Classified documents and their location

[Politesse]

Maybe it's just that all of these guys are old.

This adequately summarizes many of the problems most commonly associated with the half-functioning elements of American government bureaucracy. The military had to order people to stop using floppy discs for storing critical information... three years ago.

 

[Tigers!]

Certainly the auditing is not fit for purpose.

 

[Tigers!]

Officials—especially those doing analysis of military policy, foreign affairs, and intelligence—feel a need to over-classify papers that they’ve written. Otherwise, their colleagues and superiors won’t read it.

Dr R V Jones, who was Churchill's scientific advisor, says in his autobiography that if he sent anything to a senior officer that he felt was both important and urgent, he would follow up a day later with a message saying that the information had been shared in error, and that his department requested that it be immediately returned unread.

That particular autobiography is an excellent read.

 

[bilby]

Officials—especially those doing analysis of military policy, foreign affairs, and intelligence—feel a need to over-classify papers that they’ve written. Otherwise, their colleagues and superiors won’t read it.

Dr R V Jones, who was Churchill's scientific advisor, says in his autobiography that if he sent anything to a senior officer that he felt was both important and urgent, he would follow up a day later with a message saying that the information had been shared in error, and that his department requested that it be immediately returned unread.

That particular autobiography is an excellent read.

Indeed it is. It's title is Most Secret War; At that time, the British equivalent of the US designation "TOP SECRET" was "MOST SECRET".

 

[Gun Nut]

As usual we really don't know anything more than what is being told to us. So that means we really don't know anything at all. It does seem very curious to me that in all my long life all of a sudden POTUS keeping sensitive documents has suddenly become a pressing problem. I could speculate all sorts of possiblilities:

1) The documents really aren't that sensitive or any more important than Hillary's emails, but the feds have now discovered they want more respect from their elected officials. So the dems played their card with Trump and now the Republicans are following suit with Biden.

2) Maybe Trump had super evil Spector intentions but Biden was only losing his mind.

3) Maybe both Trump and Biden were clean and honest, but there were other dirty players planting evidence with the exact purpose to get either of them in trouble.

4) Maybe (and this is most likely) the corruption in our elected officials has reached the point where the feds can no longer let this slide any longer.

I also find it extremely troubling our federal government has slowly and steadily become so paranoid about sensitive documents that it still refuses to share 60 year old documents from the Kennedy assassination. What the hell are they so afraid of not to let any of us know what they are doing?

Well, if being told things can't yield knowledge then I guess there is no purpose to you writing, me reading, or anyone responding... because all we are doing is telling each other things. We tend to call that communication, but if you want to call it "knowing nothing", then not sure where anyone can go from there with you.. Is the Earth flat in your estimation because you are unable to use your own personal senses to detect its curvature? Honestly, if you think about it, you fully trust words - as long as they are from people you have decided to trust.
So, I'll respond, in case you might happen to trust me in some way...

1) Trump was CAUGHT HIDING DOCUMENTS and REFUSING to give them back, saying they were "his" and even going so far as to say he declassified top secret nuclear weapon and energy information so that everyone can have it, just to try and get away with having it himself.
Meanwhile, Biden's team SELF-REPORTED the discovery of documents that were classified, but the sensitivity is still unknown.
Pence's team SELF_REPORTED the discovery of documents recently too.
Presumably, they did this knowing that Trump-team would go on some kind of attack... and not because they are so good and special.
2) Trump clearly and obviously had evil intentions while Biden and Pence seem to be reacting to all that hoopla by doing their own investigations on themselves and being transparent about what might have slipped between the cracks. cracks that should definitely be investigated, top to bottom.
3) Citation required for evidence of anyone "planting evidence"?
4) I don't know how far corruption goes with respect to bad data retention and protection, but the controls around data should be assessed, for sure.

Regarding refusal to declassify 60-yeaar-old documents, lets put it this way... I am sure their may be a video file sitting in your recent downloads or internet browser cache that you might not want other people to know the content of... can you explain to us why you wouldn't want to show that video to us (and answer all our questions about why you have that particular video, what it was used for at the time, or in the future, etc..)? Without showing us the video, of course.. just explain why its confidential without giving it to us.
That's why.

 

[Ford]

Biden has never been the brightest bulb n the tree. That he had documents in several places going back years is just pain sloppiness ans inattention to detail. He is doing the usual political jive.

