Black Jogger Gunned Down In The Street

[Toni]

Arbery had a history of a single attempt at shoplifting, for which he was on probation when he died. Prior to that, he was on probation for having carried a pistol onto a high school campus a year after he graduated from high school. THAT is his criminal history.

There is more than that. He had several run-ins with the law, he just wasn't prosecuted for everything.

Most Black people in this country have regular "run-ins with the law", a polite way to describe constant police harassment. Luckily, in the United States, all citizens are considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. You also cannot be considered guilty of a future crime based on a previous conviction.

Arbery's behavior wasn't that of most black people's. Here's what the defense found, starting at page 3 of this filing.

https://www.glynncounty.org/DocumentCenter/View/69162/114-Notice-of-Intent

1. On March 14, 2013, security camera video from South Georgia Technical College reveals Mr. Arbery provided a friend a pair of wire cutters to use as a weapon as he, the friend, and others waited for another group of men to appear. When the other group arrived, Mr. Arbery and the others engaged in a violent fight;

2. On December 3, 2013, Glynn County Police reports reveal Mr. Arbery unlawfully concealed a handgun into his waistband and tried to gain admission into a high school basketball game. Officers noticed the butt of the gun protruding from his waistband and ordered for him to stop. Mr. Arbery ran from police, which resulted in two officers sustaining injuries: one because Mr. Arbery scratched his arm to get away; the other because the officer fell and sustained injuries during his chase of Mr. Arbery. Also, the Chief of Police reported that as he chased Mr. Arbery in his vehicle, Mr. Arbery reached into his waistband as if searching for his firearm. Police eventually surrounded Mr. Arbery and charged him. He was later convicted for several felony and misdemeanor charges, including gun possession 2.and obstruction;

3. On October 7, 2017, Glynn County Police body cam video reveals an officer spotted a sole car parked in a park area known for drug activity. The officer could not see who was in the car due to the occupant being inside the car and the car having tinted windows. When he approached the car, the occupant, Mr. Arbery, got out. The officer asked Mr. Arbery for his ID. Within a minute and thirty seconds of the officer holding Mr. Arbery's license to check his background, Mr. Arbery said, "Nobody not even driving the car. What the fuck you coming over here for? The fuck you come over here and fuck with me for?" When the officer began to explain his purpose to Mr. Arbery, Mr. Arbery quickly changed his conduct, launched forward at the officer, crossing several feet to confront the officer, and threw out his arms. The officer had to put his arm out to stop Mr. Arbery from colliding with him. Mr. Arbery cursed the officer and then told the officer, "Bitch you hit me with that shit, bitch, you gonna be fucked up," This caused the officer to tell Mr. Arbery he was going to search him for weapons and a second officer to attempt to use a taser on Mr. Arbery. He was not arrested;

4. In June of 2018, 911 audio reveals Mr. Arbery's mother, Wanda Jones, called 911 due to Mr. Arbery's refusal to give Ms. Jones her car keys. She made the call from inside her car while Mr. Arbery stood outside her car. During her call to 911, she cautioned the operator that Mr. Arbery had a mental condition that had "escalated" over time. Additionally, Ms. Jones told the officer that Mr. Arbery might get violent with the officers due to his mental illness, if they were too confrontational with Mr. Arbery or tried to arrest him or take him into custody;

5. On August 21, 2018, Burke County witness reports and Burke County Office body cam video reveals Mr. Arbery was caught by a stay-athome mom who saw him in her backyard looking into the windows of her cars. She called police who found Mr. Arbery at his grandmother's residence. Police officers arrived to give Mr. Arbery a trespass warning about his conduct and behavior. When confronted by the officers about the eye-witness report, he lied said he had "gone running in the street," and then became aggressive, confrontational, and repeatedly threatened that he would "whip the officer's ass" if they didn't leave him alone. He was not arrested;

6. On October 23, 2018, Burke County reports and Burke County officer body cam video reveal Mr. Arbery and two juveniles were confronted in a vacant mobile home by the Burke County Sheriffs Office. Mr. Arbery ran when confronted by the authorities. He was later caught and lied, stating he was just out running, when asked about being in the mobile home. He was charged with misdemeanor obstruction for running when given lawful commands to stop;

