When he finally stopped he had bunch cops pointing guns on him. Again white russian guy, they got him doing bunch of hours of community work.

 

[barbos]

OK, my understanding is that he WAS spotted (by someone other than these two) and video shows it. And again The fact that he was not stealing is irrelevant.
One time at night I was spotted with an open laptop over drive through ATM machine. When cop showed up I knew exactly what he was going to ask and say.
I was not surprised and did not try to run or reach for his gun. I told him what I was doing, he checked my ID and we both left the scene.

All Arbery had to do is to talk to these guys. the first time they tried to stop him and then simply wait for the police.

Were you chased down by a posse of armed, gun-wielding civilians?

Barbos is merely trying to equate two different types of situation to try to justify his repeated focus on attributing some blame to the victim in this one.

Also, I’m guessing he’s not black, so he might not be putting himself fully in the position of a young black American man being chased along a road by a pick-up truck with armed white men in or on it.

Blacks are rare in Russia but I look like I could be a terrorist if that counts. I can't complain, was stopped once for running stop sign, they let me go.

 

[ruby sparks]

Were you chased down by a posse of armed, gun-wielding civilians?

No , but I would have been..... by a posse of armed gun-wielding cops if I decided to run..

In other words, just no, even with your subsequent hypothetical amendment, and you were describing a substantially different scenario, from a different culture and context.

How that was meant to be much use here I do not know.

 

[barbos]

Were you chased down by a posse of armed, gun-wielding civilians?

No , but I would have been..... by a posse of armed gun-wielding cops if I decided to run..

In other words, no, and you were describing a substantially different scenario.

It's not very different. I knew what i was doing was highly suspicious and that's why cop was walking toward me.
Arbery knew that he was spotted trespassing just moments before he was approached by two armed white guys. If he could not connect these two dots then I don't know what to say.

 

[ruby sparks]

It's not very different.

Catch yourself on. It is still very different even with your new added hypothetical. Just for starters, it still wasn’t the police.

And we were not only talking about him connecting the dots though, were we? Not when you said the gunman had to defend himself from an attack.

I think it would help if you didn’t ignore that this was a young black man being chased by white men with guns in the USA. There is a potential added dimension in a country where mutual racial suspicion, fear and distrust are often common factors.

Here, back in the day, it might have been a bit like a Catholic being chased by Protestants with guns in a mainly Protestant area or town for example. If you were the Catholic guy, you would not necessarily expect that they were going to behave lawfully and reasonably towards you, so you would be very fearful, even if you realised that they were after you for trespassing.

 

[barbos]

It's not very different.

Catch yourself on. It is still very different even with your new added hypothetical.

We were not only talking about him connecting the dots.

Sorry I am not buying "blacks are afraid of lynching" If anything it's opposite now. Larry English is afraid of lynching or something of the sort.

 

[Jokodo]

OK, my understanding is that he WAS spotted (by someone other than these two) and video shows it. And again The fact that he was not stealing is irrelevant.
One time at night I was spotted with an open laptop over drive through ATM machine. When cop showed up I knew exactly what he was going to ask and say.
I was not surprised and did not try to run or reach for his gun. I told him what I was doing, he checked my ID and we both left the scene.

All Arbery had to do is to talk to these guys. the first time they tried to stop him and then simply wait for the police.

Were you chased down by a posse of armed, gun-wielding civilians?

No ...

you can stop right there. None of what follows makes the two situations remotely comparable.

 

[Arctish]

Arbery knew that he was spotted trespassing just moments before he was approached by two armed white guys. If he could not connect these two dots then I don't know what to say.

1. Please provide evidence Arbery knew he was spotted trespassing. Support your claim.

2. Arbery was not "approached". He was chased after and cut off by three white men in two trucks, one of whom got out of his truck with a shotgun in hand as Arbery, with Roddy in pursuit, made the decision to go around the truck on the other side. The guy brandishing the shotgun then intercepted him at extremely close range.

3. If you can't connect the dots and see that Arbery had good reason to fear for his life, I do know what to say but it's against forum rules to say it.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

All Arbery had to do is to talk to these guys. the first time they tried to stop him and then simply wait for the police.

