Brexit has happened

[TomC]

I don't care enough to research, so I'll ask.

How did GB resolve the issue about the border with Ireland?
Tom

 

[TomC]

Luckily, NHS can now afford staff to ask every MRI patient whether or not they might be pregnant.
Brexit freed up £350,000,000 per week.
Tom

 

[Bronzeage]

I don't care enough to research, so I'll ask.

How did GB resolve the issue about the border with Ireland?
Tom

They're pretending they never read the Northern Ireland Protocol before they signed it.

 

[TomC]

I don't care enough to research, so I'll ask.

How did GB resolve the issue about the border with Ireland?
Tom

They're pretending they never read the Northern Ireland Protocol before they signed it.

Who is "they"?
EU Ireland or Brexit Ireland?
Tom

 

[Bronzeage]

Britain needs pure FREE TRADE in order to fix the mess.

Adopt basic principles of economics, supply-and-demand etc., as the foundation for the future economy, rather than the special-interest protectionism and nativism and pseudo-patriotism and demagoguery of the past.

Britain has an opportunity now to set a new course and serve as a role model for other nations.

<snip>

It's always strange to see someone claim they want something and then go about doing everything possible to make it impossible.

I can imagine a bunch of Germans sitting around a table, sometime in the late 1940's and the question on everyone's mind was, "How the fuck did this happen?" German science and engineering was as good as any, but wasn't enough to prevent a soul crushing defeat. The plain truth was, the best tank, fighter plane, etc, ever made is going to lose when it faces 10 of the second best tanks, fighter planes, etc.

That led to the next question, "How could the United States make so many tanks, planes, and etcs?"

Being German, they analyzed the process. Iron ore could be mined in Minnesota and shipped to Michigan and made into tanks. It could also be shipped to California and Virginia to make ships. Oil pumped in Texas and Louisiana was sent along, so the engines could go varroom!
<snip>

Every state had a separate government, which could handle just about anything a government needed to do, except for one thing. None of them could put restrictions on interstate commerce. A dollar bill spent in New Hampshire was just as good as one spent in Florida. If a guy in Oregon thought he could do better in California, he was free to go there, or any other state. No restrictions on trade and commerce based on borders meant the resources and people of any state could go where they could be put to best use. The result was an industrial might that all the German engineering and science simply couldn't match.

Back to the Germans sitting around the table. One guy asks "What if we had something like that? I mean, suppose Europeans stopped trying to kill each once every 30 or 40 years and we just worked and made stuff to sell to each other?"

The other Germans looked at him in amazement. It was a crazy idea, but it just might work.

 

[Bronzeage]

I don't care enough to research, so I'll ask.

How did GB resolve the issue about the border with Ireland?
Tom

They're pretending they never read the Northern Ireland Protocol before they signed it.

Who is "they"?
EU Ireland or Brexit Ireland?
Tom

The current UK government. They negotiated a deal and now want to pretend they didn't understand what it meant in real life.

 

[TomC]

I don't care enough to research, so I'll ask.

How did GB resolve the issue about the border with Ireland?
Tom

They're pretending they never read the Northern Ireland Protocol before they signed it.

Who is "they"?
EU Ireland or Brexit Ireland?
Tom

The current UK government. They negotiated a deal and now want to pretend they didn't understand what it meant in real life.

Oh, that.

I'm a U.S. citizen. My country trounced those people over 200 years ago.
And my ancestors are predominantly Irish papists who were forced out of Ireland by the British in the late 19th century.

I kinda enjoy watching the Brits screw themselves, instead of everyone else. It's a hoot!
Tom

 

[bilby]

Britain needs pure FREE TRADE in order to fix the mess.

Adopt basic principles of economics, supply-and-demand etc., as the foundation for the future economy, rather than the special-interest protectionism and nativism and pseudo-patriotism and demagoguery of the past.

Britain has an opportunity now to set a new course and serve as a role model for other nations.

<snip>

It's always strange to see someone claim they want something and then go about doing everything possible to make it impossible.

I can imagine a bunch of Germans sitting around a table, sometime in the late 1940's and the question on everyone's mind was, "How the fuck did this happen?" German science and engineering was as good as any, but wasn't enough to prevent a soul crushing defeat. The plain truth was, the best tank, fighter plane, etc, ever made is going to lose when it faces 10 of the second best tanks, fighter planes, etc.

That led to the next question, "How could the United States make so many tanks, planes, and etcs?"

