Black Jogger Gunned Down In The Street

[zorq]

I don't know if you think this shit is a joke. Are you seriously suggesting that Arberry should have gotten himself a white friend in order to avoid getting his ass beat by the police?

Have you ever been tased? It's no joke. People die every fucking year from getting tased.

Arbery himself was gunned down in the streets. And you're posting Chris Rock clips? You deserve utmost disdain.

Watch the both videos before you post again.

Read the US constitution before you post again.

 

[ruby sparks]

This video was probably released to tarnish the image of Arberry, but it really shows how corrupt and probably racist this police department's culture is.

Apparently Arbery's lawyer's released to show Arbery being harassed.

Which just goes to show you can see the same footage two ways.

Imo, the cop with the taser definitely over-reacted. The first cop (with the bodycam) was very reasonable, even after Arbery starts to complain and get a bit aggressive. We don't get to see at what point or why Arbery starts to complain to them, but it looks like he said something while they were temporarily back at their car.

 

[ZiprHead]

I don't know what video you watched, but the one you linked shows a largely compliant if somewhat agitated young man who feels he's being searched without probable cause, and an overreacting police officer.

And white people can walk into a government building with semi-automatic long guns and shut the place down without consequences.

 

[laughing dog]

This video was probably released to tarnish the image of Arberry

Yes, and it does excellent job at that.

Wow, another example of smearing the victim with irrelevant detail.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

I don't think they were being racist though.

Really? What do you think would have happened if this guy were leaning up against the same car? Think the cops would have even stopped, let alone tased him?

 

[barbos]

This video was probably released to tarnish the image of Arberry, but it really shows how corrupt and probably racist this police department's culture is.

Apparently Arbery's lawyer's released to show Arbery being harassed.

That's some dumb lawyers, or they simply had no choice since it was going to be released anyway so they decided to release and pretend as if it paints pretty picture of Arbery (I does not)

Which just goes to show you can see the same footage two ways.

Imo, the cop with the taser definitely over-reacted. The first cop (with the bodycam) was very reasonable, even after Arbery starts to complain and get a bit aggressive. We don't get to see at what point or why Arbery starts to complain to them, but it looks like he said something while they were temporarily back at their car.

First cop checked his ID and told him "Have a nice day" planning to leave the scene. Arbery decided to harass him for some reasons after that.
We can't hear what he said but from the context it looks like he said something like "Why were you fucking with me". The cop tried to explain but Arbery simply exploded.

Yeah, taser cop is a real clown, I am not defending him.

 

[TSwizzle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v7o_6uI9R0

What is the relevancy of this video to the incident in the OP ?

 

[barbos]

I don't know what video you watched, but the one you linked shows a largely compliant if somewhat agitated young man who feels he's being searched without probable cause, and an overreacting police officer.

And white people can walk into a government building with semi-automatic long guns and shut the place down without consequences.

All in accordance with constitution

 

[barbos]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v7o_6uI9R0

What is the relevancy of this video to the incident in the OP ?

It shows that Arbery was not afraid to needlessly harass police.

 

[TSwizzle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v7o_6uI9R0

What is the relevancy of this video to the incident in the OP ?

It shows that Arbery was not afraid to needlessly harass police.

I'm not convinced that is what Teh Gruaniad video shows, it could have been the other way round, police needlessly harassing Arbrey. But so what ? How does this video add or change anyone's perception about the incident in the OP ? The story is pretty straight forward, some busybodies stuck their nose in where it didn't belong, got out of their depth and now there is a dead guy.

 

[Emily Lake]

I don't think they were being racist though.

Really? What do you think would have happened if this guy were leaning up against the same car? Think the cops would have even stopped, let alone tased him?

I think that ruby sparks' view is that racism isn't the same thing as implicit bias. I share that view.

I also, however, think that implicit bias is a much larger and pernicious barrier than racism. The subconscious and unacknowledged nature of it makes it much more difficult to weed out.

