But seriously. Those housing prices! How do you do it?

[Playball40]

I chat with my friends who live in high price housing markets and I am stumped on how this works.
Do y’all mind sharing your stories?

I can't afford to live in my own neighborhood.

Moved into this house a little over 23 years ago when I was still married. Got divorced a couple years later and I got the house. Refinanced it two years after to get the ex completely off the note, and did another refi 10 years ago under the HARP. Thanks Obama!

Of course the price cratered during the housing crisis. Looked into a HELOC in 2008 or so and the bank was like "actually, the value of your home is less than what you paid for it, and the answer is no." Ouch.

Things have changed a bit since then, to put it mildly. My modest house in a suburb of Phoenix is - on paper - a mountain of money. I have turned off the ringer on my phone because I get calls from 8am to 8pm from investors/flippers/assholes wanting to make a "cash offer" on my house. For guano's and grins, I checked the rental market in the neighborhood, and have decided that if the people living next door and across the street ask how much I'm paying per month, I will change the subject immediately.

Same here in Tampa. I've had my house since 98. Refinanced a couple times for capital replacements, but overall it needs upgrading. I'm so tires of the calls and texts begging me to sell. Grrrr...... I'm not going anywhere but with insurance now over $6,700 a year, it's definitely more tight financially.
I just want to pay it off and retire one day. That's all. All my dreams of selling and relocating to retire somewhere quiet just isn't affordable anymore.

 

[Ford]

I chat with my friends who live in high price housing markets and I am stumped on how this works.
Do y’all mind sharing your stories?

I can't afford to live in my own neighborhood.

Moved into this house a little over 23 years ago when I was still married. Got divorced a couple years later and I got the house. Refinanced it two years after to get the ex completely off the note, and did another refi 10 years ago under the HARP. Thanks Obama!

Of course the price cratered during the housing crisis. Looked into a HELOC in 2008 or so and the bank was like "actually, the value of your home is less than what you paid for it, and the answer is no." Ouch.

Things have changed a bit since then, to put it mildly. My modest house in a suburb of Phoenix is - on paper - a mountain of money. I have turned off the ringer on my phone because I get calls from 8am to 8pm from investors/flippers/assholes wanting to make a "cash offer" on my house. For guano's and grins, I checked the rental market in the neighborhood, and have decided that if the people living next door and across the street ask how much I'm paying per month, I will change the subject immediately.

Same here in Tampa. I've had my house since 98. Refinanced a couple times for capital replacements, but overall it needs upgrading. I'm so tires of the calls and texts begging me to sell. Grrrr...... I'm not going anywhere but with insurance now over $6,700 a year, it's definitely more tight financially.
I just want to pay it off and retire one day. That's all. All my dreams of selling and relocating to retire somewhere quiet just isn't affordable anymore.

I actually did answer one of the calls awhile back. Not that I was interested (I have multiple friends who are real estate agents and I'd use them if I needed to move for some reason), but I wanted to hear them out.

After the initial pitch, I asked the caller "have you looked at the listing? You know the property has been off the market since 1999, right?" I guess the tone of my voice tipped him off to the fact that I wasn't happy, because he sighed and said "no, sir, I don't see the listing" and explained that he was just working a call center job...going down lists of numbers and reading a script in case he stumbled across someone interested in making a quick sale.

My friends who are traditional agents are competing with big companies that are using call centers to relentlessly badger homeowners until they get someone they can "transfer to their customer success department," with employees probably lured into the job with promises of "working in the fast-paced and exciting world of real estate," only to find out they're grinding through "leads" on an auto-dialer.

I actually felt kinda sorry for the guy. But only just kinda...

 

[crazyfingers]

I chat with my friends who live in high price housing markets and I am stumped on how this works.
Do y’all mind sharing your stories?

I can't afford to live in my own neighborhood.

Moved into this house a little over 23 years ago when I was still married. Got divorced a couple years later and I got the house. Refinanced it two years after to get the ex completely off the note, and did another refi 10 years ago under the HARP. Thanks Obama!

