Breaking News - Ukraine War Over Tomorrow!!!

[bilby]

Worst case scenario, what's stopping Ukraine from developing its own nuclear deterrent?

The Non-Proliferation Treaty, which Ukraine signed in 1994 as part of the process of handing over Soviet nukes to Russia.

Russia broke that treaty when they invaded.

No, they didn't. The NPT says nothing about invasions. Russia broke a number of treaties that formed a part of that process, but not the NPT.

 

[bilby]

The war isn't over yet. But at least the Kremlin and Washington are communicating and speaking with each other now. That alone is a big accomplishment over the last administration. Because speaking is a LOT less deadly than bullets.

That you don't think Ukraine should have a say speaks volumes about your definition of "peace".

Nah - their leader doesn’t matter. It’s up to the leader of world’s biggest military power and the thug who saved his life, to divvy up Ukraine however they see fit.
Then, Poland, Lithuania, Moldova etc.

Well, that's how the world works. The Great Powers decide, and the rest comply.

It's a system that has ensured global peace and prosperity since about 1848.

Well, as long as we disregard a minor glitch in 1914. And further ignore the total collapse of that political philosophy that the events of 1914-18 precipitated.

Putin would like to pretend that nothing has changed in Russia since 1914, other than the identity of the Tsar, which today is one Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin.

 

[TV and credit cards]

.

Worst case scenario, what's stopping Ukraine from developing its own nuclear deterrent?

The Non-Proliferation Treaty, which Ukraine signed in 1994 as part of the process of handing over Soviet nukes to Russia.

Russia broke that treaty when they invaded.

No, they didn't. The NPT says nothing about invasions. Russia broke a number of treaties that formed a part of that process, but not the NPT.

Russia violated the Budapest Memorandum which raised Ukraine to the NPT. If this goes the way I would expect with Trump trying to force Ukraine to concede all land taken by Russia, a meek response from most of Europe, Ukraine having a toothless army, and little else than Putin's signature on another agreement he has no intention of honoring then I would expect Ukraine or any nation for that matter to do whatever is necessary to survive.

 

[ZiprHead]

Trump wants Ukraine's mineral resources. So does Russia.

 

[Swammerdami]

Those worried that Hegseth and Vance might just be puppets speaking for the Trump-Putin-Vance Bullshit Machine may be relieved to note that as Rachel Maddow reports, Hegseth and Vance do not just repeat Trump talking points, but advance their own deeply thought-out strategies.

 

[RVonse]

That's right. President "Art of the deal-" announced he is negotiating with Putin to end the war in Ukraine. He promised that he would end that war in a day.
I'm sure that peace will be a relief to the millions of Ukrainians and President Zelensky when they see the announcement.

Maybe Trump will start lowering food prices this weekend.

The war isn't over yet. But at least the Kremlin and Washington are communicating and speaking with each other now. That alone is a big accomplishment over the last administration. Because speaking is a LOT less deadly than bullets.

What planet are you on? The bombs and bullets are still flying in Ukraine. And Trump failed to bring his boast to fruition - quelle surprise.

Read what I actually said and not what you think I said.

My first sentence was that the war is not over yet. That means the bullets are still flying.

But opening the channels of communication is far smarter and less violent than not opening channels of communication.

The war isn't over yet. But at least the Kremlin and Washington are communicating and speaking with each other now.

When did they stop?

The Kremlin and Washington have been communicating and speaking with each other since well before the Cuban Missile Crisis, after which event a special hotline was established to allow even more direct and immediate communication between the leaders of Russia and the USA.

As far as I am aware, that remains in place. (Though I presume Putin is screening his calls, to avoid wasting time talking to an unsupervised Trump. )

Biden would not open any dialog with Putin. Putin was always willing but he wasnt.

 

[bilby]

Biden would not open any dialog with Putin. Putin was always willing but he wasnt.

[citation needed]

 

[RVonse]

The war isn't over yet. But at least the Kremlin and Washington are communicating and speaking with each other now. That alone is a big accomplishment over the last administration. Because speaking is a LOT less deadly than bullets.

That you don't think Ukraine should have a say speaks volumes about your definition of "peace".

Nah - their leader doesn’t matter. It’s up to the leader of world’s biggest military power and the thug who saved his life, to divvy up Ukraine however they see fit.
Then, Poland, Lithuania, Moldova etc.

