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Split City Vs Country Politics

To notify a split thread.
Humans want societal partitions and an excuse to be angry at, or hate, or feel superior to, other people without having to come up with a rationally justifiable reason for it.
Where are you disagreeing with me? FB's success is predicated on that being the case. People have confirmation biases, FB exploits them, feeds them, nurtures them NO MATTER HOW WACK.

"All those who believe that posters with user_names beginning with PR are The Devil, come to our FB group and meet the other two dozen people who believe the same thing. Together maybe we can eradicate, or at least mitigate this threat!" *

Next thing you know, they're out hunting them down in cold blood.
That didn't used to happen on message boards.

* If you don't believe me, try creating a new FB account and posting some ridiculous conspiracy crap, and see what innocent little Facebook coughs up for you!
 
I agree with Toni that in general, bumkins, hillbillies or whatever, are no less intelligent that City Slickers. (Of course if you remove Donald Trump from the City Slicker category, it gets a lot smarter).
Ok well maybe you can provide some kind of answer to this, because I know for a certainty that Toni absolutely will not:
So why do they keep touching the hot stove over and over and over?

Republicans cause 95% of the problems rural people face - political, economic, cultural, infrastructural, you name it.
Republican free market deregulation caused the factories to disappear. Republican austerity caused the support systems to disappear. Republican culture war bullshit is causing their isolation from the broader human community. On and on and on, every measurable issue rural communities face are either directly caused by or made much worse by Republicans, and yet they keep voting for Republicans.

So... what's up with that?
 
I agree with Toni that in general, bumkins, hillbillies or whatever, are no less intelligent that City Slickers. (Of course if you remove Donald Trump from the City Slicker category, it gets a lot smarter).
Ok well maybe you can provide some kind of answer to this, because I know for a certainty that Toni absolutely will not:
So why do they keep touching the hot stove over and over and over?

Republicans cause 95% of the problems rural people face - political, economic, cultural, infrastructural, you name it.
Republican free market deregulation caused the factories to disappear. Republican austerity caused the support systems to disappear. Republican culture war bullshit is causing their isolation from the broader human community. On and on and on, every measurable issue rural communities face are either directly caused by or made much worse by Republicans, and yet they keep voting for Republicans.

So... what's up with that?

I can't begin to explain it. Evidently though, it does correlate heavily with the presence and audience % of FOX and the other named media suspects. Just not sure which way(s) the causal arrow points or what other factors are in play. Around here, even amid the coarsening of right wing BS in general, I sense a softening in most of the die-hard conservatives I encounter. I think they know they fucked up. Over the last 20 years this community/county has taken a hard turn to the left. It was dead red, now it goes blue most of the time.
 
Many rural areas do not have good access to internet services. In my area, I can go just a few miles out of town and have zero phone reception until I get into a more open area without large hills blocking signal. So that’s part of the issue.
So, you're moving the goalposts from "internet" to "good internet" - which is interesting, because I recall using a 36kbs modem in the mid 90s and somehow I didn't turn into a racist idiot who sought to ruin my own life.

Here's a simple fact that lots and lots and LOTS of people just like you (and my mother, who proved this point by spending her life in a decently progressive college town before moving out to the middle of nowhere and rapidly becoming a bigoted neo-libertarian piece of shit through some kind of Rural Stupidity Osmosis) really don't want to admit:
If you're *not* already a dim-witted bigot and you see a racist propagandistic lie on the internet, your reaction is to go "Huh, well that seems like bullshit" and then either discard the notion entirely, or do some googling to verify that you can debunk it.

But if you're inclined to being a nit-wit who wants to believe that blacks are genetically inferior and Mexicans are stealing your jobs, etc etc, seeing a "news article" on Facebook that affirms that view is something you just automatically believe without question and then start trying to tell others is the truth.

A splotchy internet connection is not an excuse, the fundamental reason that "the internet" is a boogeyman right now is because blaming "the internet" is way more comfortable for certain people than acknowledging that "people are stupid."