Of course the price cratered during the housing crisis. Looked into a HELOC in 2008 or so and the bank was like "actually, the value of your home is less than what you paid for it, and the answer is no." Ouch.

Things have changed a bit since then, to put it mildly. My modest house in a suburb of Phoenix is - on paper - a mountain of money. I have turned off the ringer on my phone because I get calls from 8am to 8pm from investors/flippers/assholes wanting to make a "cash offer" on my house. For guano's and grins, I checked the rental market in the neighborhood, and have decided that if the people living next door and across the street ask how much I'm paying per month, I will change the subject immediately.

Same here in Tampa. I've had my house since 98. Refinanced a couple times for capital replacements, but overall it needs upgrading. I'm so tires of the calls and texts begging me to sell. Grrrr...... I'm not going anywhere but with insurance now over $6,700 a year, it's definitely more tight financially.
I just want to pay it off and retire one day. That's all. All my dreams of selling and relocating to retire somewhere quiet just isn't affordable anymore.

I actually did answer one of the calls awhile back. Not that I was interested (I have multiple friends who are real estate agents and I'd use them if I needed to move for some reason), but I wanted to hear them out.

After the initial pitch, I asked the caller "have you looked at the listing? You know the property has been off the market since 1999, right?" I guess the tone of my voice tipped him off to the fact that I wasn't happy, because he sighed and said "no, sir, I don't see the listing" and explained that he was just working a call center job...going down lists of numbers and reading a script in case he stumbled across someone interested in making a quick sale.

My friends who are traditional agents are competing with big companies that are using call centers to relentlessly badger homeowners until they get someone they can "transfer to their customer success department," with employees probably lured into the job with promises of "working in the fast-paced and exciting world of real estate," only to find out they're grinding through "leads" on an auto-dialer.

I actually felt kinda sorry for the guy. But only just kinda...

Ya I'm getting calls all the time for my parent's house. I don't know how they learned that I am the person in charge of the house and how they got my phone number. It's usually Indian or Chinese accent people calling me. The house is in a different town and it's not yet deeded to me. It's in my mother's trust.

I've stopped being civil to these people. And they don't care what a Do Not Call Registry is.

 

[atrib]

You want to own as much real estate as you can during inflationary periods.

Real estate can be a good investment in the long term (better than investing in an index fund), provided you have the financial means to pay for it comfortably (i.e. are not leveraged to your eyeballs), and you are willing to put in the effort to take care of your property. My primary gripe is with people who buy too much house for their income, or buy a second property as an investment that they cannot really afford, and then live on the edge for the next 30 years while they pay it off. I personally know a bunch of people like this, and the financial and emotional harm they do to themselves because they thought they could "swing the payments" and live month to month, paycheck to paycheck, even while making 6-figure incomes. Same thing goes for those making 5-year lease payments for their $80,000 BMW while they can't afford to put in the minimum contribution to get the full employer match on their 401K at work.

I'm not smart enough or motivated enough to play in the stock market or the real estate market, so I put our savings in index funds. And we make a budget and follow it diligently. amazing what you can accomplish with a little planning and discipline.

 

[crazyfingers]

My primary gripe is with people who buy too much house for their income,

Ya. I remember when my wife to be and I were house shopping. The mortgage company wanted to lend us 3x what we were willing to take on. It was scary enough borrowing only 1/3 what they wanted us to borrow. We started off with a 30 year and refinanced several times to get better rates an finally switched to a 15 year. Then we paid that off faster than we needed to. Being in debt is not anything I want to do again.

I'm not smart enough or motivated enough to play in the stock market or the real estate market, so I put our savings in index funds. And we make a budget and follow it diligently. amazing what you can accomplish with a little planning and discipline.

My wife plays around with some stocks but we mostly have various funds too. If you're diligent about budgeting to add more each month it can add up very nicely after 30 years.

 

[Tigers!]

Most modern political parties agree that excessive inflation is a bad thing, and that it's a central role of a government to keep it under control (though they frequently disagree on how to achieve this).