Works fine if he's innocent. Doesn't work so well if he's guilty.

 

[Toni]

I mean, shit, if I was black and saw two white dudes chasing me with guns in a truck in Georgia, I'd think "fuckers are gonna try murdering me."

Why would you think that? White on black murders are relatively rare. You would be more entitled to think that if you saw two black dudes with guns.

I don't recall any case in the last 30 years where white dudes would go out and simply shoot black people in broad daylight or even at night.
I don't count mass shooters and islamic terrorists.

So: not Dylan Roof, then.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/charleston-shooting-churc_n_7608738

And certainly no white men would ever pull into a playground and shoot a black child playing there:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/charleston-shooting-churc_n_7608738

Or a child sleeping in his own bed

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/08/09/amir-worship-chicago-swat-raid-knee-lawsuit/

 

[Toni]

All Arbery had to do is to talk to these guys. the first time they tried to stop him and then simply wait for the police.

Works fine if he's innocent. Doesn't work so well if he's guilty.

WTF?

 

[Arctish]

All Arbery had to do is to talk to these guys. the first time they tried to stop him and then simply wait for the police.

Works fine if he's innocent. Doesn't work so well if he's guilty.

Works fine if they get ahead of him and wait calmly for him to approach, tell him they're making a citizen's arrest for trespassing, maintain a polite distance and professional demeanor as they wait for the police to arrive, and don't brandish weapons.

It doesn't work if they chase after him and cut him off in trucks, never say why they're trying to stop him, and brandish weapons, because that shit's illegal and it looks like kidnapping or armed robbery or a lynching.

 

[Toni]

Actually, the home owner believes that Arbery was stopping to get water--there are two water sources on the property and Arbery can be seen moving between them and you can hear the sound of water on the tapes. Which would make sense: Someone going for a run in the afternoon in GA would probably want to stop for some water if he knew there was some handy:

https://www.firstcoastnews.com/arti...-site/77-e60149c3-db0b-4318-83a8-c9b44c32558c

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Actually, the home owner believes that Arbery was stopping to get water--there are two water sources on the property and Arbery can be seen moving between them and you can hear the sound of water on the tapes. Which would make sense: Someone going for a run in the afternoon in GA would probably want to stop for some water if he knew there was some handy:

https://www.firstcoastnews.com/arti...-site/77-e60149c3-db0b-4318-83a8-c9b44c32558c

So basically he's like the white guys fishing in my backyard except he knows trespassing puts him in danger. So does contact with white people with guns or contact with police. The white guys, on the other hand, can trespass, steal fish out in the open. These things never are documented as crimes in the first place.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

All Arbery had to do is to talk to these guys. the first time they tried to stop him and then simply wait for the police.

Works fine if he's innocent.

Tell that to Michael Donald:

The same night as the first mistrial was declared, Klan members burned a three-foot cross on the Mobile County courthouse lawn. After a meeting, Bennie Hays' son, Henry Hays (age 26), and James Llewellyn "Tiger" Knowles (age 17), armed with a gun and rope, drove around Mobile looking for a black person to attack.

At random, they spotted Michael Donald while he was walking home after buying his sister a pack of cigarettes. They lured him over to their car by asking him for directions to a local club, and then forced Donald into the car at gunpoint. The men then drove out to another county and took him to a secluded area in the woods. At this moment, Donald attempted to escape, knocking away Hays' gun and trying to run into the woods. The men pursued Donald, attacked him and beat him with a tree limb. Hays wrapped a rope around Donald's neck and pulled on it to strangle him while Knowles continued to beat Donald with a tree branch. Once Donald had stopped moving, Hays slit his throat three times to make sure he was dead. The men left Donald's body hanging from a tree in a mixed-race neighborhood in Mobile. The tree was on Herndon Street, across from a house owned by Klan leader Bennie Jack Hays, the father of Henry Hays.

Lest anyone think that was something from the 1930's it was from 1981. I was in Junior High School. That same year, Raiders of the Lost Ark came out and Jessie's Girl dominated the airwaves.