7. On December 1, 2018, Glynn County officer body cam video reveals Mr. Arbery was arrested, charged, and later convicted for felony shoplifting by entering a store and attempting to steal a television;

8. In 2019 and 2020, witness interviews reveal Mr. Arbery was seen by his own neighbors, removing screen from windows and trying enter their homes through the windows. When confronted by the neighbors about his conduct and behavior, he appeared "nervous or agitated" and "trying to figure out where to go." Then he said he was interested in buy the house but "took off running." On the second occasion, the home owner observed Mr. Arbery trying to gain entrance through a door. They again tried to talk to Mr. Arbery but he would not speak or say anything, he simply ran away;

9. In 2019 and 2020/ local convenience store witness interviews reveal Mr. Arbery became known as "the jogger" for his repeated conduct and behavior of running up, stretching in front in, and then entering several convenience stores where he would grab items and run out before he could be caught; and

10. In 2020, witness cell phone video reveals Mr. Arbery was confronted at a convenience store by employees about his theft conduct and behavior, Mr. Arbery, cornered about his thefts, chose to fight a man who worked on location at the adjacent truck stop who tried to confront him about it.

Damn, I got tired from reading it.

Arbery had a history of a single attempt at shoplifting, for which he was on probation when he died. Prior to that, he was on probation for having carried a pistol onto a high school campus a year after he graduated from high school. THAT is his criminal history.

There is more than that. He had several run-ins with the law, he just wasn't prosecuted for everything.

Most Black people in this country have regular "run-ins with the law", a polite way to describe constant police harassment. Luckily, in the United States, all citizens are considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. You also cannot be considered guilty of a future crime based on a previous conviction.

Arbery's behavior wasn't that of most black people's. Here's what the defense found, starting at page 3 of this filing.

https://www.glynncounty.org/DocumentCenter/View/69162/114-Notice-of-Intent

1. On March 14, 2013, security camera video from South Georgia Technical College reveals Mr. Arbery provided a friend a pair of wire cutters to use as a weapon as he, the friend, and others waited for another group of men to appear. When the other group arrived, Mr. Arbery and the others engaged in a violent fight;

2. On December 3, 2013, Glynn County Police reports reveal Mr. Arbery unlawfully concealed a handgun into his waistband and tried to gain admission into a high school basketball game. Officers noticed the butt of the gun protruding from his waistband and ordered for him to stop. Mr. Arbery ran from police, which resulted in two officers sustaining injuries: one because Mr. Arbery scratched his arm to get away; the other because the officer fell and sustained injuries during his chase of Mr. Arbery. Also, the Chief of Police reported that as he chased Mr. Arbery in his vehicle, Mr. Arbery reached into his waistband as if searching for his firearm. Police eventually surrounded Mr. Arbery and charged him. He was later convicted for several felony and misdemeanor charges, including gun possession 2.and obstruction;

3. On October 7, 2017, Glynn County Police body cam video reveals an officer spotted a sole car parked in a park area known for drug activity. The officer could not see who was in the car due to the occupant being inside the car and the car having tinted windows. When he approached the car, the occupant, Mr. Arbery, got out. The officer asked Mr. Arbery for his ID. Within a minute and thirty seconds of the officer holding Mr. Arbery's license to check his background, Mr. Arbery said, "Nobody not even driving the car. What the fuck you coming over here for? The fuck you come over here and fuck with me for?" When the officer began to explain his purpose to Mr. Arbery, Mr. Arbery quickly changed his conduct, launched forward at the officer, crossing several feet to confront the officer, and threw out his arms. The officer had to put his arm out to stop Mr. Arbery from colliding with him. Mr. Arbery cursed the officer and then told the officer, "Bitch you hit me with that shit, bitch, you gonna be fucked up," This caused the officer to tell Mr. Arbery he was going to search him for weapons and a second officer to attempt to use a taser on Mr. Arbery. He was not arrested;

4. In June of 2018, 911 audio reveals Mr. Arbery's mother, Wanda Jones, called 911 due to Mr. Arbery's refusal to give Ms. Jones her car keys. She made the call from inside her car while Mr. Arbery stood outside her car. During her call to 911, she cautioned the operator that Mr. Arbery had a mental condition that had "escalated" over time. Additionally, Ms. Jones told the officer that Mr. Arbery might get violent with the officers due to his mental illness, if they were too confrontational with Mr. Arbery or tried to arrest him or take him into custody;

