Breakdown In Civil Order

[Loren Pechtel]

No, since there is no evidence that Neely's death was intended, much less planned. I think that had Neely been white Penny would probably not have been charged with anything, and with negligent homicide at most. And his funeral would certainly not have become a big televised event with the likes of AOC attending.

While I agree on the publicity standpoint I disagree on the charges--New York has a habit of charging in clearly legitimate self defense cases.

 

[Derec]

While I agree on the publicity standpoint I disagree on the charges--New York has a habit of charging in clearly legitimate self defense cases.

While that general trend certainly plays a role, I think race did too. I think it also played a role in the decision not to seek prison time when Saint Jordan Neely broke that 67 year old's nose and orbital socket.

 

[Derec]

It's already been established that the rental was on his account, not hers.

Wrong. That has not been established. She provided receipts that she rented the bike at the time. He rented the bike previously and was trying to hoard it until he rented it again. See, his family is on the dole and they get a subsidy on Citi Bikes, but only for the first 45 minutes. So he and his buddies have the habit of riding for <45 min, then returning them and renting them again. But once returned, he is no longer renting it and somebody else can. He can't hoard a bike he is not renting just because he wants to rent it later.

 

[Derec]

Another crazy incident in NYC:

The then Hunter College adjunct professor Shellyne Rodriguez threw some materials by a student pro-life group to the ground. When a NY Post reporter came to her house to ask her about the incident, she threatened and chased him with a machete. Even though she was charged with "menacing and harassment" (why not "assault with a deadly weapon"?), a Bronx judge released with without bail.

Shellyne Rodriguez released by Bronx judge over Post machete threat

“Get the f–k away from my door, or I’m gonna chop you up with this machete,” the professor screamed before barging out with the blade and holding it menacingly against the reporter’s throat.
The two Post staffers immediately left, but Rodriguez followed them outside, still armed with the machete. Dashcam video then shows her chasing them down the street.
“If I see you on this block one more f–king time, you’re gonna …,” Rodriguez yelled at the journalists. “Get the f–k off the block! Get the f–k out of here, yo!”

Rodriguez describes herself as a "black Marxist" and has been very active in racial and left-wing protests/vandalism in the past. Would the Bronx judge been this lenient had it been a white conservative? Very doubtful.

By the way, this is the videos of the deranged harpy. First the pro-life table meltdown where she calls speech she disagrees with "violence":

And then when she engages in actual violence:


She is now portraying herself as the "victim":
After Firing by Hunter College, Artist Shellyne Rodriguez Says School Has ‘Capitulated’ to ‘Racists, White Nationalists, and Misogynists’

 

[TSwizzle]

Gascon's soft on crime attitude has deadly consequences;

A Los Angeles man who received no jail time and mental health diversion for a 2021 stabbing that nearly killed a construction worker is now charged with the murder of his neighbor. Stefen Sutherland, 31, was charged with assault with a deadly weapon in November 2020 after slashing a construction worker's neck because he was making noise, according to law enforcement sources. A Los Angeles probation official warned that there was a risk of further violence and asked a judge to put him in prison. But District Attorney George Gascon's office sought mental health diversion instead for the crime, which critics say was under-charged to begin with as an assault rather than attempted murder. On May 23, Sutherland allegedly shot Jennifer Gomez 19 times in her home. The two had previously clashed over noise complaints, according to sources close to the investigation.

Fox

Gascon sides with violent criminals and too bad for the victims.

 

[Gospel]

Hmm. Interesting. From the footage that is available I can't seem to spot any trash. But it is a very short video and doesn't really show the entire car. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

As you realized, the video does not capture the whole event.

Neither does witness statements.

People neither have biases nor lie!

You've been on IIDB long enough to know the veracity of the above claim. Yet for witnesses that does seem to be the case to you. Unless of course they're talking about a white officer.

 

[ZiprHead]

The guy was obviously mentally ill and wanted food and water. Instead of getting him help, an asshole comes up from being him and chokes him to death. And the fake christians all over the country are supporting the murderer.

Derec. Who is more dangerous? The guy that punches an old woman or the guy that unnecessarily kills a mentally ill person?

 

[TomC]

Who is more dangerous? The guy that punches an old woman or the guy that unnecessarily kills a mentally ill person?

The violent psycho on the subway attacking people is definitely more dangerous than the guy who tries to stop the attack, but doesn't really know what he's doing.
Tom

 

[ZiprHead]

The violent psycho never killed anyone. The other violent psycho did.

 

[TomC]

The violent psycho never killed anyone. The other violent psycho did.

You don't see the difference between initiating violence and prevention?
Tom

 

[ZiprHead]

The violent psycho never killed anyone. The other violent psycho did.

You don't see the difference between initiating violence and prevention?
Tom

I see someone who was unnecessarily killed. Even the direct witnesses tried to warn the killer. He ignored them.

 

[Derec]

Gascon's soft on crime attitude has deadly consequences;

Gascon sides with violent criminals and too bad for the victims.

He truly is a disaster for the citizens of LA County. Too bad the recall effort failed.

I wonder if the usual suspects on here will try to find some way to defend Gascon here or will they just ignore it.

 

[Derec]

Neither does witness statements.
People neither have biases nor lie!

You've been on IIDB long enough to know the veracity of the above claim. Yet for witnesses that does seem to be the case to you. Unless of course they're talking about a white officer.

