California Doing California Things

[ZiprHead]

The alternatives to the plastic bags aren't exactly stellar examples of environmentalism. IIRC, paper bags are more energy intensive to make than the single use plastic bags, and require trees. The washable ones get nasty fast, and have to be washed pretty frequently. IIRC, the end result of that is they also require more energy overall than plastic.

Yes. We should all be wearing disposable plastic bags instead of clothing made from cloth. The damned clothing gets dirty so quickly.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Even some Republican-leaning states, like parts of South Carolina and North Carolina,

Parts of states are not states. I strongly suspect jurisdictions with plastic bag ban are Dem-run cities and counties.

have put similar plastic bag bans in place to protect their environments. It’s not just a California thing—this is about tackling a real environmental issue.

What is the total mass of all single-use plastic bags? I doubt it amounts to that much, so the environmental benefit will be small, just like with banning plastic straws.

Another one of these "it's too small a problem to be worth solving" kind of things, right? Even if solving a small problem can make some things better. Too bad there's no Constitutional Amendment guaranteeing the rights of people to plastic bags.

 

[thebeave]

The alternatives to the plastic bags aren't exactly stellar examples of environmentalism. IIRC, paper bags are more energy intensive to make than the single use plastic bags, and require trees. The washable ones get nasty fast, and have to be washed pretty frequently. IIRC, the end result of that is they also require more energy overall than plastic.

Yes. We should all be wearing disposable plastic bags instead of clothing made from cloth. The damned clothing gets dirty so quickly.

Well, I do recall you saying once that you "sharted", so maybe wearing disposable plastic bags is not such a bad idea.

 

[ZiprHead]

Even some Republican-leaning states, like parts of South Carolina and North Carolina,

Parts of states are not states. I strongly suspect jurisdictions with plastic bag ban are Dem-run cities and counties.

have put similar plastic bag bans in place to protect their environments. It’s not just a California thing—this is about tackling a real environmental issue.

What is the total mass of all single-use plastic bags? I doubt it amounts to that much, so the environmental benefit will be small, just like with banning plastic straws.

Another one of these "it's too small a problem to be worth solving" kind of things, right? Even if solving a small problem can make some things better. Too bad there's no Constitutional Amendment guaranteeing the rights of people to plastic bags.

Per Google AI:

According to estimates, the total mass of plastic bags in the ocean is roughly equivalent to 8 million metric tonsof plastic, which translates to well over a trillion individual plastic bags, based on the average weight of a single bag being around 6 grams.


Key points about plastic bags in the ocean:

• Large volume:
  Experts believe that around 8 million tons of plastic enter the ocean annually, with a significant portion being plastic bags.
  
  
  
• Microplastics:
  Plastic bags break down into smaller microplastics, further contributing to pollution.
  
  
  
• Garbage patches:
  A large portion of this plastic accumulates in areas like the Great Pacific Garbage Patch.

Yup, totally insignificant.

 

[robnisch]

A big problem with plastic bag that go to the land fill is that they reduce the amount of water peculation that helps break down the waste.

 

[Gospel]

Parts of states are not states. I strongly suspect jurisdictions with plastic bag ban are Dem-run cities and counties

Horry County, SC, home to North Myrtle Beach, is a strongly conservative area that has implemented a single-use plastic bag ban. The same goes for Beaufort County, where Hilton Head Island has also adopted similar bans. These are just two examples of Republican-leaning regions taking action to protect the environment. Not all conservatives disregard science or critical thinking. That's a personal choice.

Edit: I never claimed entire states—what I specifically said was 'parts of.' I'm addressing the oversimplified party-line argument, which I find flawed. People are far from monolithic, even within political affiliations. It might seem that way if all you focus on is the presidential ticket, but even then, the diversity of opinion is evident.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Even some Republican-leaning states, like parts of South Carolina and North Carolina,

Parts of states are not states. I strongly suspect jurisdictions with plastic bag ban are Dem-run cities and counties.

have put similar plastic bag bans in place to protect their environments. It’s not just a California thing—this is about tackling a real environmental issue.

What is the total mass of all single-use plastic bags? I doubt it amounts to that much, so the environmental benefit will be small, just like with banning plastic straws.

Another one of these "it's too small a problem to be worth solving" kind of things, right? Even if solving a small problem can make some things better. Too bad there's no Constitutional Amendment guaranteeing the rights of people to plastic bags.

Per Google AI:

According to estimates, the total mass of plastic bags in the ocean is roughly equivalent to 8 million metric tonsof plastic, which translates to well over a trillion individual plastic bags, based on the average weight of a single bag being around 6 grams.