Well, that's how the world works. The Great Powers decide, and the rest comply.

It's a system that has ensured global peace and prosperity since about 1848.

Well, as long as we disregard a minor glitch in 1914. And further ignore the total collapse of that political philosophy that the events of 1914-18 precipitated.

Putin would like to pretend that nothing has changed in Russia since 1914, other than the identity of the Tsar, which today is one Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin.

The world is changing and the POTUS should adapt with these times. Thanks to poor past decisions, the US can no longer be focused on being the sole policeman and provider of the world. We no longer produce enough ourselves to support that kind of generosity and China will have to take up the slack in the eastern hemisphere.

So our focus should be and will be on the western hemisphere from north pole to the bottom of south America. Trump isn't just trolling about Greenland and Canada. He is going to focus on putting up an iron dome over the western hemisphere and the US will be working much closer with Canada to get that done. To wit, I don't believe Canada will actually become our 51st state.....but this is Trumps way of letting Canada know he wants their cooperation.

 

[ZiprHead]

Ukraine rejects initial Trump request for half its rare mineral wealth

MUNICH — Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky rejected a Trump administration request this week that Kyiv hand over 50 percent of its rare-earth mineral resources — an extraordinary demand that could significantly overshadow the value of aid that has been sent to Ukraine. Ukrainian officials are working on a counterproposal that would still offer Washington more access to the country’s natural resources but would bolster U.S. security guarantees for Ukraine, four people familiar with the discussions said.


Zelensky told reporters Saturday that he had not agreed to the Trump administration’s proposal “because it’s not ready yet.”
He said that security guarantees were not part of the U.S. proposal, and that Ukraine needed that in any agreement with the United States.

"We can consider how to distribute profits when security guarantees are clear. So far, I have not seen that in the document,” he told reporters at an annual gathering of U.S. and European security elite.

The request came when Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent visited Kyiv on Wednesday, becoming the first Trump Cabinet official to meet the Ukrainian leader, according to two senior Ukrainian officials, two European diplomats and a fifth person familiar with the situation. They and others spoke on the condition of anonymity to talk frankly about the sensitive issue.

The offer and Ukraine’s consideration of it rippled through European diplomatic circles not only for its audacity but also because the war-ravaged country appeared to be seriously considering how to reach a deal in the hope of a commitment from the United States to help defend against Russia’s aggression.

 

[TomC]

Ukraine rejects initial Trump request for half its rare mineral wealth

MUNICH — Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky rejected a Trump administration request this week that Kyiv hand over 50 percent of its rare-earth mineral resources — an extraordinary demand that could significantly overshadow the value of aid that has been sent to Ukraine. Ukrainian officials are working on a counterproposal that would still offer Washington more access to the country’s natural resources but would bolster U.S. security guarantees for Ukraine, four people familiar with the discussions said.


Zelensky told reporters Saturday that he had not agreed to the Trump administration’s proposal “because it’s not ready yet.”
He said that security guarantees were not part of the U.S. proposal, and that Ukraine needed that in any agreement with the United States.

"We can consider how to distribute profits when security guarantees are clear. So far, I have not seen that in the document,” he told reporters at an annual gathering of U.S. and European security elite.

The request came when Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent visited Kyiv on Wednesday, becoming the first Trump Cabinet official to meet the Ukrainian leader, according to two senior Ukrainian officials, two European diplomats and a fifth person familiar with the situation. They and others spoke on the condition of anonymity to talk frankly about the sensitive issue.

The offer and Ukraine’s consideration of it rippled through European diplomatic circles not only for its audacity but also because the war-ravaged country appeared to be seriously considering how to reach a deal in the hope of a commitment from the United States to help defend against Russia’s aggression.

Well, if Trump fails to steal the Ukrainian assets, he'll have his victory in Gaza to console himself and his lackeys with, I presume.
Tom

 

[Patooka]

To wit, I don't believe Canada will actually become our 51st state.

I've noticed this about your posts. You don't care if Trump is serious about annexing Canada, you don't care if you are being lied to about dogs and cats being eaten by Haitians in Springfield, you don't care that Trump sunk the toughest anti immigration bill the US has ever seen. For you it really isn't about the reality of the situation and more what your billionaire superiors tell you from moment to moment isn't it?