Nah. I agree witness statements are imperfect. The thing is, if you have contradictory evidence, it is difficult to establish guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, as Bragg and his minions will have to do. Their only chance is to get as much exculpatory evidence excluded as they can.

 

[Derec]

The guy was obviously mentally ill and wanted food and water.

According to some witnesses, he was also threatening people and throwing trash at them.

Instead of getting him help, an asshole comes up from being him and chokes him to death. And the fake christians all over the country are supporting the murderer.

Not even Bragg is claiming it was "murder". And I do not see what the case has to do with religion.

Derec. Who is more dangerous? The guy that punches an old woman or the guy that unnecessarily kills a mentally ill person?

Neely was the primary aggressor in both cases. He attacked the old woman for no reason. He, according to witnesses, threatened people and threw stuff at them. Had he not acted that way Penny would not have had any reason to restrain him and accidentally cause his death.

The failure is with the system that releases a person like that into society despite well-established history of violent crime. Neely should have been either in prison or else in a closed psychiatric facility. He should not have been roaming the city freely, as he was clearly a danger to others, mental illness or not.
It's not dissimilar to that case TSwizzle posted about Stefen Sutherland who slashed a man's neck, but the LA DA did not seek jail time nor confinement in a psychiatric facility, resulting in Sutherland murdering his neighbor.

 

[Derec]

I see someone who was unnecessarily killed. Even the direct witnesses tried to warn the killer. He ignored them.

He would not have been killed had he been locked up.
Blame Alvin Bragg and the idiots up in Albany. Not Penny for trying to restrain somebody violent and accidentally causing his death.

 

[Gospel]

The guy was obviously mentally ill and wanted food and water. Instead of getting him help, an asshole comes up from being him and chokes him to death. And the fake christians all over the country are supporting the murderer.

Derec. Who is more dangerous? The guy that punches an old woman or the guy that unnecessarily kills a mentally ill person?

The sequence of events leading up to the choke hold used on the victim may indeed have been influenced by misconduct on Neely's part. It remains equally plausible that the choke hold was warranted, excessive or entirely unwarranted. This is based on the info that is out there. Only our biases will take it any further than that.

 

[TomC]

The violent psycho never killed anyone. The other violent psycho did.

You don't see the difference between initiating violence and prevention?
Tom

I see someone who was unnecessarily killed. Even the direct witnesses tried to warn the killer. He ignored them.

I see someone who got themselves killed.

Neely had been let down by a ton of people leading up to this incident. Not the least of which is his family who is currently grifting on the internet because they "loved him so much". Why wasn't he asking them for help, instead of randos on the subway? Probably because he was a violent psycho and they didn't want him around. Then there are the local authorities, from the judicial system to mental health care system. Then there's the local social services agencies. Why wasn't he asking them for help? Probably because he was a dangerous psycho.

I dunno. But referring to Penny as a violent psycho is pretty stupid in my opinion.
Tom

 

[Gospel]

The guy was obviously mentally ill and wanted food and water.

According to some witnesses, he was also threatening people and throwing trash at them.

Instead of getting him help, an asshole comes up from being him and chokes him to death. And the fake christians all over the country are supporting the murderer.

Not even Bragg is claiming it was "murder". And I do not see what the case has to do with religion.

Derec. Who is more dangerous? The guy that punches an old woman or the guy that unnecessarily kills a mentally ill person?

Neely was the primary aggressor in both cases. He attacked the old woman for no reason. He, according to witnesses, threatened people and threw stuff at them. Had he not acted that way Penny would not have had any reason to restrain him and accidentally cause his death.

The failure is with the system that releases a person like that into society despite well-established history of violent crime. Neely should have been either in prison or else in a closed psychiatric facility. He should not have been roaming the city freely, as he was clearly a danger to others, mental illness or not.
It's not dissimilar to that case TSwizzle posted about Stefen Sutherland who slashed a man's neck, but the LA DA did not seek jail time nor confinement in a psychiatric facility, resulting in Sutherland murdering his neighbor.

You make some valid points but I'm hesitant to hastily adopt a stance based on the current evidence. This is only because I'm not quick to believe a 24-year-old Marine Corps veteran accidently chocked someone to death. I'm also not quick to believe a 24-year-old Marine Corps veteran needed the help of two civilians to contain a former Michael Jackson impersonator.

But that's just me.

 

[TomC]

This is only because I'm not quick to believe a 24-year-old Marine Corps veteran accidently chocked someone to death.

You forgot to mention "white".

Honestly, if Penny isn't a violent person I could totally understand why he restrained Neely so badly that Neely died. He didn't know what he was doing, or how best to accomplish stopping Neely's attack on the rest of the subway passengers.

If Neely had a family who cared, this wouldn't have happened. If the judicial system had kept Neely off the streets, this wouldn't have happened. If mental health professionals had intervened, this wouldn't have happened. If Neely could get along with social service agencies who would feed and house him, this wouldn't have happened.

Blaming Penny because he didn't know how to deal effectively with a violent psycho on the subway is ridiculous. It's completely nonsense. Penny had 2 minutes to figure out how to deal with a problem that was decades in the making.
Tom

 

[ZiprHead]

And I do not see what the case has to do with religion.

What does the christian religion say to do for people who are hungry, thirsty, and sick?