Trump did not just want souvenirs. He was looking for things in those documents, including especially evidence of anything they had on him concerning Russia and Russiagate.

More to the point, Trump was having someone - who may or may not have had security clearance - look through the documents for him. No way he read them himself.

I posted this upthread. Note the bolded parts.

Tracker: Evidence of Trump's Knowledge and Involvement in Retaining Mar-a-Lago Documents

"We have compiled a comprehensive account of the publicly available information."

www.justsecurity.org

• Trump was warned in late 2021 by his former White House lawyer that it was unlawful to retain the documents, especially classified information;
• Trump personally sorted through the documents in late 2021;
• Trump’s personal knowledge and possession, access, and control of the documents is indicated by the quantity, content, and location of documents with classified markings (including intermingled with personal belongings) and by his admissions on Truth Social;
• Trump repeatedly stated privately that the documents were his to possess and he was not willing to deliver them to the government;
• Trump aides repeatedly tried to get him to return the documents to the government;
• Trump was repeatedly put on notice by Archives and Justice Department that his retention of the documents was unlawful and a potential threat to national security;
• Trump was apparently involved in obstructive acts of trying to conceal documents from the government after receiving a subpoena.

He may have personally sorted through them, but given his reading level I doubt he poured over them for hours alone at his desk, picking out which ones he wanted to keep/hide. He knew that he was not supposed to keep them, knew they were important, but it's not like that Saturday Night Live sketch where a doddering Reagan greets visitors, then when the doors close he suddenly becomes a genius who leads his aides in a meeting about critical geopolitical matters. That sketch was funny because Reagan really was out to lunch, and had to have things explained to him in briefings with pictures and charts.

Trump was even less of a reader. I think he knew that he had very valuable information that could be used/traded/sold at some point and knew they weren't "keepsakes," but he definitely needed to have someone explain to him WHY they were important.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

In part I can understand in that all of these guys never pack their own boxes. they have aides do that. Usually some 22 year old kid with nothing better to do. Probably can't spell SCI - much less know what it means.

But what i can't understand is why they exist in paper form at all? Who the fuck is printing these out? These would all be on a JWICS computer system - a completely isolated system so it cannot be hacked. to actually have these in your garage, means someone actually printed the document out. I almost would never do that, and if I did so I could just read the paper, I would immediately shred the document. There's just no point to having these documents in a paper form at all. Everyone knows you can't just leave them laying around the office, so why bother?

Maybe it's just that all of these guys are old. They always had paper and dealt with paper to begin with and can't stand not keeping them. But again, this is where all of their excuses fall flat. They don't have to preserve electronic documents on paper - there's nothing wrong with shredding them and they should be. They can't destroy all of the electronic copies though of course. Having these documents in physical form, just makes no sense.

In the old days electronic documents left something to be desired. I would think current systems would be good enough (assuming they are actually using current systems!) but it's probably a bunch of dinosaurs doing it.

 

[TV and credit cards]

.

In part I can understand in that all of these guys never pack their own boxes. they have aides do that. Usually some 22 year old kid with nothing better to do. Probably can't spell SCI - much less know what it means.

But what i can't understand is why they exist in paper form at all? Who the fuck is printing these out? These would all be on a JWICS computer system - a completely isolated system so it cannot be hacked. to actually have these in your garage, means someone actually printed the document out. I almost would never do that, and if I did so I could just read the paper, I would immediately shred the document. There's just no point to having these documents in a paper form at all. Everyone knows you can't just leave them laying around the office, so why bother?

Maybe it's just that all of these guys are old. They always had paper and dealt with paper to begin with and can't stand not keeping them. But again, this is where all of their excuses fall flat. They don't have to preserve electronic documents on paper - there's nothing wrong with shredding them and they should be. They can't destroy all of the electronic copies though of course. Having these documents in physical form, just makes no sense.

In the old days electronic documents left something to be desired. I would think current systems would be good enough (assuming they are actually using current systems!) but it's probably a bunch of dinosaurs doing it.

I'd venture to guess anyone making a decision of any importance would want to retain a paper trail (classified and otherwise) of how they came to said decision. Stuff it all in a folder and keep it in case something comes back to bite them in the ass.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

In part I can understand in that all of these guys never pack their own boxes. they have aides do that. Usually some 22 year old kid with nothing better to do. Probably can't spell SCI - much less know what it means.