5. On August 21, 2018, Burke County witness reports and Burke County Office body cam video reveals Mr. Arbery was caught by a stay-athome mom who saw him in her backyard looking into the windows of her cars. She called police who found Mr. Arbery at his grandmother's residence. Police officers arrived to give Mr. Arbery a trespass warning about his conduct and behavior. When confronted by the officers about the eye-witness report, he lied said he had "gone running in the street," and then became aggressive, confrontational, and repeatedly threatened that he would "whip the officer's ass" if they didn't leave him alone. He was not arrested;

6. On October 23, 2018, Burke County reports and Burke County officer body cam video reveal Mr. Arbery and two juveniles were confronted in a vacant mobile home by the Burke County Sheriffs Office. Mr. Arbery ran when confronted by the authorities. He was later caught and lied, stating he was just out running, when asked about being in the mobile home. He was charged with misdemeanor obstruction for running when given lawful commands to stop;

7. On December 1, 2018, Glynn County officer body cam video reveals Mr. Arbery was arrested, charged, and later convicted for felony shoplifting by entering a store and attempting to steal a television;

8. In 2019 and 2020, witness interviews reveal Mr. Arbery was seen by his own neighbors, removing screen from windows and trying enter their homes through the windows. When confronted by the neighbors about his conduct and behavior, he appeared "nervous or agitated" and "trying to figure out where to go." Then he said he was interested in buy the house but "took off running." On the second occasion, the home owner observed Mr. Arbery trying to gain entrance through a door. They again tried to talk to Mr. Arbery but he would not speak or say anything, he simply ran away;

9. In 2019 and 2020/ local convenience store witness interviews reveal Mr. Arbery became known as "the jogger" for his repeated conduct and behavior of running up, stretching in front in, and then entering several convenience stores where he would grab items and run out before he could be caught; and

10. In 2020, witness cell phone video reveals Mr. Arbery was confronted at a convenience store by employees about his theft conduct and behavior, Mr. Arbery, cornered about his thefts, chose to fight a man who worked on location at the adjacent truck stop who tried to confront him about it.

Damn, I got tired from reading it.

I'm sure.

I'm sure that you are too tired to read the link that I provided, listing the backgrounds of the men who murdered Arbery, too.

 

[Arctish]

From a point of view of Arbery these 3 idiots were legally detaining him.
And even from a point of view of court illegality is not that obvious.
It rests on the fact that they did not see him trespassing with their own eyes. That's pretty weak offence. Someone saw him and told them, they trusted him and in the end they chased the RIGHT guy.

No, as far as I understand, the people who are claiming citizen's arrest must have firsthand knowledge that a felony is being committed. In this case, at best, they knew misdemeanor trespassing had been committed. They knew a burglary had been committed at this residence at some point in the past, but that doesn't justify them apprehending any trespasser after the fact.

You forgot theft, reports of theft.

The law required a person making a citizen's arrest to either witness a felony crime or have immediate knowledge of one, and a reason to believe the person they were arresting committed the crime and was in the process of fleeing the scene of the crime.

Immediate knowledge of a crime that had just been committed, not having heard about a crime that was committed days or weeks or months ago, and reason to believe the person they were arresting was in the process of fleeing the scene, not mere suspicion that the person might have done something some time ago.

All the McMichaels had was a suspicion that Arbery had trespassed that day (a misdemeanor) , which wasn't enough. And Bryan didn't even have that.

Monday morning quarterbacking much?

Reports of the theft and regular trespassing in the past months.
Someone calls and says black guy trespassing a construction site which have been trespassed before.
So why not go and citizen's arrest him? There is a law which lets you do that.
yes, they did not go through the check list properly, but who does? there was no time.
They thought the guy would stop and they will wait for police to arrive. Did not go that way unfortunately. Guy turned out to be extremely aggressive.

I was informing you, once again, what the law regarding citizen's arrests said at the time the McMichaels and Bryan pursued and murdered Arbery.