Being German, they analyzed the process. Iron ore could be mined in Minnesota and shipped to Michigan and made into tanks. It could also be shipped to California and Virginia to make ships. Oil pumped in Texas and Louisiana was sent along, so the engines could go varroom!
<snip>

Every state had a separate government, which could handle just about anything a government needed to do, except for one thing. None of them could put restrictions on interstate commerce. A dollar bill spent in New Hampshire was just as good as one spent in Florida. If a guy in Oregon thought he could do better in California, he was free to go there, or any other state. No restrictions on trade and commerce based on borders meant the resources and people of any state could go where they could be put to best use. The result was an industrial might that all the German engineering and science simply couldn't match.

Back to the Germans sitting around the table. One guy asks "What if we had something like that? I mean, suppose Europeans stopped trying to kill each once every 30 or 40 years and we just worked and made stuff to sell to each other?"

The other Germans looked at him in amazement. It was a crazy idea, but it just might work.

...and that German was called Winston Churchill.

True story.

 

[Bronzeage]

Britain needs pure FREE TRADE in order to fix the mess.

Adopt basic principles of economics, supply-and-demand etc., as the foundation for the future economy, rather than the special-interest protectionism and nativism and pseudo-patriotism and demagoguery of the past.

Britain has an opportunity now to set a new course and serve as a role model for other nations.

<snip>

It's always strange to see someone claim they want something and then go about doing everything possible to make it impossible.

I can imagine a bunch of Germans sitting around a table, sometime in the late 1940's and the question on everyone's mind was, "How the fuck did this happen?" German science and engineering was as good as any, but wasn't enough to prevent a soul crushing defeat. The plain truth was, the best tank, fighter plane, etc, ever made is going to lose when it faces 10 of the second best tanks, fighter planes, etc.

That led to the next question, "How could the United States make so many tanks, planes, and etcs?"

Being German, they analyzed the process. Iron ore could be mined in Minnesota and shipped to Michigan and made into tanks. It could also be shipped to California and Virginia to make ships. Oil pumped in Texas and Louisiana was sent along, so the engines could go varroom!
<snip>

Every state had a separate government, which could handle just about anything a government needed to do, except for one thing. None of them could put restrictions on interstate commerce. A dollar bill spent in New Hampshire was just as good as one spent in Florida. If a guy in Oregon thought he could do better in California, he was free to go there, or any other state. No restrictions on trade and commerce based on borders meant the resources and people of any state could go where they could be put to best use. The result was an industrial might that all the German engineering and science simply couldn't match.

Back to the Germans sitting around the table. One guy asks "What if we had something like that? I mean, suppose Europeans stopped trying to kill each once every 30 or 40 years and we just worked and made stuff to sell to each other?"

The other Germans looked at him in amazement. It was a crazy idea, but it just might work.

...and that German was called Winston Churchill.

True story.

There are other versions of this story which are equally true.

One of the more depressing things about Brexit is I have yet to meet anyone in favor of Brexit who has any grasp of economics. The idea that Britain could maintain their economy after leaving the European Union and the Common Market is silly to the point of lunacy.

The British public let themselves be convinced they were being oppressed by the EU and all they had to do was throw off the oppressors and all would be fine. There's really no smart way to do something inherently stupid, but Johnson's government has proven itself incapable of anticipating the most inevitable events. I saw an interview with a minister who was asked about pig farmers having to kill their stock because there were no butchers to process the meat and they couldn't afford to feed them. Pigs were being killed and buried in the fields. The minister thought the interviewer was a vegan who was upset about animal death, seeming oblivious to the loss of food and money.

 

[Gospel]

EU is like democracy, a pain in the ass. But we are much better off with it, than the alternative. Putin loves Brexit. It weakens Europe. Boris Johnson and company sold so many lies about the money they'd save, how the UK would have the upper hand in negotiations. None of it was true. They began hedging those statements the second they won the Brexit vote. Britain isn't dying over this, but they will be weaker for it.

The alternative is entirely up to the EU and UK. If they want to maintain the western world's strength against Putin and Co. they can totally do that post Brexit. It's not like the EU doesn't have great relations with Non-Member members (glares at money laundering Switzerland). As far weaker, that's yet to be seen. Everyone is fussing about right now because they are going through drug withdrawal. Financially weaker? Temporarily. Democratically weaker? Not one bit. UK population pissed off? 100%. They'll get it together cause they got shit to trade.

To my knowledge, the US and China are their most important trade partners so the only real obstacle in the UK's way is a bitter and defensive (afraid of a succeeding UK) EU. That's just my simple-minded take.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

EU is like democracy, a pain in the ass. But we are much better off with it, than the alternative. Putin loves Brexit. It weakens Europe. Boris Johnson and company sold so many lies about the money they'd save, how the UK would have the upper hand in negotiations. None of it was true. They began hedging those statements the second they won the Brexit vote. Britain isn't dying over this, but they will be weaker for it.