 

[bilby]

We no longer produce enough ourselves to support that kind of generosity

Where the fuck do you get this nonsensical drivel?



The US produces more now than it ever has in the past.

And that statement has been true for most of the time the US has existed.

You are being lied to by people who are not even any good at it - the slightest of effort reveals their lies for what they are.

Yet you still keep swallowing and regurgitating their utter nonsense.

Why?

 

[Elixir]

the slightest of effort reveals their lies for what they are.

That is about 10x more than your average trumpsucker can muster.

 

[Ford]

We no longer produce enough ourselves to support that kind of generosity

Where the fuck do you get this nonsensical drivel?

The thing that gets me is that - once again - a Republican candidate who ran on "OMG we can't possibly afford all this government spending" is set to not only grant yet another tax cut to the wealthiest Americans, but raise the debt limit and put more trillions on the country's credit card.

In the last month, we've seen the whole "I'm going to lower the price of eggs" thing fade into the background with all of the weasel-wording he used to back out of the "lock her up" thing of 2016 and the whole "I'm going to balance the budget and wipe out the national debt" from his last term as well.

Since January 20th it has been "sorry, kid in impoverished African country...we can't afford that bowl of rice anymore. Also, here's another trillion-dollar hole in our revenue!" We just can't afford to keep sending money to Ukraine, but damned if we don't have a plan to spend hundreds of billions turning Gaza into a beachfront resort!

Every single time a Republican runs on cutting spending/eliminating deficit/"fiscal responsibility," when they get into office they forget about it faster than my old dog would forget her name once she got out the front door. Every. Single. Time.

 

[RVonse]

It does remains to be seen. What helps this time around is that MAGA is not traditional Republican anymore, Trump is at least more street smart with politics, there are a lot less RINO's, he has both sides of the house for 2 years, and he has the smartest person on the planet working for him right now. Will his teams actually be able to do any good though? All we can do is hope for the best.

 

[bilby]

It does remains to be seen. What helps this time around is that MAGA is not traditional Republican anymore,

This is a major problem. "Traditional Republican" may have been bad, but that doesn't imply that MAGA isn't far worse (it is).

Trump is at least more street smart with politics,

No, he isn't. He is a fucking clueless noob who has zero clue how politics or government work. He managed to learn zip from his first term, other than that the system is built to defend itself against wannabe dictators; This time he has carefully installed yes-men in all those posts that blocked him from trashing the Constitution last time around.

Remember the Constitution? It used to protect the USA from wannabe dictators. But sadly it relied on people having honour, a sense of shame, and a commitment to their oaths to uphold it, and Trump has gotten rid of all three of those protections.

there are a lot less RINO's,

That's a bad thing, because what you call "RINO's" were the voice of reason holding back President Trump and First Lady Musk from doing dumb and destructive shit.

he has both sides of the house for 2 years,

Again, removing a barrier that blocked his worst craziness.

and he has the smartest person on the planet working for him right now.

I had no idea; I thought Ursula von der Leyen was busy with her EU presidency. It's very nice of her to take time out to help Trump, though God knows he really does need a smart and experienced politician to help him out. If all she does is persuade him to sack that moron Musk, she will have done the USA and the workd a great service.

Will his teams actually be able to do any good though?

Well if they stopped smashing the place up and causing chaos and disaster for five minutes, maybe we will find out. I am not holding my breath though - waiting for Trump to do any good for anyone other than Trump is a mug's game.

All we can do is hope for the best.

Sadly, you may be right (for a change). I guess even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

 

[laughing dog]

I see Trump’s boast failed.

At least he is hard at work by sending Vance to Europe to scold our allies into working with Nazis and likeminded parties.

 

[Tigers!]

I do find it ironic that the discussions concerning Ukraine will begin in Munich.

Have we learnt nothing from Munich 1938?

We?

Homo sapiens in general

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The thing that gets me (still) is how stupid he was to pull out of the Iran deal. That wasn't looking 5 years ahead, but was looking decades ahead.

You're assuming Iran was actually complying.

 

[laughing dog]

I must say, Trump is working at ending the war - withholding arms and intelligence to Ukraine. But still, the war continues. I guess President "Art of the Deal" isn't as good at this as he bragged,