Breakdown In Civil Order

[Derec]

Not any more than Mr. Perry being an ex-marine.

Nonsense.

Projection is not analysis. You are not fooling anyone with that crapola.

Not projecting either. Neither am I trying to fool anyone. Unlike you with your apologetics for serial assaulters like Neely.

 

[Derec]

Jordan Neely's uncle released without bail even though he was already on probation for another crime.
Jordan Neely’s uncle released without bail in NYC credit card theft arrest

An uncle of subway chokehold victim Jordan Neely’s who was arrested for stealing credit cards was released Wednesday after his attorney said he’d been a “rock” for his grieving family.[...]He also had a warrant out for his arrest for violating his probation when he was busted near the Port Authority Bus Terminal, Assistant District Attorney Evan Rufrano said at Neely’s Manhattan Criminal Court arraignment.
Prosecutors said Neely was arrested 20 times since June 2022, while on probation, on charges of either grand larceny or criminal possession of stolen property for allegedly stealing people’s bags and wallets, then using their credit cards.[...]
According to one of the criminal complaints against him, Neely in late January allegedly used a woman’s stolen American Express and Capitol One cards to buy wine at Morton Williams Wine & Spirits on Park Avenue. Investigators obtained surveillance footage from the store, and say Neely was the one at the counter.[...]He’d already had a warrant out for allegedly violating his sentence of five years of probation after a 2019 grand larceny bust put him in prison for six months. Neely failed to report four times and changed his address without telling his probation officer, prosecutors said.

Why isn't he being sent back to prison for the probation violation? What even is purpose of probation any more? This BS is typical of what is happening these days in NYC and elsewhere. Career criminals keep committing crimes over and over again and are not held accountable. It's de facto legalization of crimes such as theft.

 

[Gospel]

Not any more than Mr. Perry being an ex-marine.

Nonsense.

Projection is not analysis. You are not fooling anyone with that crapola.

Not projecting either. Neither am I trying to fool anyone. Unlike you with your apologetics for serial assaulters like Neely.

Vázquez said that "Neely did not physically attack anyone". So Penny choking Neely to death wasn't justified by something Neely did at that moment. Are you saying that because Neely had previous assault charges that that is why Penny chocked him to death? If so, then that's premeditated murder homie. Much worse than the current charges.

You can drone on about criminal records and the failures of the system without condoning murder bruh.

 

[Derec]

Citi Bike Gate:
NYC hospital ‘Karen’ paid for Citi Bike at center of viral fight with black man: lawyer

The lawyer for a Manhattan hospital worker accused of taking a Citi Bike from a young black man — who claimed that he paid for the two-wheeler — provided receipts that he says show she was the one who purchased the ride at the center of the viral incident.
The Bellevue Hospital employee — who was branded a “Karen” on social media afterward — rented the bike first, lawyer Justin Marino said in a statement to The Post Wednesday.
The hospital employee, who Marino says is a six-months-pregnant physician assistant, was placed on leave by NYC Health + Hospitals this week after her heated encounter with the men emerged online Saturday and has been viewed tens of millions of times. [...]
He said after the health care worker wrapped up her 12-hour shift, she got on an available bike, “which no individuals were on or touching,” and paid for it through the Citi Bike app on her phone.
As she backed it up from the docking station, a group of five people approached her and claimed the bike was theirs, he said.
“One or more individuals in that group physically pushed her bike (with her on it) back into the docking station, causing it to re-lock,” Marino said in the written statement. One of the individuals then covered the bike’s QR code, stopping her from paying for it again so she could leave, Marino said.“In blocking the QR code, this individual’s arm was touching my client’s pregnant stomach, a condition of which she had made them aware,” he added. “Throughout this time and for the remainder of the video, roughly five individuals were telling her to get off the bike and heckling her.”

A white pregnant woman rents a bike in NYC. A group of black teens surround her and demand the bike. She has to rent another bike to get home.
Of course, the woke Internet blames her and calls her "Karen" while giving a pass to the teens simply because they are black. Even her employer punished her just for not wanting to give up what was rightfully hers.

The accosters are enjoying a lot of support online. They even have a GoFundMe that raised tens of thousands of dollars.

Another article about this and other incidents:
Viral, Out-Of-Context Clips Make Victims Like Pregnant Citi Bike Woman Into Villains Because They’re White

 

[Derec]

Vázquez said that "Neely did not physically attack anyone". So Penny choking Neely to death wasn't justified by something Neely did at that moment.

How do you know this Vazquez is telling the truth? There are other accounts where he was throwing trash at straphangers and threatening them verbally. The former is a physical attack, and combined with the latter it is certainly significant enough to warrant a physical restraint.

Are you saying that because Neely had previous assault charges that that is why Penny chocked him to death?

No, but it makes the accounts of witnesses who say that he was throwing objects at people and threatening them much more likely to be true, since he was a violent person.
Witness to Jordan Neely chokehold death calls Daniel Penny a ‘hero’ and offers to testify on his behalf

If so, then that's premeditated murder homie. Much worse than the current charges.