 

[Emily Lake]

WTF?

If he's a thief he's now on police radar.

Actually, he's dead, with absolutely zero evidence of him having been a thief at all.

 

[ruby sparks]

I don't think they were being racist though.

Really? What do you think would have happened if this guy were leaning up against the same car? Think the cops would have even stopped, let alone tased him?

I think that ruby sparks' view is that racism isn't the same thing as implicit bias. I share that view.

I also, however, think that implicit bias is a much larger and pernicious barrier than racism. The subconscious and unacknowledged nature of it makes it much more difficult to weed out.

Yes.

Even implicit bias is very hard to spot just from one short video featuring people you don’t know, in one situation or context you might not appreciate fully.

So I’m not saying it wasn’t racism and I’m not saying there wasn’t implicit bias.

I do think the second cop was taser trigger happy though, but even then I have no idea how dangerous it is for police in that specific area.

After thinking about it a bit, I do feel the video more shows police maltreatment than anything else. If the taser had worked, I think it could easily be argued that the police officer was out of order, and if the taser had for example killed Arbery, there might have been serious repercussions.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

I don't think they were being racist though.

Really? What do you think would have happened if this guy were leaning up against the same car? Think the cops would have even stopped, let alone tased him?

I think that ruby sparks' view is that racism isn't the same thing as implicit bias. I share that view.

What is the distinction, keeping in mind that white Americans do more illicit drugs than black Americans? There is some indication of what you're arguing here:

...blacks are arrested for drug possession more than three times as often as whites, according to a 2009 report from the advocacy group Human Rights Watch.
...
Jamie Fellner, author of the Human Rights Watch report, offered an explanation for this discrepancy.

“The race issue isn’t just that the judge is going, ‘Oh, black man, I’m gonna sentence you higher,’” she said. “The police go into low-income minority neighborhoods and that’s where they make most of their drug arrests. If they arrest you, now you have a ‘prior,’ so if you plead or get arrested again, you’re gonna have a higher sentence. There’s a kind of cumulative effect.”

But it begs the question as to why the police make most of their drug arrests in low-income minority neighborhoods in the first place when whites do more drugs than people of color. Is that driven by "implicit bias" or racism?

And, again, do you think the same cops would have had the same bias if they saw Timothy Brooks in the same park hanging out by his car, or do you think it more likely that if they stopped at all, it would only be to ask him if his car broke down or he otherwise needs help getting out of there, not if he is selling drugs? Timothy Brooks is a convicted drug dealer from Philadelphia, in case you didn't click the link.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I think that ruby sparks' view is that racism isn't the same thing as implicit bias. I share that view.

What is the distinction, keeping in mind that white Americans do more illicit drugs than black Americans?

Implicit indicates without motive. Racism indicates intent.

But it begs the question as to why the police make most of their drug arrests in low-income minority neighborhoods in the first place when whites do more drugs than people of color. Is that driven by "implicit bias" or racism?

I'd argue inertia from older day racism.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

This video was probably released to tarnish the image of Arberry, but it really shows how corrupt and probably racist this police department's culture is.

Apparently Arbery's lawyer's released to show Arbery being harassed.

You mean for Arbery's family. And, no, I don't think he did (my bold):

The attorney for Arbery’s mother, Lee Merritt, said the release of the video is an effort to shift attention from the killers to the victim.

“Ahmaud was stopped in a park minding his own business one day,” Arbery family attorney Lee Merritt said about the 2017 incident. “He was committing no crime, but for whatever reason, whoever is releasing this information, that’s where they want the focus of the media to be. We’re not going to play that game.”

 

[barbos]

I think that ruby sparks' view is that racism isn't the same thing as implicit bias. I share that view.

What is the distinction, keeping in mind that white Americans do more illicit drugs than black Americans

Or blacks are more likely to lie on drug use surveys.

 

[Emily Lake]

I think that ruby sparks' view is that racism isn't the same thing as implicit bias. I share that view.