Another issue is exactly the attitudes expressed in this thread.
Ooooo boy, here we go again!
Seeing as how I'm in the only one who has given any pushback to your attempt at creating a narrative that "city people" get up in the morning and brush their teeth and get dressed and then go out to spend all day at the "let's hate country folk" meetings, when you say "the attitudes in this thread" you're pretty much just talking about me.
But, I'll make note that several pages in you and your defenders have yet to counter a single point that I've made, you're still just braying like mules over how butt hurt you are that I'm vaguely lurid in my prose.

People in rural areas are no different—not less intelligent or less caring or less creative or less patriotic than people in urban centers. They do have different points of view ( note: multiple points of view).
Simple question, should have a simple answer:
if they're not less intelligent, why do they keep doing a less-intelligent thing that causing most of their problems?

One issue is that big city folks are always calling them very ugly names ( see this thread).
You heard it here, folks!
I, personally, am GOD and my meanie-poopy-head owie time words have shattered the veil of physical reality and caused the decline in rural economics.

And yes it's only me, because I'm probably literally the only city person who has said anything about rural people (positive or negative, using polite language or foul) in about 15 years... because you keep trying to peddle this lie that "city people" have an opinion about rural people one way or another. Hint: they don't.

Another is that government ( state, federal) impose policies and make policies that are not in the best interests of rural people. Or are contrary to what people want. And when politics are played with farm programs, it creates a lot of uncertainty and instability for farmers—which ripples through the entire community.
Ssssooooo what you're saying is that rural people vote Republican and then Republicans spend 80 years systematically destroying their way of life, and then they keep voting Republican, and so in the end you completely agree with everything I've said?

Honestly Toni I know you don't get it, but YOU have been badly representing rural people in this thread and doing all the damage to their image - if there's a problem with anyone's attitude about rural folks going on here, it's yours.
You are talking about rural people as being completely identical, nay superior, to any other type of human and won't shut up about how proud and noble and aggrieved they are, which contrasts much more strongly with how utterly fucking stupid they are politically and culturally.
At least I have a notion as to A. why the current situation exists and B. how to deal with it, even if my language seems to make you want to lock yourself in a bathroom and cry.
All you're doing is presenting this vapid and empty soapbox about how the noble rural is so put-upon, and then detailing out precisely how every single problem they have is their own fault, while *still* blaming it on me because I don't lick their assholes delicately enough.

In my home state: An interstate was built through my county when I was a kid. In order to built it, they took big swaths of farmland through imminent domain. One of the farms they acquired parts of belonged to a family member. Oh, they were financially compensated but it ruined most of the farmland and changed a very beautiful vista from a lovely farmhouse into a view of the interstate. That land had been in the family for 100 years or more. I understand that means nothing to most city dwellers but it means a tremendous amount to people who lose their land. Did the interstate need to be built? Of course it did. But multiply that experience many times over and you get one tiny inkling of why people resent people from the outside imposing what is best for other people on them. Changing routes of highways and interstates makes and breaks towns and communities.
What you don't understand is your delightful little stories of woe are completely irrelevant, because nobody for a second has ever suggested that rural people aren't having problems that have been imposed on them by others - hell, that was the main point of my first post in this thread.

But this lovely little tale of yours doesn't explain why: A. the rural people voted for the Republicans who use imminent domain to take people's land all willy-nilly in the first place, and B. why they keep voting for Republicans when Republicans are the one causing all their sorrow, and C. why you keep blaming "city people" for the fact that they keep voting for Republicans who are causing all their problems.

So explain that one, Toni... it shouldn't be hard. You've spent 4 pages crying about how mean I am, and then spewing out what I'm sure you think are flowery speeches about the plight of the rural farmer, so you must have the solution here, right?

Republicans cause all their problems. They repeatedly vote Republican. Republicans continue to cause all their problems. They keep voting Republican. They're just as smart... nay, in fact, they're SMARTER! BETTER! STRONGER! FASTER! than city folk, and yet they keep on voting Republican because Facebook lied to them?
So what's the deal here Professor Toni - you claim to have all the answers, enlighten this besmirched bigot on the brilliant truths you're privy to.
Who said I was referring to YOU? As far as I know, you don't make public policy.

Believe it or not there are places where internet isn't available, period. Less than even 10 years ago, sure.