The alternative is entirely up to the EU and UK. If they want to maintain the western world's strength against Putin and Co. they can totally do that post Brexit. It's not like the EU doesn't have great relations with Non-Member members (glares at money laundering Switzerland). As far weaker, that's yet to be seen. Everyone is fussing about right now because they are going through drug withdrawal. Financially weaker? Temporarily. Democratically weaker? Not one bit. UK population pissed off? 100%. They'll get it together cause they got shit to trade.

To my knowledge, the US and China are their most important trade partners so the only real obstacle in the UK's way is a bitter and defensive (afraid of a succeeding UK) EU. That's just my simple-minded take.

Dude, I'm all for compromise... especially when I always get the better half of the deal.

 

[steve_bank]

I don't care enough to research, so I'll ask.

How did GB resolve the issue about the border with Ireland?
Tom

They're pretending they never read the Northern Ireland Protocol before they signed it.

Who is "they"?
EU Ireland or Brexit Ireland?
Tom

The current UK government. They negotiated a deal and now want to pretend they didn't understand what it meant in real life.

Oh, that.

I'm a U.S. citizen. My country trounced those people over 200 years ago.
And my ancestors are predominantly Irish papists who were forced out of Ireland by the British in the late 19th century.

I kinda enjoy watching the Brits screw themselves, instead of everyone else. It's a hoot!
Tom

Hmmm... I always thought the big Irish migration to the US had something to do with the potato famine.

 

[Gospel]

EU is like democracy, a pain in the ass. But we are much better off with it, than the alternative. Putin loves Brexit. It weakens Europe. Boris Johnson and company sold so many lies about the money they'd save, how the UK would have the upper hand in negotiations. None of it was true. They began hedging those statements the second they won the Brexit vote. Britain isn't dying over this, but they will be weaker for it.

The alternative is entirely up to the EU and UK. If they want to maintain the western world's strength against Putin and Co. they can totally do that post Brexit. It's not like the EU doesn't have great relations with Non-Member members (glares at money laundering Switzerland). As far weaker, that's yet to be seen. Everyone is fussing about right now because they are going through drug withdrawal. Financially weaker? Temporarily. Democratically weaker? Not one bit. UK population pissed off? 100%. They'll get it together cause they got shit to trade.

To my knowledge, the US and China are their most important trade partners so the only real obstacle in the UK's way is a bitter and defensive (afraid of a succeeding UK) EU. That's just my simple-minded take.

Dude, I'm all for compromise... especially when I always get the better half of the deal.

Sorry, I just don't see EU deals as the end all be all being that there are countries that aren't members of the EU and they are doing just fine. One is a money launderer in the dead center of it all and the others are the likes of China and the USA.

 

[steve_bank]

Lumpenproletariat said:


Britain needs pure FREE TRADE in order to fix the mess.

Adopt basic principles of economics, supply-and-demand etc., as the foundation for the future economy, rather than the special-interest protectionism and nativism and pseudo-patriotism and demagoguery of the past.

Britain has an opportunity now to set a new course and serve as a role model for other nations.

Lumpy is reliable if nothing else.

Under the principle of unrestricted free trade and transfer of capital and intellectual property American business went wholesale to China. It is not about supply and demand which always applies to a degree.

Now we are dealing with the consequences. China has us by the balls.

Brexit was more than just trade. It was about nationalism. After centuries of conflict in Europe and shifting alliamces the EU ctreatd a united Europe bringing the mutaual assured devastaion to an end.

 

[bigfield]

Man look, I'm at work right now but really wanna dive into this. First off I think most people against Brexit are using all the obvious upfront costs of Brexit as proof of its failure. NO shit Trade is going to suck. No shit costs will go up as they'll need to make some costly adjustments to their borders in order to trade (stuff that other unnamed nations demand btw). No shit the filthy rich who can't enjoy the usual benefits are going to bitch and moan on Pay to Play media networks. Sure there is going to be all sorts of other stuff running foul as anything connected to the EU clearly should after the breakup. Of Course, the EU is going to do everything it can to make an example out of them which will draw out their glorious rebound longer than it should. No shit there is going to be political turmoil amongst themselves because the UK was split down the middle over Brexit. So yeah, all this bad stuff is a given. What is not a given is the UK just sitting down and indefinitely taking tomatoes to the face. Now that's a real pipe dream.

Once the radiation from all the fallout clears the UK will do just fine. It's not like they don't have a list of talents the world abroad doesn't already benefit from.

I also think it was a good shakeup for the powers that be. Folks act like the EU is this angelic force of God that does all things good on earth (Ptooey)

Seems like it's all frowns for the UK

• Obvious upfront costs
• Trade sucks
• Costs have gone up
• Costly border adjustments
• Other stuff running afoul: anything connected to the EU
• EU making an example of them
• Political turmoil
• Limited duration of time spent taking tomatoes to the face

Well, actually there is a silver lining:

• The British have new things to complain about

On the other hand, the EU appears to have benefitted from the UK's departure:

• They got a good shakeup

 

[TomC]

Hmmm... I always thought the big Irish migration to the US had something to do with the potato famine.