What is the distinction, keeping in mind that white Americans do more illicit drugs than black Americans? There is some indication of what you're arguing here:

...blacks are arrested for drug possession more than three times as often as whites, according to a 2009 report from the advocacy group Human Rights Watch.
...
Jamie Fellner, author of the Human Rights Watch report, offered an explanation for this discrepancy.

“The race issue isn’t just that the judge is going, ‘Oh, black man, I’m gonna sentence you higher,’” she said. “The police go into low-income minority neighborhoods and that’s where they make most of their drug arrests. If they arrest you, now you have a ‘prior,’ so if you plead or get arrested again, you’re gonna have a higher sentence. There’s a kind of cumulative effect.”

But it begs the question as to why the police make most of their drug arrests in low-income minority neighborhoods in the first place when whites do more drugs than people of color. Is that driven by "implicit bias" or racism?

And, again, do you think the same cops would have had the same bias if they saw Timothy Brooks in the same park hanging out by his car, or do you think it more likely that if they stopped at all, it would only be to ask him if his car broke down or he otherwise needs help getting out of there, not if he is selling drugs? Timothy Brooks is a convicted drug dealer from Philadelphia, in case you didn't click the link.

Largely implicit bias, but likely some actual racism as well. The distinction is fuzzy... but here are a few points:

Implicit bias is generally subconscious, and the person holding the bias isn't even aware that they have it. Racism is usually more a conscious recognition that a person thinks one group is of lesser value or worth than another.

Implicit bias is internalized at very young ages, and is frequently a result of books, television, imagery, and other means of communicating "this is how it works". Most Gen-X and older people grew up with black people being portrayed in film and TV as being criminals, gang members, etc. Bloods & Crips were a big deal when I was young, and there was a lot of portrayal of inner city black people being involved in those gangs. That kind of imagery seeps in and forms our subconscious ideas of what to expect from people based on those images. It shifts our subconscious evaluation of "likely behavior". As a result of that sort of thing, there's a general stereotype that all else being equal, black men are more likely to be violent or criminals, and white men are more likely to have made a mistake or have no ill intent. One of the effects of this is that black men who are not violent or criminals tend to be viewed as exceptions rather than representative.

If a person approaches someone with their subconscious expectation, and the person does not meet that expectation, implicit bias allows them to change their behavior toward them - they don't continue to treat that individual black man as if he's a potentially dangerous person and to treat them "normally". Racism, on the other hand, generally doesn't result in altered behavior after interacting with someone.

Another really important element of racial bias as opposed to racism is that bias tends to be held across the population, even within the people toward whom the bias is disadvantaging. Go look up the baby doll test, for example. Children, both black and white, were given two identical dolls, one black and one white. They were then asked to pick which baby is the good baby, and which is the bad baby. Almost universally, all of the children said that the white doll was the good one, and the black one was the bad one - even the black children. The subconscious stereotypes aren't isolated to just one group or the other, they span races.

 

[ruby sparks]

You mean for Arbery's family. And, no, I don't think he did (my bold):

The attorney for Arbery’s mother, Lee Merritt, said the release of the video is an effort to shift attention from the killers to the victim.

“Ahmaud was stopped in a park minding his own business one day,” Arbery family attorney Lee Merritt said about the 2017 incident. “He was committing no crime, but for whatever reason, whoever is releasing this information, that’s where they want the focus of the media to be. We’re not going to play that game.”

Ah. Ok. It seems I misinterpreted this from below the YouTube video:

“In a joint statement to the Guardian, lawyers working for the Arbery family described the video as a clear depiction of 'a situation where Ahmaud was harassed by Glynn county police officers'.”

 

[laughing dog]

I think that ruby sparks' view is that racism isn't the same thing as implicit bias. I share that view.

What is the distinction, keeping in mind that white Americans do more illicit drugs than black Americans

Or blacks are more likely to lie on drug use surveys.

Now why would you think that any particular race is more likely to lie on an anonymous survey than other races?