But assume that there is internet....nearly everywhere: There is a lot of absolute shit spread all over the internet and some of it is explicitly designed to appeal to cracks in social contracts and to exploit vulnerabilities and prejudices.

Nothing is fixed without some respect being shown. You seem incapable of that. You seem unwilling to attempt that. You seem unwilling to do anything except to complain about people you don't know in hyperbolic phrases that come across as a major temper tantrum rather than a reasoned argument. You also seem to believe that ALL rural voters vote Republican, and that NO urban or suburban voters do. I've shown you differently but you keep on doing what you are doing. It looks so good on you.
 
Humans want societal partitions and an excuse to be angry at, or hate, or feel superior to, other people without having to come up with a rationally justifiable reason for it.
Where are you disagreeing with me?
Where you seem to be inclined to blame this on "the internet" or "facebook", some kind of manipulation of innocent people by nefarious forces.
Or maybe I'm just reading that into what you're saying, because most people defend the narrative that "the people" aren't responsible for their bigotry and malice, that it was all the mainstream media and the politicians who took these honest caring hardworking folk and forced them at gun point to be Q-anon.

This is an assumed truth about the modern world that I stridently disagree with. I don't blame Facebook or the media for the way people are, I blame the way people are for Facebook and the media - these are tools that were molded by the wants of the people, they are a reflection of what humans really are deep down.

It's like that Microsoft chat bot that got fed hundreds of thousands of pages of Twitter and started spewing out racist bigotry... it's not the bot's fault that it accurately responded to the stimulus it was fed.

FB's success is predicated on that being the case. People have confirmation biases, FB exploits them, feeds them, nurtures them NO MATTER HOW WACK.

"All those who believe that posters with user_names beginning with PR are The Devil, come to our FB group and meet the other two dozen people who believe the same thing. Together maybe we can eradicate, or at least mitigate this threat!"

Next thing you know, they're out hunting them down in cold blood.
That didn't used to happen on message boards.
I remember that it absolutely did happen on message boards, it's just that back then message boards hadn't hit a critical mass point where everyone noticed what was going on on message boards.

FB isn't exploiting them, FB is just giving them what they demanded and what they would believe anyways regardless if FB was there.
I feel like FB just makes for a convenient target - if I bought into that bullshit, I could easily say that my mother is a normal sweet old lady who would never hate anyone but that nasty evil mean Facebook tricked her!
But no... my mother is a Northern Ohio redneck piece of shit who turned into a Qanon fucktard the nancosecond that she left the cultural pressure of a college town pushing back her impulse to do that.

This is true of most people - the hatred and the bigotry is there because they were too stupid and weak to avoid being indoctrinated by it as children or overcome it when they got older, and they're just spewing poison into the rest of the world and ruining everything else for the rest of us.
 
Nothing is fixed without some respect being shown. You seem incapable of that. You seem unwilling to attempt that. You seem unwilling to do anything except to complain about people you don't know in hyperbolic phrases that come across as a major temper tantrum rather than a reasoned argument. You also seem to believe that ALL rural voters vote Republican, and that NO urban or suburban voters do. I've shown you differently but you keep on doing what you are doing. It looks so good on you.
Allow me to take a moment to express my complete shock that the only response you're capable of, yet again, is to cry and whine and offer zero rational argument or counter-point to anything being said.

[removed]

Here's a hint about reality: I never said rural voters only vote Republican or that urban voters don't, I said it's irrelevant to the discussion because urban counties end up electing Democrats.
You know why urban counties end up electing Democrats? Because in urban counties, more people vote Democrat than vote Republican.
Republicans get elected in rural counties. You know why? Because in rural counties, more people vote Republican than vote Democrat.
This isn't rocket surgery, though apparently even this most simple and basic of political facts is beyond your comprehension.

Well done. Bravo. And so predictable.
 
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Where you seem to be inclined to blame this on "the internet" or "facebook", some kind of manipulation of innocent people by nefarious forces

If you are inclined to disregard the influences I mentioned above, then we do disagree. I don’t hold the fucking bumpkins harmless, I just don’t think that treating them collectively as an evil incarnate can be productive.