No, since there is no evidence that Neely's death was intended, much less planned. I think that had Neely been white Penny would probably not have been charged with anything, and with negligent homicide at most. And his funeral would certainly not have become a big televised event with the likes of AOC attending.

You can drone on about criminal records and the failures of the system without condoning murder bruh.

It certainly wasn't murder. Not even your boy Bragg thinks so.
If the system had worked Jordan Neely would not be on the subway, but in prison, and alive. And so would be his career criminal uncle who is now running his big mouth.

 

[Gospel]

No, but it makes the accounts of witnesses who say that he was throwing objects at people and threatening them much more likely to be true, since he was a violent person.
Witness to Jordan Neely chokehold death calls Daniel Penny a ‘hero’ and offers to testify on his behalf

Are you going to share a link were a witness states Neely was throwing objects at people? Because that wasn't one.

 

[Derec]

Are you going to share a link were a witness states Neely was throwing objects at people? Because that wasn't one.

From that link:

Penny seized Neely around the neck following the former street performer’s angry outburst, which also featured him throwing trash at other riders, witnesses said.

Emphasis mine.

 

[Emily Lake]

I doubt there's a single human being in history who has never once engaged in unlawful violence.

I think you're incredibly wrong. I think the vast majority of humans never engage in unlawful violence. That it's so commonplace for you seems a bit troubling.

 

[Gospel]

Are you going to share a link were a witness states Neely was throwing objects at people? Because that wasn't one.

From that link:

Penny seized Neely around the neck following the former street performer’s angry outburst, which also featured him throwing trash at other riders, witnesses said.

Emphasis mine.

Hmm. Interesting. From the footage that is available I can't seem to spot any trash. But it is a very short video and doesn't really show the entire car. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[laughing dog]

Not any more than Mr. Perry being an ex-marine.

Nonsense.

Marines are trained to use violence to solve problems. So why did you respond with "nonsense"?

Not projecting either. Neither am I trying to fool anyone. Unlike you with your apologetics for serial assaulters like Neely.

Of course you are projecting. I am heartened that you admit you are smearing of black victims like Neely.

I offered no apologetics for Mr. Neely, unless you ridiculously equate the idea that Mr. Neely did nothing to merit being killed as "apologetics".

 

[bilby]

I doubt there's a single human being in history who has never once engaged in unlawful violence.

I think you're incredibly wrong. I think the vast majority of humans never engage in unlawful violence. That it's so commonplace for you seems a bit troubling.

I think you underestimate how overarching and pettifogging the letter of the law is.

Most unlawful actions are never reported to, or noticed by, the legal system, and most of those that are are dismissed summarily at the discretion of individual police officers or prosecutors as unworthy of pursuit.

Of course, this amplifies enormously any biases on the part of police, who may not be scrupulously even-handed in deciding when to take matters further than an informal caution (or even just a looming uniformed presence, which can be sufficient to prevent escalation without any action whatsoever).

The offences that get reported are a minuscule fraction of those committed; A small fraction of reported are investigated; A small fraction of investigations lead to arrests; A fraction of arrests lead to trials; And a fraction of trials lead to convictions.

Most people have done something violent at some point in their lives that could have led to jail time if it had been reliably recorded and then prosecuted to the maximum extent possible. But these events are (quite rightly) ignored as the trivia they are, and even when the victims are keen to seek legal action (which they mostly are not), are usually insufficiently well evidenced to lead to a court case, much less a conviction.

Most such violence is perpetrated by children anyway, which is why "...the offender was prosecuted as an adult" always makes me cringe in the reporting of US trials. No civilised country can decide that a child is suddenly an adult, when they feel that they otherwise lack sufficient grounds for revenge against that child.

 

[TomC]

Most people have done something violent at some point in their lives that could have led to jail time if it had been reliably recorded and then prosecuted to the maximum extent possible.

Looks like you're projecting to me.

I'm a big dude. I probably could have used violence as a tool throughout my lifetime. But I never have. I don't even care to be around people I think might.

I don't think I'm in the minority here.
Tom

 

[bilby]

Most people have done something violent at some point in their lives that could have led to jail time if it had been reliably recorded and then prosecuted to the maximum extent possible.

Looks like you're projecting to me.

I'm a big dude. I probably could have used violence as a tool throughout my lifetime. But I never have. I don't even care to be around people I think might.

I don't think I'm in the minority here.
Tom

I think you are oblivious to how trivial a contact with another person needs to be in order to meet the legal definition of violence.

 

[Derec]

Hmm. Interesting. From the footage that is available I can't seem to spot any trash. But it is a very short video and doesn't really show the entire car. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

As you realized, the video does not capture the whole event.

 

[Derec]

Marines are trained to use violence to solve problems. So why did you respond with "nonsense"?

Because it is. It is not Penny who has a habit of assaulting random strangers. Neely did.

Of course you are projecting.

Bullshit. Do you even know what that word means or do you just like to throw it around?