Key points about plastic bags in the ocean:

• Large volume:
  Experts believe that around 8 million tons of plastic enter the ocean annually, with a significant portion being plastic bags.
  
  
  
• Microplastics:
  Plastic bags break down into smaller microplastics, further contributing to pollution.
  
  
  
• Garbage patches:
  A large portion of this plastic accumulates in areas like the Great Pacific Garbage Patch.

Yup, totally insignificant.

Well, how many tons is the ocean? My phone says 1.35e18 metric tons. 8 million is a pittance in comparison. Hardly worth even a thought.

 

[TV and credit cards]

The alternatives to the plastic bags aren't exactly stellar examples of environmentalism. IIRC, paper bags are more energy intensive to make than the single use plastic bags, and require trees. The washable ones get nasty fast, and have to be washed pretty frequently. IIRC, the end result of that is they also require more energy overall than plastic.

I’ve been using canvas bags for ten years or more. They don’t get nasty. What are you doing, throwing raw meat in there? I get a few onion skins to shake out from time to time and I do wash them every couple months just on ceremony.
What plastic bags I might accumulate I use to wrap paint brushes and rollers if I need to use them the next day.

 

[Gospel]

When my wife and I shop, we don’t encounter plastic bags often. We frequent places like Save-A-Lot for some groceries, Kroger online, and Sam’s Club where we use Scan & Go—none of which involve plastic bags. When offered, we always decline, and if we somehow end up with one, we make sure to drop it off at Publix, which has a single-use plastic bag recycling bin. At Publix, if they start bagging our groceries, we politely decline and ask them to just place everything loose in the cart. I have a decommissioned laundry basket (solely for this purpose) in my car, which makes it easy to move everything from the driveway straight inside.

Edit: FYI not everyone has the luxury of a car and laundry basket.

 

[Gospel]

Well, how many tons is the ocean? My phone says 1.35e18 metric tons. 8 million is a pittance in comparison. Hardly worth even a thought.

The ocean is enormous compared to the amount of plastic waste, but it's not just about the water—it’s about the delicate ecosystems that thrive within it.

 

[thebeave]

The alternatives to the plastic bags aren't exactly stellar examples of environmentalism. IIRC, paper bags are more energy intensive to make than the single use plastic bags, and require trees. The washable ones get nasty fast, and have to be washed pretty frequently. IIRC, the end result of that is they also require more energy overall than plastic.

I’ve been using canvas bags for ten years or more. They don’t get nasty. What are you doing, throwing raw meat in there? I get a few onion skins to shake out from time to time and I do wash them every couple months just on ceremony.
What plastic bags I might accumulate I use to wrap paint brushes and rollers if I need to use them the next day.

Well, I don't have personal experience with the cloth bags...I'm just repeating what I've read and heard from others. Depends on a lot of factors as to how bad your cloth bags get. What you're buying, how often you shop, how careful you are, how far you have to drive (frozen food can start thawing), etc. Check this out... And this.

I do reuse my plastic bags. The two storage pockets on both the driver and passenger doors of my Tacoma are always filled to the brim with plastic shopping (and bread) bags. I use them as small trash bags on the job as well as wrapping paint brushes, rollers, etc like you. They are very handy to have. About a week ago I had to get a smelly, maggot infested rat out of an attic and I triple bagged him with my shopping bags.

 

[TomC]

The alternatives to the plastic bags aren't exactly stellar examples of environmentalism. IIRC, paper bags are more energy intensive to make than the single use plastic bags, and require trees. The washable ones get nasty fast, and have to be washed pretty frequently. IIRC, the end result of that is they also require more energy overall than plastic.

I’ve been using canvas bags for ten years or more. They don’t get nasty. What are you doing, throwing raw meat in there? I get a few onion skins to shake out from time to time and I do wash them every couple months just on ceremony.
What plastic bags I might accumulate I use to wrap paint brushes and rollers if I need to use them the next day.

Really this.
I keep my shopping stuff in the trunk of the car. Three assorted sized cardboard boxes that nest, and a big tote bag with some disposable plastic bags in the small bag. I hardly ever use those, but sometimes.

Most of the check out clerks at Aldi's know me well enough to know what goes in which box, and why. Frozen food and meat in the little box. Canned goods in the medium box. Everything else in the big box, or on top. I hardly ever have to explain this to new people more than 3 or 4 times before they are properly trained.
Tom

 

[thebeave]

The alternatives to the plastic bags aren't exactly stellar examples of environmentalism. IIRC, paper bags are more energy intensive to make than the single use plastic bags, and require trees. The washable ones get nasty fast, and have to be washed pretty frequently. IIRC, the end result of that is they also require more energy overall than plastic.