Most modern political parties like to tell voters that they will prevent excessive inflation, and that they will work hard to ensure that specific commodities and services remain 'affordable'; Politicians love to tell us how hard they work to keep gas, food, and cost of living expenses down.

Yet as soon as the conversation turns to real estate, they flip the entire narrative on its head, and gush about how they will keep the housing market bouyant (ie., subject to as much inflation as they can sustain).

It's a total mystery to me how the same people for whom high gasoline prices are a disastrous vote losing scenario, also have high real estate prices as a wonderful vote winning scenario.

Do the voters like high prices for stuff, or not??

Cognitive dissonance

 

[Tigers!]

In Australia we have started to see house building firms collapse, not just small ones either. All were characterised by being mainly fixed price construction. Even the largest in Australia, Metricon Homes, had to fend off rumours of possible collapse (I worked for Metricon years ago as their IT Co-ordinator).
My daughter and her fiance has signed a fixed price contract with a small (thank goodness) initial deposit with a company. The next payment is not due till Oct. I have warned her that if they suddenly want earlier payement or more money it could be a sign of call flow problems.

 

[Tigers!]

The handover of the land for my daughter happened last week. $320,000AUD later she now owns a plot of land about the same size as mine. I only paid $22,000AUD. Admittedly that was in 1988 but land prices are still insanely stupid in Australia.
She gets married in March next year and the builders says the will be finished just before then but I have grave doubts about their timeline.
Looks like the daughter and her husband will start their married life with us for a short time. Not concerned about that.
We have had a few more builders go bankrupt which is not encouraging for the short term future. I know the holding company name of the builders and am keeping a very careful watch of them in the news.

 

[southernhybrid]

I think that some home prices are either beginning to fall or are stabilizing in my small city. What I've noticed is that if the house has been remodeled and in a certain quaint neighborhood, it seems within days, sometimes above the asking price. Otherwise, it may sit on the market for months. If it's in bad need of remodeling or updating, it may not sell for months on end.

I also follow real estate in Indy, in case we ever decide to move closer to our son. It doesn't seem to be falling there yet. In fact, it appears to still be rising in some areas. But, the real estate prices in Indy were extremely low less than a decade ago, so maybe due to supply and demand, the prices are still rising some. You can still buy a decent home in Indy or in my town for under 300K. In many cases, nice homes sell for about 250, but they may be smaller and lack garages etc. With interest rates on the rise, things may change. Younger people don't alway realize that some of us had interest rates well over 10% back in the early 80s. What seems high now, would have been very low back then.

 

[Playball40]

I tend to assume that the point of societies and economies is the benefit to be had from the arrangement, individually and collectively, that with progress life becomes easier for all its members.....yet considering developments in recent times, that doesn't seem to be the case.

Things can't be perfect for everyone, all the time.

There is usually the generational whining. I tried to explain to Boomers that the stock market has exploded during their life time. College was affordable. Housing wasn't too expensive. Health care not too nutty. So yeah, you better have done well you lucky fucks!

The latest generation has a stock market that just yo-yos like madness, college is through the roof expensive, health care costs continue to increase, and housing gets expensive. I feel like my generation, Late Z'er were the last ones to get out into the old world where you went to college (worked hard... well some did), graduated and got a job, and things work themselves out. I graduated, got a house in '03, and since then the Great Recession and a global pandemic. It isn't WWII, but there were blue collar jobs back then too.

I got very lucky as well as I finished up with school in a booming job market, and managed to become a homeowner just before prices exploded. A few years ago I thought it was a matter of making good decisions, but these days a lot of my peers are hopelessly buried.

My acquaintances mostly fall into two camps: those who are making the best of it and those who play the blame game. It's genuinely awful for some, but blaming doesn't pay the credit card bill.

Those getting hit the hardest are friends who rejected modern values outright and never even attempted to find a career. Living paycheque to paycheque and barely getting by.

The last sentence describes my son.