The McMichels had no legal authority to detain or arrest Arbery no matter what rumors they heard or what suspicions they harbored. Even Travis McMichael admitted that on the witness stand. And considering the McMichaels didn't call the cops, what makes you think they thought the cops would show up before they killed Arbery?

You appear to be posting homemade bullshit. It bears little resemblance to the known facts.

 

[barbos]

I was informing you, once again, what the law regarding citizen's arrests said at the time the McMichaels and Bryan pursued and murdered Arbery.

And I am informing you that I explained to you earlier why that is irrelevant.

 

[Arctish]

I was informing you, once again, what the law regarding citizen's arrests said at the time the McMichaels and Bryan pursued and murdered Arbery.

And I am informing you that I explained to you earlier why that is irrelevant.

it's irrelevant to your argument because your arguments are based on fantasy.

I am reposting it in case someone new to the discussion wanders in here and doesn't realize you are completely ignoring every fact presented in court.

 

[J842P]

No, because without a valid claim of citizen's arrest, what they did was simply aggravated assault, and false imprisonment. You cannot arrest someone randomly, that is a crime, only police can arrest people legally, and that heavily controlled by law. And if your arrest involves chasing them down with a gun and a pickup truck, that is aggravated assault (again, pretty much a straightforward application of assault laws). Both of these are felonies. Take your pick.

You expect too much from these idiots. It was not random arrest.

No, I can expect people to follow laws against violent crime. It doesn't matter if it was "random", what matters is if it was legally justified. It wasn't, quite clearly, from all the basic facts. And citizen's arrest laws go way too far as it is, it is a good thing that there was a complete overhaul in Georgia following this, but even *despite the laws that existed at the time*, they are still guilty.

 

[J842P]

From a point of view of Arbery these 3 idiots were legally detaining him.
And even from a point of view of court illegality is not that obvious.
It rests on the fact that they did not see him trespassing with their own eyes. That's pretty weak offence. Someone saw him and told them, they trusted him and in the end they chased the RIGHT guy.

No, as far as I understand, the people who are claiming citizen's arrest must have firsthand knowledge that a felony is being committed. In this case, at best, they knew misdemeanor trespassing had been committed. They knew a burglary had been committed at this residence at some point in the past, but that doesn't justify them apprehending any trespasser after the fact.

You forgot theft, reports of theft.

I haven't forgotten them. I mentioned burglary, that is the thefts that were reported. But it doesn't matter, they are not relevant. They do not legally justify you doing what the McMichaels and their neighbor did, which was clearly aggravated assault.

 

[J842P]

There were ditches on the sides of the road, and houses with fences beyond that.

And if Arbery really, really believed he was going to get shot, wouldn't it have been prudent to take that option rather than run towards the guys brandishing guns?

No.

The recommendation from law enforcement and safety experts is Run, Hide, Fight. First try to run away. If you can't then try to hide. If that fails then fight for your life.

Arbery tried to run, had no chance to hide, and was forced to fight for his life by the man who got out of his truck with a shotgun, shell already racked, to assault him at close range.

Look, I think the important point is that it doesn't matter if what Arbery did ultimately increased his chances of dying, because it is still a clear-cut case of murder according to the law. But the whole "run, hide, fight" advice is for how to handle spree shooters. Probably not the best advice for handling what was going on in the Arbery case, but again, it doesn't matter.

 

[barbos]

No, because without a valid claim of citizen's arrest, what they did was simply aggravated assault, and false imprisonment. You cannot arrest someone randomly, that is a crime, only police can arrest people legally, and that heavily controlled by law. And if your arrest involves chasing them down with a gun and a pickup truck, that is aggravated assault (again, pretty much a straightforward application of assault laws). Both of these are felonies. Take your pick.

You expect too much from these idiots. It was not random arrest.

No, I can expect people to follow laws against violent crime. It doesn't matter if it was "random", what matters is if it was legally justified. It wasn't, quite clearly, from all the basic facts. And citizen's arrest laws go way too far as it is, it is a good thing that there was a complete overhaul in Georgia following this, but even *despite the laws that existed at the time*, they are still guilty.

It does not matter whether or not it was justified arrest. People survive unjustified arrests every day. Arbery is dead because of his actions. In fact, it's a miracle that he was not killed before by the police or by someone else.