I’ve been using canvas bags for ten years or more. They don’t get nasty. What are you doing, throwing raw meat in there? I get a few onion skins to shake out from time to time and I do wash them every couple months just on ceremony.
What plastic bags I might accumulate I use to wrap paint brushes and rollers if I need to use them the next day.

Really this.
I keep my shopping stuff in the trunk of the car. Three assorted sized cardboard boxes that nest, and a big tote bag with some disposable plastic bags in the small bag. I hardly ever use those, but sometimes.

Most of the check out clerks at Aldi's know me well enough to know what goes in which box, and why. Frozen food and meat in the little box. Canned goods in the medium box. Everything else in the big box, or on top. I hardly ever have to explain this to new people more than 3 or 4 times before they are properly trained.
Tom

Dang, you really get into it. I've never seen anyone go to that much effort out here in CA. In fact it seems that since covid ended almost no one seems to use their canvas bags anymore. As I recall, the rule back then was that stores had to give you your groceries in new, plastic bags. Few people restarted their old ways.

 

[TSwizzle]

In fact it seems that since covid ended almost no one seems to use their canvas bags anymore. As I recall, the rule back then was that stores had to give you your groceries in new, plastic bags. Few people restarted their

lol, just following the science.

 

[Elixir]

I also have the big cardboard tote box and assorted size reusable bags (incl canvas) in the back of the car. It’s been a PITA modifying my habits. It has required many trips back to the car to get the bag or or box … but often I can ditch the cart at the store. Try that with eight plastic bags full of assorted stuff! Carrying stuff to the car saves pushing the stupid cart around the lot trying to remember where the nearest cart corral is.
So there’s that.

 

[Rhea]

The alternatives to the plastic bags aren't exactly stellar examples of environmentalism. IIRC, paper bags are more energy intensive to make than the single use plastic bags, and require trees. The washable ones get nasty fast, and have to be washed pretty frequently. IIRC, the end result of that is they also require more energy overall than plastic.

Well, I don't have personal experience with the cloth bags...I'm just repeating what I've read and heard from others. Depends on a lot of factors as to how bad your cloth bags get. What you're buying, how often you shop, how careful you are, how far you have to drive (frozen food can start thawing), etc.

Wow some of y’all be messy shoppers! And are repeating stories from a few bizarre people who would be just as yucky with a plastic bag.

I’ve been on re-usables for 20+ years. Most of my bags last 10+ years. My frozen food is fine because I have an insulated bag for that. My fabric ones are easy to wash and can disinfect (for free) in the sun. And even if you do wash them in the laundry, it’s not enough to need a whole extra load or anything. Just toss it in with the day’s wash along with the cloth napkins and the washcloth from the kitchen sink.

This is not that hard.

I have a bunch of nylon ones that fold up small enough to fit a few in my back pocket, and some of those thicker plastic ones that always ge left at my house after book club. And the soft-sided insulated ones that have a million wonderful uses like potluck and dinner for the drive-in, in addition to keeping the frozen stuff cold on the way home.

It feels like the rants of “you might as well use disposable plastic are from sources with an agenda. The single use ones are a blight on the landscape, they are ugly, they blow off the top of the landfill, they kill wildlife, and attract MUCH nastier stuff in the trash than a reused bag does.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Well, how many tons is the ocean? My phone says 1.35e18 metric tons. 8 million is a pittance in comparison. Hardly worth even a thought.

The ocean is enormous compared to the amount of plastic waste, but it's not just about the water—it’s about the delicate ecosystems that thrive within it.

We can just use our thoughts and prayers to save those ecosystems.

 

[Elixir]

It feels like the rants of “you might as well use disposable plastic are from sources with an agenda. The single use ones are a blight on the landscape, they are ugly, they blow off the top of the landfill, they kill wildlife, and attract MUCH nastier stuff in the trash than a reused bag does.

I KNOW BUT I NEED THEM!

Seriously, I pick up way more that have blown onto my property than I contribute of my own, as has been the case for 15 years, since development came to the area. It has noticeably decreased since the ban went into effect.

 

[Politesse]

What is the total mass of all single-use plastic bags?

California disposes of around 158 tons each year, according to CalRecycle. If you want to call that a small amount, I guess no one can stop you, but compared to what I can't imagine.

 

[robnisch]

Where I live the vast majority of people use reuseable bags. I think my sister has at least 20. But, Oregonians have always been a bit odd.