ETA maybe because I am one? It has been 50 years since I lived in a “real” city and that was San Fran, so …
 
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Where you seem to be inclined to blame this on "the internet" or "facebook", some kind of manipulation of innocent people by nefarious forces

If you are inclined to disregard the influences mentioned again, then we do disagree.
I don't disregard the influence as such, but I'm fairly certain that I perceive the influence going in the opposite direction that you do, and I don't understand the logic behind how you seem to think it works.

I don’t hold the fucking bumpkins harmless, I just don’t think that treating them collectively as an evil incarnate can be productive.
Well neither do I, so I don't really know where that came from - I'm sure neither of us think that large curd cottage cheese is a good solution for the geopolitical situation with North Korea, but it seems kind of odd to have to point that out.
 
Where you seem to be inclined to blame this on "the internet" or "facebook", some kind of manipulation of innocent people by nefarious forces

If you are inclined to disregard the influences mentioned again, then we do disagree.
I don't disregard the influence as such, but I'm fairly certain that I perceive the influence going in the opposite direction that you do, and I don't understand the logic behind how you seem to think it works.

I don’t hold the fucking bumpkins harmless, I just don’t think that treating them collectively as an evil incarnate can be productive.
Well neither do I, so I don't really know where that came from - I'm sure neither of us think that large curd cottage cheese is a good solution for the geopolitical situation with North Korea, but it seems kind of odd to have to point that out.
Of course you do because like me, it is likely that what comes through your social media feeds leans a lot more liberal than it does for some of my conservative friends.
 
Where you seem to be inclined to blame this on "the internet" or "facebook", some kind of manipulation of innocent people by nefarious forces

If you are inclined to disregard the influences mentioned again, then we do disagree. I don’t hold the fucking bumpkins harmless, I just don’t think that treating them collectively as an evil incarnate can be productive.
Nor is calling them fucking bumpkins. Or even allowing yourself to think of 'them,' any 'them' in such dismissive terms.
 
Where you seem to be inclined to blame this on "the internet" or "facebook", some kind of manipulation of innocent people by nefarious forces

If you are inclined to disregard the influences mentioned again, then we do disagree. I don’t hold the fucking bumpkins harmless, I just don’t think that treating them collectively as an evil incarnate can be productive.
Nor is calling them fucking bumpkins. Or even allowing yourself to think of 'them,' any 'them' in such dismissive terms.

Nuance, much?
Guess I should have referred to the fucking bumpkins as”us”.
 
Where you seem to be inclined to blame this on "the internet" or "facebook", some kind of manipulation of innocent people by nefarious forces

If you are inclined to disregard the influences mentioned again, then we do disagree.
I don't disregard the influence as such, but I'm fairly certain that I perceive the influence going in the opposite direction that you do, and I don't understand the logic behind how you seem to think it works.

I don’t hold the fucking bumpkins harmless, I just don’t think that treating them collectively as an evil incarnate can be productive.
Well neither do I, so I don't really know where that came from - I'm sure neither of us think that large curd cottage cheese is a good solution for the geopolitical situation with North Korea, but it seems kind of odd to have to point that out.
Of course you do because like me, it is likely that what comes through your social media feeds leans a lot more liberal than it does for some of my conservative friends.
I'll be honest, this is probably a place where I have bias blinders on: I never got into the idea of social media as a news source.
I'm not some internet purist who's all hipster and scoffs at having a Facebook account - I have one, I've used it, I get it - but I remember when Facebook started going "hey we have news now" and my knee-jerk reaction was "fuck you, Facebook, you're not a news site" and I disabled it.

Anyways, my experience is that echo chambers are something you have to enter, and bubbles are something you form around yourself.
These are not things being done to you (royal you, not you specifically Toni) and you're not a blameless victim if it happens to you and you turn into a bigoted cunt because of it.

If you care about it, it's not hard to find information on the world. If you think about it, it's not hard to figure out that "news" is biased and you need to either find a neutral source, or a source where you can filter out the slant and just get the info nuggets.
When people fail to do that, it's because they don't care. Passively buying into the narratives provided by FB or news companies or whatever else is an act of willful sloth. You have to choose to be ignorant, and you have to choose to be complicit in bigotry and stupidity IMO.
 