 

[Playball40]

Real estate is risky.
My advice: get lucky.
You can’t get lucky without facing risk, but real estate DOES appreciate on average, and the longer you can hold onto it the better your chances of ending up in the black.
Right now I am facing the prospect of “losing” on a long term (15 yr) real estate deal. But it’s only a loss in terms of “today dollars” spent on the purchase plus taxes, insurance, upkeep, travel etc. AND a major remodel it will need to be marketable. Most of the purchase price was re-couped in rent over the time I’ve owned it and it would yet be profitable if I held it a few more years… and will be close to break even if I sell it this spring.
Every other property I ever got into was a clear winner in the end.
So I say go for it, esp if you are young and flush enough to hold for 10+ years.

I'm not going to get lucky then, because I can't afford risk. I have a responsibility to keep a roof over our heads, and that means buying a house I can afford to pay off, even when interest rates inevitably rise, regardless of its potential to appreciate in value. I'll stay here as long as I can, not because I care about the investment or because I particularly like this house, but because I can't afford to re-enter the housing market in the foreseeable future. Any equity I gain is purely a side-effect of having a family home.

I'm here. I want to get the HELL out of Florida. I hate it here. BUT, I cannot afford to move where I would like to go - some place left (or at best center left). I would love to join my daughter in WA, but it would mean my husband would need to start a new job at 57. After 24 years with the same company (that is robbing him), I cannot see it happening. I feel trapped.

 

[Elixir]

I would love to join my daughter in WA, but it would mean my husband would need to start a new job at 57. After 24 years with the same company (that is robbing him), I cannot see it happening. I feel trapped.

Be careful what you wish for. I understand the trapped feeling, the urge to be with your daughter. I repeat my suggestion - take a calculated risk. Not where it will keep you up at night, but just a little bit of leveraging. Maybe your daughter can help you get into a property in the NW? It's a long way from FL, and long distance property ownership has proven problematic for me without a trusted representative at the distant location. But since you have a daughter there... ??
BTW, the property mentioned above caused me to have to take almost 60k out of savings, or to borrow that much. But it sold within an hour of putting up a sign and yielded a decent profit. The closing was on July 25. If it was still on the market I'd probably be dropping the price now, just a few weeks later. Housing is not usually this volatile.

 

[Playball40]

I'm going to "gift" an article from the NYTimes that I read this morning. It's a little bit off topic, but I think it's still pertinent to the discussion of unaffordable housing. It's about how investors are buying up mobile home properties, increasing the rents and/or selling the properties again in a short time. It's heartbreaking to think of all the low income people who are being forced out of their modest homes. In a few cases, the renters of the properties have been able to buy the land themselves but that is rare. I hope some of you will read the article and express your opinion. My opinion is that greed is totally out of control and we are either going to have a lot more homeless people in the US, or a lot of large groups of people living in small homes, or apartments, if something isn't done to change this issue.

While it's not discussed in the link, anyone who follows the news closely probably knows that investors are also buying up a high percentage of single family homes as well. They either flip them or. use them as rental property. I know of one woman in my community who has been hurt by this. She was renting a home for a little over 600 per month, but the owner raised her rent to 900 as of next month. She is on SS and is retired. Luckily for her, she has a son in the area who has invited her to move in with him. But, what if she had no friends or relatives to take her in?

nytimes.com/2022/03/27/us/mobile-home-park-ownership-costs.html?unlocked_article_code=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACEIPuomT1JKd6J17Vw1cRCfTTMQmqxCdw_PIxftm3iWka3DODmwdiPkORI2H8UbJaO9jYN4-miySXtwEN6ApSeZpzu5HekdqUBWz5JuYnZBPawMElbWOZEJklZTcQeJ_tjbwcmiy

Insane. It used to be 'mobile homes' depreciated. Even in parks (typical here in Florida), the LOT rent is outrageous. I genuinely do not know how young people do it if they do not have family that can assist.

 

[Playball40]

I think that some home prices are either beginning to fall or are stabilizing in my small city. What I've noticed is that if the house has been remodeled and in a certain quaint neighborhood, it seems within days, sometimes above the asking price. Otherwise, it may sit on the market for months. If it's in bad need of remodeling or updating, it may not sell for months on end.