 

[J842P]

From a point of view of Arbery these 3 idiots were legally detaining him.
And even from a point of view of court illegality is not that obvious.
It rests on the fact that they did not see him trespassing with their own eyes. That's pretty weak offence. Someone saw him and told them, they trusted him and in the end they chased the RIGHT guy.

No, as far as I understand, the people who are claiming citizen's arrest must have firsthand knowledge that a felony is being committed. In this case, at best, they knew misdemeanor trespassing had been committed. They knew a burglary had been committed at this residence at some point in the past, but that doesn't justify them apprehending any trespasser after the fact.

You forgot theft, reports of theft.

The law required a person making a citizen's arrest to either witness a felony crime or have immediate knowledge of one, and a reason to believe the person they were arresting committed the crime and was in the process of fleeing the scene of the crime.

Immediate knowledge of a crime that had just been committed, not having heard about a crime that was committed days or weeks or months ago, and reason to believe the person they were arresting was in the process of fleeing the scene, not mere suspicion that the person might have done something some time ago.

All the McMichaels had was a suspicion that Arbery had trespassed that day (a misdemeanor) , which wasn't enough. And Bryan didn't even have that.

Monday morning quarterbacking much?

Reports of the theft and regular trespassing in the past months.
Someone calls and says black guy trespassing a construction site which have been trespassed before.
So why not go and citizen's arrest him? There is a law which lets you do that.
yes, they did not go through the check list properly, but who does? there was no time.
They thought the guy would stop and they will wait for police to arrive. Did not go that way unfortunately. Guy turned out to be extremely aggressive.

No, there isn't a law that says you can do what they did, barbos. They decided to run after him with guns and a truck, which actually hit him and tried to run into him, as admitted to by the driver! None of that is legal. This isn't "monday-morning quarterbacking". This is just a plain application of standard laws, laws that exist for good reason.

Being stupid and not understanding a law doesn't justify a murder.

 

[J842P]

Arbery had a history of a single attempt at shoplifting, for which he was on probation when he died. Prior to that, he was on probation for having carried a pistol onto a high school campus a year after he graduated from high school. THAT is his criminal history.

There is more than that. He had several run-ins with the law, he just wasn't prosecuted for everything.

Most Black people in this country have regular "run-ins with the law", a polite way to describe constant police harassment. Luckily, in the United States, all citizens are considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. You also cannot be considered guilty of a future crime based on a previous conviction.

That is just silly. Why, oh why, is everything so silly.

 

[barbos]

From a point of view of Arbery these 3 idiots were legally detaining him.
And even from a point of view of court illegality is not that obvious.
It rests on the fact that they did not see him trespassing with their own eyes. That's pretty weak offence. Someone saw him and told them, they trusted him and in the end they chased the RIGHT guy.

No, as far as I understand, the people who are claiming citizen's arrest must have firsthand knowledge that a felony is being committed. In this case, at best, they knew misdemeanor trespassing had been committed. They knew a burglary had been committed at this residence at some point in the past, but that doesn't justify them apprehending any trespasser after the fact.

You forgot theft, reports of theft.

The law required a person making a citizen's arrest to either witness a felony crime or have immediate knowledge of one, and a reason to believe the person they were arresting committed the crime and was in the process of fleeing the scene of the crime.

Immediate knowledge of a crime that had just been committed, not having heard about a crime that was committed days or weeks or months ago, and reason to believe the person they were arresting was in the process of fleeing the scene, not mere suspicion that the person might have done something some time ago.

All the McMichaels had was a suspicion that Arbery had trespassed that day (a misdemeanor) , which wasn't enough. And Bryan didn't even have that.

Monday morning quarterbacking much?

Reports of the theft and regular trespassing in the past months.
Someone calls and says black guy trespassing a construction site which have been trespassed before.
So why not go and citizen's arrest him? There is a law which lets you do that.
yes, they did not go through the check list properly, but who does? there was no time.
They thought the guy would stop and they will wait for police to arrive. Did not go that way unfortunately. Guy turned out to be extremely aggressive.

No, there isn't a law that says you can do what they did, barbos. They decided to run after him with guns and a truck, which actually hit him and tried to run into him, as admitted to by the driver! None of that is legal. This isn't "monday-morning quarterbacking". This is just a plain application of standard laws, laws that exist for good reason.

