Breakdown In Civil Order

[Jimmy Higgins]

The fifth largest economy in the world ;

In LA County, more than 500 homeless RVs line the streets for miles, creating a scene that looks more like a third-world country than the United States. It’s the largest concentration of homeless RVs in LA County. And on Tuesday, community leaders started cleaning it up, thanks to one man, who says it’ll only scratch the surface in what needs a serious overhaul. Trashed-out, broken-down homeless RVs, blocking sidewalks and lanes of traffic, infested with filth, drugs, weapons and crime.
"At night, it’s crazy around here!" says Jose Sanchez who says he chooses to be homeless and live in his RV. From Broadway to 140th to Redondo Beach Blvd, derelict boats, surfboards and trailers, where puppies roam free, parking is free and rules don’t apply. "The septic tanks are being emptied by a few individuals who charge $50-$75 to take the waste out of the septic in the RVs and then they’re disposing of that waste into the storm drains on the streets so we often have back-up overflow," says Matthews. Some homeless fires here are accidents, others "pay-back," like one today, captured on surveillance. The burned-out RVs just become part of the roadside décor. One on 135th burned down 4 months ago and is still here.

Fox

Largest state in US has most homeless people. News at 11! According to HUD, California have 3 of 10 homeless people in America, while only having 1.2 of 10, being about 2.5 times higher than the population share.

I would be very curious about homelessness rates relative to housing prices. Florida allegedly has seen a notable drop in homelessness. This is attributed to building cheaper housing and keeping people from being homeless too long.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

What is that number on how many we have in prison these days? Isn't part of the problem we have too many in prison?

The opposite. We have too few in prision. We have a decarceration problem.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-st...-the-largest-declines-in-prisoner-populations

The overall number of prisoners in the country reduced by 11% in the decade from 2009-2019, to 1.4 million people.

And the consequence of this policy:

Missouri prosecutor asked to resign after Tennessee teen athlete loses legs in crash

The Missouri attorney general called Wednesday for the resignation of St. Louis' elected prosecutor, after a motorist who repeatedly violated his bond condition

fox17.com

His bond violations included letting his GPS monitor die and breaking terms for his house arrest, according to court records, which show he violated bond at least seven times since Feb. 1, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reported.

Court officials said they didn’t know Riley had violated his bond because prosecutors had never filed a motion to revoke it.

That doesn't remotely support your point. If 140,000 people were released from prison and 1,400 of them committed violent crimes, is that evidence to support the continued incarceration of the 138,600 others?

The point was we have too many people in jail, in the justice system, hogging resources required to ensure we do have the ones we need to be in prison.

 

[Oleg]

The point was we have too many people in jail, in the justice system, hogging resources required to ensure we do have the ones we need to be in prison.

That's a cost. But what is the cost of crime? I'd guess that the cost to the public for property damage, medical bills, theft, murder, emotional trauma, rape, etc., is pretty high. By keeping criminals locked up society saves alot.

 

[lpetrich]

The US has a relatively high incarceration rate for a developed country.

Different demographics.

Evidence-free assertion. What do you think happens in other industrialized countries?

are you willing to have your taxes substantially increased to pay for the construction of new prisons and the compensation for more prison workers?

Absolutely. Most people would.

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Oleg]

The US has a relatively high incarceration rate for a developed country.

Different demographics.

Evidence-free assertion. What do you think happens in other industrialized countries?

Black males commit violent crime at rates far surpassing their percentage of population. The US has the highest percentage of black males of any developed country.

 

[lpetrich]

The point was we have too many people in jail, in the justice system, hogging resources required to ensure we do have the ones we need to be in prison.

That's a cost. But what is the cost of crime? I'd guess that the cost to the public for property damage, medical bills, theft, murder, emotional trauma, rape, etc., is pretty high. By keeping criminals locked up society saves alot.

While doing absolutely nothing for the victims themselves. Almost as if the victims deserved the crimes that they suffer. I think that we ought to care for crime victims directly, even if that means subsidizing their care. If we subsidize cops and jails, then we can also subsidize direct care for crime victims.

I'd prefer punishments for small crimes that allow the punished ones to live relatively normal lives, something like what we do for traffic violations. Punishments like paying restitution and being excluded from where they committed their crimes. Should people found guilty of drunken driving be sentenced to a mandatory minimum of 20 years in prison with no possibility of parole?

People commit a lot more small crimes than big crimes, and the criminal justice system should be adjusted accordingly.

 

[Oleg]

Almost as if the victims deserved the crimes that they suffer.

How does it help a victim if we let the criminal who hurt/killed them go free?

I think that we ought to care for crime victims directly, even if that means subsidizing their care.

We kinda of do already. When someone is murdered their children will likely become wards of the state.

People commit a lot more small crimes than big crimes, and the criminal justice system should be adjusted accordingly.

Is this the myth that most people are imprisoned for non-violent crime?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The point was we have too many people in jail, in the justice system, hogging resources required to ensure we do have the ones we need to be in prison.

That's a cost. But what is the cost of crime?