I also follow real estate in Indy, in case we ever decide to move closer to our son. It doesn't seem to be falling there yet. In fact, it appears to still be rising in some areas. But, the real estate prices in Indy were extremely low less than a decade ago, so maybe due to supply and demand, the prices are still rising some. You can still buy a decent home in Indy or in my town for under 300K. In many cases, nice homes sell for about 250, but they may be smaller and lack garages etc. With interest rates on the rise, things may change. Younger people don't alway realize that some of us had interest rates well over 10% back in the early 80s. What seems high now, would have been very low back then.

Everyone wants 'move in ready' because any kind of construction/replacement is on back order.

 

[Toni]

Home prices have increased in my neighborhood. We could now just about get what we put into the place in terms of renovations/updated plumbing and electrical. Wages have increased so our home is affordable for new buyers with good jobs. Also probably too expensive to attract someone who would want to change this into a college rental--which is not needed, given the smaller population of students in this region. If I could magically lift and transport my house to one of the big cities in my state, I would double or triple the price I could get, even in a so-so neighborhood.

We are almost certainly going to stay in this house until we cannot do stairs anymore. I still and will always have very mixed feelings about that. On one hand, now that the ugly choices of previous owners are almost entirely erased and the plumbing and electrical works well and in fact, the house is beautiful now, I am starting to really love my house. On the other hand, it's bigger than what we strictly need, although we have relaxed into the bedrooms of kids who have grown up and who are living in their own homes. I think in 15- 20 years, it will be more than I care to clean. It's more than I care to clean now.

Any young'uns looking for a new career: Start a business setting up and updating electronics (such as smart tvs and remotes) and streaming services for old people as well as typical handyman sorts of things that require ladders and power tools.

 

[Toni]

I think that some home prices are either beginning to fall or are stabilizing in my small city. What I've noticed is that if the house has been remodeled and in a certain quaint neighborhood, it seems within days, sometimes above the asking price. Otherwise, it may sit on the market for months. If it's in bad need of remodeling or updating, it may not sell for months on end.

I also follow real estate in Indy, in case we ever decide to move closer to our son. It doesn't seem to be falling there yet. In fact, it appears to still be rising in some areas. But, the real estate prices in Indy were extremely low less than a decade ago, so maybe due to supply and demand, the prices are still rising some. You can still buy a decent home in Indy or in my town for under 300K. In many cases, nice homes sell for about 250, but they may be smaller and lack garages etc. With interest rates on the rise, things may change. Younger people don't alway realize that some of us had interest rates well over 10% back in the early 80s. What seems high now, would have been very low back then.

Everyone wants 'move in ready' because any kind of construction/replacement is on back order.

And skilled labor is very hard to come by. Between the shortage of skilled tradesmen available and the shortage of materials and supplies, our bathroom renos (desperately needed since at least a decade before we bought the place) took longer than anticipated because some things were just...delayed.

I am so fortunate that I already have a well established relationship with plumbers. Turns out that if you use them for your kitchen and a couple of baths and pay on time, you get a lot of consideration. My electrician has passed the business to his son but that's cool as the son is the one who did the bulk of the re-wiring of the house. I am distraught that our contractor has retired, although I suspect he would be willing to help a little should the need arise. Truthfully, we only need cosmetic work upstairs: refinishing floors in bedrooms and painting. Oh, and a new garage. Will most likely never get the garage...

One of my kids made the extremely smart decision to buy a home next door to a plumber who has become his good friend. Lucky dog.

 

[southernhybrid]

I understand that most people want "move in ready" because I want that too. It's not so much due to labor shortages etc. I've had a kitchen and bathroom remodel done 10 and 12 years ago. No matter what a contractor tells you, the job usually ends up taking much longer. It's stressful and sometimes exasperating to deal with contractors. The one I had that did the bathroom did a very good job, but it took months. One time he told us that he'd have his workers there while we were on vacation. When we got back, they hadn't done a thing. Almost every time I saw him, he felt the need to tell me about the 140K kitchen remodel he was doing in Buckhead, as if I cared. This might be the only way they get things done, but I don't want to deal with them again. They did replace all of the plumbing as well as making a space for stackable washer and dryer, so I am very happy with that remodel.

