Chicago Teachers Union celebrates a cop killer

[Emily Lake]

As usual, you are not willing to do any fact checking yourself. The police officers were Brian Sicknick,

Stroke

Stroke immediately after major trauma is normally due to the trauma. You get injuries, clots form, clots break loose. Stroke, heart attack, and pulmonary embolism can happen.

You're not wrong that major physical trauma can lead to stroke. I'm not sure that pepper spray can be considered to cause major physical trauma.

 

[laughing dog]

My argument is solid. I said that their deaths were a result of J6. I never said that they occurred at the event itself.

Do you also take the position with respect to any police who were involved in riots after Floyd's death, and who subsequently committed suicide, or died from stroke, heart attack, or other stress-related event? Or is this attribution of responsibility related solely to this one event, and not applicable to any other similar civil unrest?

I don’t know of any. If you do, please educate any reader and please provide a link.

Otherwise it seems your response is a hand-waved “whataboutism “.

 

[Toni]

As usual, you are not willing to do any fact checking yourself. The police officers were Brian Sicknick,

Stroke

Stroke immediately after major trauma is normally due to the trauma. You get injuries, clots form, clots break loose. Stroke, heart attack, and pulmonary embolism can happen.

You're not wrong that major physical trauma can lead to stroke. I'm not sure that pepper spray can be considered to cause major physical trauma.

Do you think that the worst assault suffered by police officers was pepper spray? Unfortunately not.

Respecting and honoring the heroes of January 6th

www.policeforum.org

When I fell behind that [MPD] line, I can just remember my breath catching in my throat, because what I saw was just a war scene. It was something like I had seen out of the movies. I couldn’t believe my eyes. There were officers on the ground. They were bleeding. They were throwing up. I saw friends with blood all over their faces. I was slipping in people’s blood. I was catching people as they fell. It was carnage. It was chaos. I can’t even describe what I saw. Never in my wildest dreams did I think that as a police officer, as a law enforcement officer, I would find myself in the middle of a battle. I’m trained to detain a couple of subjects and handle a crowd. But I’m not combat trained. That day, it was just hours of hand-to-hand combat, hours of dealing with things that were way beyond any law enforcement officer has ever trained for. I just remember that moment of stepping behind that line and seeing the absolute war zone that the West Front had become.

Here’s a link to a NYT video:

 

[Shadowy Man]

Nothing. Just like “Schools should be places of education not indoctrination” has nothing to do with a union expressing any opinion about anything.

Do you really think that a teachers' union expressing an extremist political position has no effect of what is peddled in the classroom?

I would think that the burden of proof is on you to show that there is an effect. Does the teachers’ union develop curricula?

 

[Shadowy Man]

As usual, you are not willing to do any fact checking yourself. The police officers were Brian Sicknick,

Stroke

Stroke immediately after major trauma is normally due to the trauma. You get injuries, clots form, clots break loose. Stroke, heart attack, and pulmonary embolism can happen.

You're not wrong that major physical trauma can lead to stroke. I'm not sure that pepper spray can be considered to cause major physical trauma.

Was pepper spray the full extent of the attacks on the police officers? Some got concussions, I think one lost an eye and another got attacked by his own taser multiple times, among may other attacks. You can google a list of injuries suffered by the police.

 

[Spacetime Inhabitant]

This tells everyone that you have no real awareness of what happened that day. Several police personnel died as a result of the event.

Who is "several"? I know one (Brian Sicknick) suffered a stroke, probably as an effect of what happened. Who are the others though?

For the record, I do think everybody involved in things like assaulting cops should serve substantial prison sentences. Those who were merely trespassing, not so much.
And this is still a derail here.

But you don't care about that. To say "a female protester was killed by a cop" misrepresents what actually happened - she was attempting to illegally enter the building for the purpose of enabling more of the insurrectionists to enter. She was a former member of the military, so she was violating her oath. Her death was the result of her own actions. She was not a "protester".

Funny how the same people who think killing an unarmed white woman for trespassing is justified also think that killing an unarmed black man who assaulted a police officer is not only unjustified, but also justifies violent riots and arson (aka, "burn this bitch down").