Being stupid and not understanding a law doesn't justify a murder.

They are guilty of illegal citizen's arrest, even maybe kidnapping. But not murder.

 

[J842P]

No, because without a valid claim of citizen's arrest, what they did was simply aggravated assault, and false imprisonment. You cannot arrest someone randomly, that is a crime, only police can arrest people legally, and that heavily controlled by law. And if your arrest involves chasing them down with a gun and a pickup truck, that is aggravated assault (again, pretty much a straightforward application of assault laws). Both of these are felonies. Take your pick.

You expect too much from these idiots. It was not random arrest.

No, I can expect people to follow laws against violent crime. It doesn't matter if it was "random", what matters is if it was legally justified. It wasn't, quite clearly, from all the basic facts. And citizen's arrest laws go way too far as it is, it is a good thing that there was a complete overhaul in Georgia following this, but even *despite the laws that existed at the time*, they are still guilty.

It does not matter whether or not it was justified arrest. People survive unjustified arrests every day. Arbery is dead because of his actions. In fact, it's a miracle that he was not killed before by the police or by someone else.

You see, it does matter as to whether or not they were guilty of murder, it is critically relevant, in fact.

 

[barbos]

You see, it does matter as to whether or not they were guilty of murder, it is critically relevant, in fact.

I don't follow you here.

US has weird laws where people who drive a car to bank robbery charged in murder if someone gets killed. I kinda understand the logic here. But in other cases it could become very convoluted. Suppose you are trying to cross the street and do it illegally (red light). So car tries to avoid hitting you, hits a truck which is transporting fuel, resulting in fire, lots of people die, you survive but get convicted in ..... mass murder...... because you tried to cross a street on red light.

 

[J842P]

You see, it does matter as to whether or not they were guilty of murder, it is critically relevant, in fact.

I don't follow you here.

US has weird laws where people who drive a car to bank robbery charged in murder if someone gets killed. I kinda understand the logic here. But in other cases it could become very convoluted. Suppose you are trying to cross the street and do it illegally (red light). So car tries to avoid hitting you, hits other car which is transporting fuel, resulting in fire, lots of people die, you survive but get convicted in ..... mass murder...... because you tried to cross a street on red light.

Felony murder applies to specifically enumerated felonies. Like aggravated assault, armed robbery, etc. Not to misdemeanors and traffic violations.

 

[barbos]

You see, it does matter as to whether or not they were guilty of murder, it is critically relevant, in fact.

I don't follow you here.

US has weird laws where people who drive a car to bank robbery charged in murder if someone gets killed. I kinda understand the logic here. But in other cases it could become very convoluted. Suppose you are trying to cross the street and do it illegally (red light). So car tries to avoid hitting you, hits other car which is transporting fuel, resulting in fire, lots of people die, you survive but get convicted in ..... mass murder...... because you tried to cross a street on red light.

Felony murder applies to specifically enumerated felonies. Like aggravated assault, armed robbery, etc. Not to misdemeanors and traffic violations.

Arbery assaulted a guy with a gun. Travis McMichael had no intention to murder anyone.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

You see, it does matter as to whether or not they were guilty of murder, it is critically relevant, in fact.

I don't follow you here.

US has weird laws where people who drive a car to bank robbery charged in murder if someone gets killed. I kinda understand the logic here. But in other cases it could become very convoluted. Suppose you are trying to cross the street and do it illegally (red light). So car tries to avoid hitting you, hits other car which is transporting fuel, resulting in fire, lots of people die, you survive but get convicted in ..... mass murder...... because you tried to cross a street on red light.

Felony murder applies to specifically enumerated felonies. Like aggravated assault, armed robbery, etc. Not to misdemeanors and traffic violations.

Arbery assaulted a guy with a gun. Travis McMichael had no intention to murder anyone.

He did what he intended to do, it didn't randomly happen to him. He had several choices and he made terrible decisions at each point.

 

[Gospel]

In this thread, we have Imaginary ditches, imaginary burglaries, imaginary aggression, and a lot of other imaginary shit. White people have been using their imagination to kill black people for a long time.