The guy who did the kitchen was awful. He did hire an excellent cabinet maker, but everything was very slow and he made a few minor mistakes, but wouldn't agree to reduce the bill. They didn't replace the plumbing or electrical parts and we didn't to have the floor tile replaced. All they did was counter tops, and cabinets along with replacing the sink.

That is my reason for wanting a home that is "move in ready" if we move again. I think a lot of people feel the same way. Of course, the other reason is that a good percentage of people probably don't have the extra money to remodel, or don't want to get a second mortgage for remodeling. When we bought our current home 25 years ago, nothing we looked at was totally updated. Things have changed a lot since then.

 

[Playball40]

I understand that most people want "move in ready" because I want that too. It's not so much due to labor shortages etc. I've had a kitchen and bathroom remodel done 10 and 12 years ago. No matter what a contractor tells you, the job usually ends up taking much longer. It's stressful and sometimes exasperating to deal with contractors. The one I had that did the bathroom did a very good job, but it took months. One time he told us that he'd have his workers there while we were on vacation. When we got back, they hadn't done a thing. Almost every time I saw him, he felt the need to tell me about the 140K kitchen remodel he was doing in Buckhead, as if I cared. This might be the only way they get things done, but I don't want to deal with them again. They did replace all of the plumbing as well as making a space for stackable washer and dryer, so I am very happy with that remodel.

The guy who did the kitchen was awful. He did hire an excellent cabinet maker, but everything was very slow and he made a few minor mistakes, but wouldn't agree to reduce the bill. They didn't replace the plumbing or electrical parts and we didn't to have the floor tile replaced. All they did was counter tops, and cabinets along with replacing the sink.

That is my reason for wanting a home that is "move in ready" if we move again. I think a lot of people feel the same way. Of course, the other reason is that a good percentage of people probably don't have the extra money to remodel, or don't want to get a second mortgage for remodeling. When we bought our current home 25 years ago, nothing we looked at was totally updated. Things have changed a lot since then.

The thought of having to do all the upgrades to make my home "move in ready" gives me anxiety. I KNOW I'm never getting out of HELL.

 

[gmbteach]

When I lived in Mount Isa, I purchased a three bed house for $90k and we overpaid by about $3k. Within a year it was worth $120k, and when I was leaving the ex, it was worth $290, and within 6 months, I sold it for $320. You couldn’t sell that house for anything more than $150 now simple because, of the glut of houses in the area. sounds like a good investment, except my ex, as we know, was a dropkick dickhead who gambled and continuously put himself into debt.

when I left there in 2011, I bought a 3 bed down here for $260, out $30 into it either he purpose of staying there, but we sold it a couple of years later as we were not getting enough in rent to cover the mortgage. I sold it for $277. Still made a loss on it though. It sold a year ago for $320 - cheap considering the exact same house next door sold for $550 about 6 Months after that.

Marsden usually has a flat market, but lately houses are selling quickly and there are heaps of them.

I like our house, but I am frustrated with it as we don’t have a library space, and I think the layout now is wrong. There is a lot to do, and it’s going to take a lot of money to do it. My brother is doing the back stairs at the moment (which have needed doing since we moved in) and while I would love to move, Murray the Mulberry and Barry the Bay trees couldn’t come with us.

 

[southernhybrid]

Although our current home has increased in value over the past several years, it stayed at about the same price we paid for it for a long time. It increased a bit around 2005, but lost value again during the recession. We lost money or barely made any money on all of the other homes we owned. We moved too much, as Mr. Sohy was always unhappy with his job, until he finally found one near here that he loved. He only worked there for 7 or 8 years and then the plant closed down. If we had stayed put in SC or NC, we'd be in better shape, I think. We have savings and have always lived below our means, so we should be fine.