She was not simply trespassing - that is things like walking on a lawn - she was violently breaking and entering, with the support of armed people. She was killed by police who were defending themselves, the building, and the people in the building.
Floyd was murdered (confirmed by a court). His record is irrelevant, as police are supposed to protect people, not assault them.
At the times of their deaths the woman was committing a crime, her death was her own fault and justified (as not murder) and the man wasn't, and the reaction with the latter was based on a history of ignoring murders by police. It may not be justifiable, but it is understandable.

This

Do you also take the position with respect to any police who were involved in riots after Floyd's death, and who subsequently committed suicide, or died from stroke, heart attack, or other stress-related event? Or is this attribution of responsibility related solely to this one event, and not applicable to any other similar civil unrest?

I doubt that any police man would be traumatised by these events, and therefore would not commit suicide as a result. You are drawing a long bow. The events of J6 involved major crimes committed by a large group of armed violent people, where police personnel were at grave risk. With most riots, police are at minimal risk.

 

[Gospel]

She was duly convicted of that. She was also accused of other crimes, but feds could not get convictions on those - often on technicalities - which does not mean she was not guilty of those as well.
I know her fans say that she could not have pulled the trigger after she was shot herself. But even if that were true - and the jury rejected that argument - she was still an active member of a domestic terrorist organization and she still participated in the deadly ambush of police officers. So, felony murder at the very least.

The main evidence was the surviving trooper’s testimony plus her presence and ties to the BLA. Ballistics and forensic tests did not prove she fired a weapon, which is why her supporters argue she was politically targeted more than fairly convicted. She was shot in the back, by the way. But I’m sure that detail doesn’t matter to you, just like the long history of law enforcement being unreliable when it comes to not violating the law and peoples rights. What conditions do you imagine gave rise to an organization like the BLA in the first place?

 

[scombrid]

I recently listened to a This American Life replay of their Harold Washington story that first aired in 1997. Folks that aren't familiar with the rampant systemic racism in Chicago up through the 1980s should give it a listen.

 

[bilby]

So, felony murder at the very least.

American law is seriously fucked. An insane proportion of your population is in prison, and you have people being convicted of murder, when the prosecutor, judges, and jury all agree with the defence that that person has not killed anyone.

In a civilised country, you cannot be convicted of murder when you can prove in court that you didn't kill anyone. Shit, in a civilised country, you cannot be convicted of murder if the prosecution cannot prove beyond reasonable doubt that you did actually kill someone.

The very concept of "felony murder" is an obscene travesty of justice.

Guilt by association is an unconscionable part of any legal process, and shouldn't be prosecutable in a shoplifting case, much less a murder case.

The very idea of "felony murder" is morally bankrupt, and stems from the utterly false quasi-religious belief that there are "bad people" who can be identified, and separated from the "good people".

 

[Emily Lake]

As usual, you are not willing to do any fact checking yourself. The police officers were Brian Sicknick,

Stroke

Stroke immediately after major trauma is normally due to the trauma. You get injuries, clots form, clots break loose. Stroke, heart attack, and pulmonary embolism can happen.

You're not wrong that major physical trauma can lead to stroke. I'm not sure that pepper spray can be considered to cause major physical trauma.

Do you think that the worst assault suffered by police officers was pepper spray? Unfortunately not.

I didn't suggest that pepper spray was the only assault suffered.

Brian Sicknick, who died of a stroke several days after Jan 6, was only assaulted with pepper spray.

 

[laughing dog]

As usual, you are not willing to do any fact checking yourself. The police officers were Brian Sicknick,

Stroke

Stroke immediately after major trauma is normally due to the trauma. You get injuries, clots form, clots break loose. Stroke, heart attack, and pulmonary embolism can happen.

You're not wrong that major physical trauma can lead to stroke. I'm not sure that pepper spray can be considered to cause major physical trauma.

Do you think that the worst assault suffered by police officers was pepper spray? Unfortunately not.

I didn't suggest that pepper spray was the only assault suffered.

Brian Sicknick, who died of a stroke several days after Jan 6, was only assaulted with pepper spray.

Between the pepper spray and the stress of being a target in a riot, Officer Sicknick suffered two strokes before going to the hospital.

I think it would be odd if the riot and/or the assault were not factors in his death.