The answer to that question is extraordinarily complicated, and definitely worth discussing. There are many levels to the question of cost, from financial, emotional, psychological, etc... and it applies not merely a victim, it can extend well beyond them and pool into a family or even community. However, discussing this would require a fairly broad discussion on anthropology, criminology, law, and judicial application of law. It doesn't simplify to an easy conclusion of "By keeping criminals locked up society saves alot" because keeping "criminals" incarcerated also comes at a price that is economical, social, and psychological, both in their incarceration as well as any potential release back into society.

Comparing these benefits and costs is very hard.

By keeping criminals locked up society saves alot.

That claim is unsubstantiated, unqualified, and very loaded. Criminals? What's a criminal. I believe the conservative definition of a criminal is a "person that has committed a violation of a law that I (or people I associate with by both in person or in a communal sense) probably will never be guilty of breaking."

 

[lpetrich]

Almost as if the victims deserved the crimes that they suffer.

How does it help a victim if we let the criminal who hurt/killed them go free?

Some people claim that all one's miseries are one's fault, and that includes being a crime victim. Expanding on this premise, such "victims" must be taught a lesson in the consequences of their negligence and bad decisions by letting their assailants go free. On the bright side of such a policy, that means that killing in self-defense would go completely unchallenged by the authorities.

I think that we ought to care for crime victims directly, even if that means subsidizing their care.

We kinda of do already. When someone is murdered their children will likely become wards of the state.

That's VERY limited.

People commit a lot more small crimes than big crimes, and the criminal justice system should be adjusted accordingly.

Is this the myth that most people are imprisoned for non-violent crime?

Myth? Says who?

 

[laughing dog]

The US has a relatively high incarceration rate for a developed country.

Different demographics.

So? Can show that our higher incarceration rate is due to the different demographics?

are you willing to have your taxes substantially increased to pay for the construction of new prisons and the compensation for more prison workers?

Absolutely. Most people would.

Talk is cheap. Clearly most people would not, since we are not building more prisons. Hmmmm.



That is a handwaved explanation.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

That is a handwaved explanation.

But it was posted to Tik Tok, which is peer reviewed!

 

[Oleg]

That claim is unsubstantiated, unqualified, and very loaded. Criminals? What's a criminal. I believe the conservative definition of a criminal is a "person that has committed a violation of a law that I (or people I associate with by both in person or in a communal sense) probably will never be guilty of breaking."

Keeping the antisocial element away from the public beneifits the public. This isn't hard. See El Salvador.

 

[Oleg]

Myth? Says who?

Incarcerated Population by Type of Crime Committed - Felon Voting - ProCon.org

Below find the number of people incarcerated for each type of crime as well as the percent of people imprisoned for each type of crime under both state and federal jurisdictions from 2014/2015 through 2018/2019, which are the most recently available numbers from the Bureau of Justice Statistics...

felonvoting.procon.org

 

[Oleg]

So? Can show that our higher incarceration rate is due to the different demographics?

Different demographics is reason for higher crime. Of course there'll be higher incarceration because of it. That black males offend at much high rates than the general popluation is true in every developed country.

Number of black homicide victims at highest in nearly two decades

Figures for England and Wales also show the average homicide rate is around five times higher for black victims than white people.

www.chardandilminsternews.co.uk

The overall homicide rate for black victims in the three years to March 2020 was 49.5 per million population – up by just over two-thirds from 29.5 in the three years to March 2014.

The rate for white victims in the three years to March 2020 was 9.4 per million population, up slightly from 8.1 in the three years to March 2014.

That is a handwaved explanation.

And you can't refute any of it.

 

[Oleg]

There are consequences to bad policies.

S.F. merchants in neighborhoods hardest hit by burglaries say the city is failing them

Across San Francisco, many small-business owners are in a tough predicament: They saw...

www.sfchronicle.com

 

[laughing dog]

The overall homicide rate for black victims in the three years to March 2020 was 49.5 per million population – up by just over two-thirds from 29.5 in the three years to March 2014.

The rate for white victims in the three years to March 2020 was 9.4 per million population, up slightly from 8.1 in the three years to March 2014.

Still waiting for our higher incarceration rate in the USA is due to the different demographics

That is a handwaved explanation.

And you can't refute any of it.

That is claimed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.[/QUOTE]

 

[Oleg]

"That is claimed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

The dude cited the graphs. It's stats that have been out there for awhile. But the blank slatists prefer their ignorance.

Do you deny that black males commit homicide out of proportion to their precentage of the population? Are you aware that crime stats exist?

 

[laughing dog]

"That is claimed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

The dude cited the graphs. It's stats that have been out there for awhile. But the blank slatists prefer their ignorance.

Do you deny that black males commit homicide out of proportion to their precentage of the population? Are you aware the crime stats exist?

You produced no evidence that our higher incarceration rate is due to the different demographics.

While the United States represents about 4.2 percent of the world's population,[3] it houses around 20 percent of the world's prisoners.[

(Wikipedia)

 

[Oleg]

You produced no evidence that our higher incarceration rate is due to the different demographics.

It's there's more violent crime committed in the US, you'll get more people in prision for violent crime. Hello?

While the United States represents about 4.2 percent of the world's population,[3] it houses around 20 percent of the world's prisoners.[

NYC. 2021. Demographics matter. A lot.

 

[Oleg]

Chicago doesn't report offender stats but as most homicide is intra-racial the same pattern appears. 2021.