Adults don't have teachers, they have the internet.

And I spent enough time in the midwest to know that it's mostly willful ignorance.
That's the thing. Adults should have teachers available to them.

Especially in the Midwest
 
Adults don't have teachers, they have the internet.

And I spent enough time in the midwest to know that it's mostly willful ignorance.
That's the thing. Adults should have teachers available to them.

Especially in the Midwest
Especially everywhere. I’ve met some real dumb city folks.
 
Adults don't have teachers, they have the internet.

And I spent enough time in the midwest to know that it's mostly willful ignorance.
That's the thing. Adults should have teachers available to them.

Especially in the Midwest
Would that even help? All the tools are there to not be stupid, but... horses and water and drinking, etc etc.

I feel like if you got some billionaire to privately fund this huge adult education initiative, the right would immediately demonize it as Communist mind-washing, all the dumbfucks would swallow that up immediately, and the only people who would use it are the people who probably don't need it.

Stupidity is like death, or liking pop-country music - it's only painful for those around you, but you're blissfully unaware of the damage you're causing.
 
Okay, I gotta weigh in on this. As perhaps one of the few (only?) people in this thread who actually lives rural.

Who finally got high speed internet as soon as it was available EIGHTEEN MONTHS AGO. First time I streamed a movie was 2021. Who has neighbors still using dial-up because they can’t afford the cost of a satellite dish. That’s 56kbps. K with a kilo. Who has no cell service at the house, nor cable, so even FOX is right out. TV is rabbit ears. Water comes out of the ground on one side of the house, sewer goes into the ground on the other. Heating fuel comes from an oil truck (and split logs), and electricity goes out regularly because we’re the 3rd to last house on the trunk. We’re too small to have a post office, or a gas station, or an ambulance.

Another issue is exactly the attitudes expressed in this thread. People in rural areas are no different—not less intelligent or less caring or less creative or less patriotic than people in urban centers. They do have different points of view ( note: multiple points of view). One issue is that big city folks are always calling them very ugly names ( see this thread).

Toni, you may have some serious numbing nostalgia going on if you think the names being called in this thread are in any way comparable to what many rural folk call city people.

I was reading an article linked earlier and amazingly, the author said the same thing, “city people are mean to us!” Right after he also said, “those city people are thugs and murderers and drug addicts.”

Um? Did he hear himself?
(weren’t you the one who linked the article?)

Another is that government ( state, federal) impose policies and make policies that are not in the best interests of rural people. Or are contrary to what people want. And when politics are played with farm programs, it creates a lot of uncertainty and instability for farmers—which ripples through the entire community.
The government ALSO imposes policies that are fucking fabulous for rural folk, like valuing their ag land at $600/acre, and paying us to keep the brush out of our empty fields, and paving roads to the center of town.

In my home state: An interstate was built through my county when I was a kid. In order to built it, they took big swaths of farmland through imminent domain.

You realize this happens in cities, too, I know. And you realize eminent domain through big swaths of city means nothing to the hill-dwellers.

One of the farms they acquired parts of belonged to a family member. Oh, they were financially compensated but it ruined most of the farmland and changed a very beautiful vista from a lovely farmhouse into a view of the interstate.

My neighbors could not care less that entire Black communities were displaced and NOT compensated for similar highways through cities.


Honestly Toni I know you don't get it, but YOU have been badly representing rural people in this thread and doing all the damage to their image - if there's a problem with anyone's attitude about rural folks going on here, it's yours.

And you (Toni) haven’t been completely accurate about us. Just sayin’.

You are talking about rural people as being completely identical, nay superior, to any other type of human and won't shut up about how proud and noble and aggrieved they are, which contrasts much more strongly with how utterly fucking stupid they are politically and culturally.

Many of the people in my area are indeed monumentally aggrieved. And without cause.

I love a lot of my neighbors, but there are a lot more who hate non-rural people with a passion, dismiss them out of hand and would not, indeed, give the shirt off their back.