 

[Gospel]

Arbery assaulted a guy with a gun. Travis McMichael had no intention to murder anyone.

Brandishing a shotgun before anyone attacked you is a good way to say "hey dude, I'm not trying to kill you".

 

[atrib]

From a point of view of Arbery these 3 idiots were legally detaining him.
And even from a point of view of court illegality is not that obvious.
It rests on the fact that they did not see him trespassing with their own eyes. That's pretty weak offence. Someone saw him and told them, they trusted him and in the end they chased the RIGHT guy.

No, as far as I understand, the people who are claiming citizen's arrest must have firsthand knowledge that a felony is being committed. In this case, at best, they knew misdemeanor trespassing had been committed. They knew a burglary had been committed at this residence at some point in the past, but that doesn't justify them apprehending any trespasser after the fact.

You forgot theft, reports of theft.

The law required a person making a citizen's arrest to either witness a felony crime or have immediate knowledge of one, and a reason to believe the person they were arresting committed the crime and was in the process of fleeing the scene of the crime.

Immediate knowledge of a crime that had just been committed, not having heard about a crime that was committed days or weeks or months ago, and reason to believe the person they were arresting was in the process of fleeing the scene, not mere suspicion that the person might have done something some time ago.

All the McMichaels had was a suspicion that Arbery had trespassed that day (a misdemeanor) , which wasn't enough. And Bryan didn't even have that.

Monday morning quarterbacking much?

Reports of the theft and regular trespassing in the past months.
Someone calls and says black guy trespassing a construction site which have been trespassed before.
So why not go and citizen's arrest him? There is a law which lets you do that.

No, there isn't. You are wrong again. Nothing Arbery did at the construction site was a crime. Simply stepping on an unsecured construction site (no fence, no locked gate, no signs) is not a crime. Trespassing can become a crime under two conditions:

Trespassing: misdemeanor - If the person steps on a property after he has previously been given a trespass notice by the owner, that may be a misdemeanor (but not a felony).

Trespassing: felony: if a person intends to commit a felony while trespassing, that may be a crime. But intent can only be demonstrated through the person's actions - he would have to commit a felony on the property.

Arbery had never been given a trespass notice by the site's owner, or by anybody else. We know this from the owner's testimony. Therefore, his being on the site was not a misdemeanor.
Arbery had never committed a felony at the site, he hadn't stolen or vandalized anything. We know this from the owner's testimony. Therefore, his being on the site was not a felony trespass.

A police officer would have no lawful reason to arrest Arbery for being on the construction site. The most the officer could have done was issued a trespass notice, if the owner of the property agreed. Therefore, the McMichaels had no lawful basis to arrest Arbery.

yes, they did not go through the check list properly, but who does? there was no time.
They thought the guy would stop and they will wait for police to arrive. Did not go that way unfortunately. Guy turned out to be extremely aggressive.

No, he wasn't aggressive. That is a flat out lie. He tried to run away for over 5 minutes. He turned to defend himself only in the last few seconds of the encounter after he had been cornered, after 5 minutes of aggravated assaults committed on him.

You don't know the facts, You don't know the law. But you insist on making up shit just to be contrary.

 

[atrib]

No, because without a valid claim of citizen's arrest, what they did was simply aggravated assault, and false imprisonment. You cannot arrest someone randomly, that is a crime, only police can arrest people legally, and that heavily controlled by law. And if your arrest involves chasing them down with a gun and a pickup truck, that is aggravated assault (again, pretty much a straightforward application of assault laws). Both of these are felonies. Take your pick.

You expect too much from these idiots. It was not random arrest.

No, I can expect people to follow laws against violent crime. It doesn't matter if it was "random", what matters is if it was legally justified. It wasn't, quite clearly, from all the basic facts. And citizen's arrest laws go way too far as it is, it is a good thing that there was a complete overhaul in Georgia following this, but even *despite the laws that existed at the time*, they are still guilty.

It does not matter whether or not it was justified arrest. People survive unjustified arrests every day. Arbery is dead because of his actions. In fact, it's a miracle that he was not killed before by the police or by someone else.

What an incredibly stupid thing to say. I continue to be amazed that you have managed to survive this long despite being burdened with such an obvious lack of connection to reality.