I am heartened that you admit you are smearing of black victims like Neely.

We have been over this many times since 2014 (the start of the sad era of #BLM rioting). Bringing up true information about a decedent's criminal and violent behavior is not "smearing" him. In this context, "to smear" means "to damage someone's reputation by slandering, misrepresenting, or otherwise making false accusations about them, their statements, or their actions." I did none of these things about Neely. I simply pointed out the violent crimes he committed (and largely got away with due to pro-crime attitudes prevalent within the New York prosecutoriat and judiciary).

I offered no apologetics for Mr. Neely, unless you ridiculously equate the idea that Mr. Neely did nothing to merit being killed as "apologetics".

You are downplaying his violent past, claiming it is "smearing him" just to mention it. You also implied that Penny is a violent person simply because he was in the Marine Corps.

 

[Derec]

Most unlawful actions are never reported to, or noticed by, the legal system, and most of those that are are dismissed summarily at the discretion of individual police officers or prosecutors as unworthy of pursuit.

Exactly. The assaults Neely committed were not trivial. He broke an older woman's bones. And did not get prison time for it even though he is a repeat offender.

Of course, this amplifies enormously any biases on the part of police, who may not be scrupulously even-handed in deciding when to take matters further than an informal caution (or even just a looming uniformed presence, which can be sufficient to prevent escalation without any action whatsoever).

There is no indication there was any bias at play when police arrested Neely for breaking that woman's nose and orbital socket. There was bias, however. Bias in Neely's favor when he got a sweetheart deal from Bragg and his minions.

Most such violence is perpetrated by children anyway, which is why "...the offender was prosecuted as an adult" always makes me cringe in the reporting of US trials.

That happens with a) serious crimes and b) usually with those close to the age of majority anyway.

No civilised country can decide that a child is suddenly an adult, when they feel that they otherwise lack sufficient grounds for revenge against that child.

It's not about revenge, but recognizing that human development is a continuum, and not a binary switch. To pretend that a 17 year old murderer is a "child" who did not know better is not very civilized in my opinion. And such policies are being taken advantage by gangs who use minors for their hits because they face slaps on wrists even for premeditated murder in many jurisdictions.

In any case, Jordan Neely was pushing 30 when he assaulted people.

 

[Derec]

I think you are oblivious to how trivial a contact with another person needs to be in order to meet the legal definition of violence.

The violence Neely engaged in was far from trivial.

 

[bilby]

To pretend that a 17 year old murderer is a "child" who did not know better is not very civilized in my opinion.

Yeah, I know.

You're wrong, but that's likely because you don't have a sound understanding of what civilisation actually is. It probably helps to live in one, which certainly gives me an unfair advantage in this discussion.

 

[laughing dog]

Marines are trained to use violence to solve problems. So why did you respond with "nonsense"?

Because it is. It is not Penny who has a habit of assaulting random strangers. Neely did.

You have no idea what Penny did during his service as a marine.

Of course you are projecting.

Bullshit. Do you even know what that word means or do you just like to throw it around?

Apparently I have a better notion than you do.

I am heartened that you admit you are smearing of black victims like Neely.

We have been over this many times since 2014 (the start of the sad era of #BLM rioting). Bringing up true information about a decedent's criminal and violent behavior is not "smearing" him. In this context, "to smear" means "to damage someone's reputation by slandering, misrepresenting, or otherwise making false accusations about them, their statements, or their actions." I did none of these things about Neely. I simply pointed out the violent crimes he committed (and largely got away with due to pro-crime attitudes prevalent within the New York prosecutoriat and judiciary).

Thank you for reaffirming that your intent is to smear the victim.

I offered no apologetics for Mr. Neely, unless you ridiculously equate the idea that Mr. Neely did nothing to merit being killed as "apologetics".

You are downplaying his violent past, claiming it is "smearing him" just to mention it. You also implied that Penny is a violent person simply because he was in the Marine Corps.

As usual, you are wrong. I am not downplaying his past - I am pointing out that his past is not relevant to this situation and that it does not justify his killing. Or do you believe for some reason that Mr. Penny knew about Mr. Neely's past and that somehow absolves his killing him via a chokehold for at least 2 minutes?

I implied nothing about Mr. Penny - I am not responsible for your poor reading and reasoning skills. Mr. Penny's past is just as relevant as Mr. Neely's but for some reason, you seem to think it is not.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

A white pregnant woman rents a bike in NYC. A group of black teens surround her and demand the bike. She has to rent another bike to get home.
Of course, the woke Internet blames her and calls her "Karen" while giving a pass to the teens simply because they are black. Even her employer punished her just for not wanting to give up what was rightfully hers.

The accosters are enjoying a lot of support online. They even have a GoFundMe that raised tens of thousands of dollars.

Another article about this and other incidents:
Viral, Out-Of-Context Clips Make Victims Like Pregnant Citi Bike Woman Into Villains Because They’re White

It's already been established that the rental was on his account, not hers.