Oh that was definitely a factor. But there were lots of other ones. It didn't take place in a vacuum.
Brits would rather talk about that factor mainly because they can disavow responsibility for that at least.
Tom

 

[Bronzeage]

I don't care enough to research, so I'll ask.

How did GB resolve the issue about the border with Ireland?
Tom

They're pretending they never read the Northern Ireland Protocol before they signed it.

Who is "they"?
EU Ireland or Brexit Ireland?
Tom

The current UK government. They negotiated a deal and now want to pretend they didn't understand what it meant in real life.

Oh, that.

I'm a U.S. citizen. My country trounced those people over 200 years ago.
And my ancestors are predominantly Irish papists who were forced out of Ireland by the British in the late 19th century.

I kinda enjoy watching the Brits screw themselves, instead of everyone else. It's a hoot!
Tom

Hmmm... I always thought the big Irish migration to the US had something to do with the potato famine.

Never confuse history with truth. It's always more complicated than that. The Irish population became dependent on the potato crop because of more than a century of British economic policies and damage was compounded by the government's response to the famine.

 

[Swammerdami]

Back to the Germans sitting around the table. One guy asks "What if we had something like that? I mean, suppose Europeans stopped trying to kill each once every 30 or 40 years and we just worked and made stuff to sell to each other?"

The other Germans looked at him in amazement. It was a crazy idea, but it just might work.

...and that German was called Winston Churchill.

True story.

Give some credit to Harry Truman and his Marshall Plan. (BTW, Truman's gt-gt-grandfather Hans Michael Gutknecht was born in Prussia.)

One of the more depressing things about Brexit is I have yet to meet anyone in favor of Brexit who has any grasp of economics. The idea that Britain could maintain their economy after leaving the European Union and the Common Market is silly to the point of lunacy.

Didn't I learn at this very board that Boris Johnson based his stance on Brexit solely on what would garner him more votes? And that the Government went along with the referendum only because they thought that even the hoi polloi wouldn't be stupid enough to vote Leave?

 

[Swammerdami]

Hmmm... I always thought the big Irish migration to the US had something to do with the potato famine.

Oh that was definitely a factor. But there were lots of other ones. It didn't take place in a vacuum.
Brits would rather talk about that factor mainly because they can disavow responsibility for that at least.
Tom

FWIW, my ancestors from Ireland were Presbyterians who came to the New World a century before your Catholic ancestors. They left the Emerald Isle because they were at risk of violence from your papists!

 

[Gospel]

Man look, I'm at work right now but really wanna dive into this. First off I think most people against Brexit are using all the obvious upfront costs of Brexit as proof of its failure. NO shit Trade is going to suck. No shit costs will go up as they'll need to make some costly adjustments to their borders in order to trade (stuff that other unnamed nations demand btw). No shit the filthy rich who can't enjoy the usual benefits are going to bitch and moan on Pay to Play media networks. Sure there is going to be all sorts of other stuff running foul as anything connected to the EU clearly should after the breakup. Of Course, the EU is going to do everything it can to make an example out of them which will draw out their glorious rebound longer than it should. No shit there is going to be political turmoil amongst themselves because the UK was split down the middle over Brexit. So yeah, all this bad stuff is a given. What is not a given is the UK just sitting down and indefinitely taking tomatoes to the face. Now that's a real pipe dream.

Once the radiation from all the fallout clears the UK will do just fine. It's not like they don't have a list of talents the world abroad doesn't already benefit from.

I also think it was a good shakeup for the powers that be. Folks act like the EU is this angelic force of God that does all things good on earth (Ptooey)

Seems like it's all frowns for the UK

• Obvious upfront costs
• Trade sucks
• Costs have gone up
• Costly border adjustments
• Other stuff running afoul: anything connected to the EU
• EU making an example of them
• Political turmoil
• Limited duration of time spent taking tomatoes to the face

Well, actually there is a silver lining:

• The British have new things to complain about

On the other hand, the EU appears to have benefitted from the UK's departure:

• They got a good shakeup

Whoopty doo. Not the first to leave the EU and face exciting pains. Will also not be the first to leave the EU and get along just fine either. The only place I know of that went to complete crap after exiting is Saint Barthélemy and that's because they're a small french territory that had a dependence on fishing while having to compete with one of the top ten fish exporting countries. so what exactly sets the precedent for leaving the EU being so bad in the long term? The UK is in the position to be just fine with the potential to be even better off.