I agree that a lot of content is inaccessible in terms of streaming, but Facebook loads identically to Factcheck no matter what your connection speed.
Back to the internet - no, it is not the same. You click on the page, you go get coffee, you put in some laundry, and you come back to see if the picture is on. You CAN NOT load videos, and the page waits for ads. The sites that know this, and run still-picture ads are going to reach the rural folk, will get through, and we will quickly figure out which sites to never visit. Guess which ones load okay?



Not everyone in bumkin towns is a city boy. And they don't always have time to spend seeking out best versions of that "newfangled troublemakin' devilspawn crap what's ruining our kids".
Indeed, the ones in my town fight to defund the public library because it is, and I quote, “a liberal indoctrination center.”

I shit you not.

I'm sure rural people watched local and national ABC, CBS and NBC news back then too.
Yes. Broadcast TV. With tinfoil on the antenna.
Now those have been effectively vilified (along with CNN, MSNBC, NPR and anyone else ever considered credible) in favor of FOX, OAN, NewsMax, Breitbart etc. etc.
No. That’s cable and we don’t have it.

AM radio. That’s what we get.

Republicans cause 95% of the problems rural people face - political, economic, cultural, infrastructural, you name it.
Republican free market deregulation caused the factories to disappear. Republican austerity caused the support systems to disappear. Republican culture war bullshit is causing their isolation from the broader human community. On and on and on, every measurable issue rural communities face are either directly caused by or made much worse by Republicans, and yet they keep voting for Republicans.

So... what's up with that?

They all think they are one bootstrap away from being self-made.
Okay, not all. Many are just not connecting that.

They go on these rants about how the liberals are taking everything, and they repeat complete and utter lies to do it. It’s kinda crazy to see. They fully buy it. They say stuff, and I reply, no that is not true, and they reply, “you try to confuse me witth your fancy numbers, but I know you’re lying!”

Then they vote to support a permit to the pipeline that just cheated on their taxes and makes the rest of us all pay more.

You also seem to believe that ALL rural voters vote Republican, and that NO urban or suburban voters do. I've shown you differently but you keep on doing what you are doing. It looks so good on you.

Well 75% of my town is republican. And of the ones that aren’t, 10% are conservative party.
And there’s me…. LOL.
But enough vote republican that it is nearly impossible to have anything else.

All this is to say that, Toni, everything you’ve said in defense of the rural folks is at least equally true of the city folks. And every bad thing you’ve deflected from the rural folks is at least equally done by them.

I live rural. I love living rural.
I love my neighbors. Well, most of them. The next door guy with the confederate flag can take a hike. And the lady who shouted at me for supporting the library. Plus the ones who put screws in my tires when I was elected. But I love the rest.


Conservative rural folks are no less harsh on city folks ( and rural democrats) than the reverse.
And I would posit that the disdain, and the ugly names and the threats of violence are much worse in the rural-to-city direction.
 
Many rural areas do not have good access to internet services. In my area, I can go just a few miles out of town and have zero phone reception until I get into a more open area without large hills blocking signal. So that’s part of the issue.

Yeah, we've looked at living north of town. Internet access was a total killer.

Another issue is exactly the attitudes expressed in this thread. People in rural areas are no different—not less intelligent or less caring or less creative or less patriotic than people in urban centers. They do have different points of view ( note: multiple points of view).

Disagree--any area that has suffered heavy emigration will be below average. The people that leave are above average, this means the ones that stay behind are below average. This doesn't mean every person who left is smart or that every person who stayed isn't, but the averages will move.
 
Many rural areas do not have good access to internet services. In my area, I can go just a few miles out of town and have zero phone reception until I get into a more open area without large hills blocking signal. So that’s part of the issue.
So, you're moving the goalposts from "internet" to "good internet" - which is interesting, because I recall using a 36kbs modem in the mid 90s and somehow I didn't turn into a racist idiot who sought to ruin my own life.

1200bps on my first system, but many systems were 300bps. I have used 110bps.

And for you youngsters on my grass--that's a lowercase b because it's bits, not bytes. And note the absence of any unit multiplier.

If you're *not* already a dim-witted bigot and you see a racist propagandistic lie on the internet, your reaction is to go "Huh, well that seems like bullshit" and then either discard the notion entirely, or do some googling to verify that you can debunk it.

This. Having a good BS detector is an important skill these days.
 
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