But what i can't understand is why they exist in paper form at all? Who the fuck is printing these out? These would all be on a JWICS computer system - a completely isolated system so it cannot be hacked. to actually have these in your garage, means someone actually printed the document out. I almost would never do that, and if I did so I could just read the paper, I would immediately shred the document. There's just no point to having these documents in a paper form at all. Everyone knows you can't just leave them laying around the office, so why bother?

Maybe it's just that all of these guys are old. They always had paper and dealt with paper to begin with and can't stand not keeping them. But again, this is where all of their excuses fall flat. They don't have to preserve electronic documents on paper - there's nothing wrong with shredding them and they should be. They can't destroy all of the electronic copies though of course. Having these documents in physical form, just makes no sense.

In the old days electronic documents left something to be desired. I would think current systems would be good enough (assuming they are actually using current systems!) but it's probably a bunch of dinosaurs doing it.

Current systems? DC computers are probably still running Adobe Acrobat for DOS.

 

[Patooka]

In part I can understand in that all of these guys never pack their own boxes. they have aides do that. Usually some 22 year old kid with nothing better to do. Probably can't spell SCI - much less know what it means.

But what i can't understand is why they exist in paper form at all? Who the fuck is printing these out? These would all be on a JWICS computer system - a completely isolated system so it cannot be hacked. to actually have these in your garage, means someone actually printed the document out. I almost would never do that, and if I did so I could just read the paper, I would immediately shred the document. There's just no point to having these documents in a paper form at all. Everyone knows you can't just leave them laying around the office, so why bother?

Maybe it's just that all of these guys are old. They always had paper and dealt with paper to begin with and can't stand not keeping them. But again, this is where all of their excuses fall flat. They don't have to preserve electronic documents on paper - there's nothing wrong with shredding them and they should be. They can't destroy all of the electronic copies though of course. Having these documents in physical form, just makes no sense.

In the old days electronic documents left something to be desired. I would think current systems would be good enough (assuming they are actually using current systems!) but it's probably a bunch of dinosaurs doing it.

Current systems? DC computers are probably still running Adobe Acrobat for DOS.

An argument could be made computers running MS-DOS 6.0 would be pretty secure in this day and age.

 

[SLD]

.

In part I can understand in that all of these guys never pack their own boxes. they have aides do that. Usually some 22 year old kid with nothing better to do. Probably can't spell SCI - much less know what it means.

But what i can't understand is why they exist in paper form at all? Who the fuck is printing these out? These would all be on a JWICS computer system - a completely isolated system so it cannot be hacked. to actually have these in your garage, means someone actually printed the document out. I almost would never do that, and if I did so I could just read the paper, I would immediately shred the document. There's just no point to having these documents in a paper form at all. Everyone knows you can't just leave them laying around the office, so why bother?

Maybe it's just that all of these guys are old. They always had paper and dealt with paper to begin with and can't stand not keeping them. But again, this is where all of their excuses fall flat. They don't have to preserve electronic documents on paper - there's nothing wrong with shredding them and they should be. They can't destroy all of the electronic copies though of course. Having these documents in physical form, just makes no sense.

In the old days electronic documents left something to be desired. I would think current systems would be good enough (assuming they are actually using current systems!) but it's probably a bunch of dinosaurs doing it.

I'd venture to guess anyone making a decision of any importance would want to retain a paper trail (classified and otherwise) of how they came to said decision. Stuff it all in a folder and keep it in case something comes back to bite them in the ass.

No. The paper trail can be computer. No need to print anything.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

.

In part I can understand in that all of these guys never pack their own boxes. they have aides do that. Usually some 22 year old kid with nothing better to do. Probably can't spell SCI - much less know what it means.

But what i can't understand is why they exist in paper form at all? Who the fuck is printing these out? These would all be on a JWICS computer system - a completely isolated system so it cannot be hacked. to actually have these in your garage, means someone actually printed the document out. I almost would never do that, and if I did so I could just read the paper, I would immediately shred the document. There's just no point to having these documents in a paper form at all. Everyone knows you can't just leave them laying around the office, so why bother?

Maybe it's just that all of these guys are old. They always had paper and dealt with paper to begin with and can't stand not keeping them. But again, this is where all of their excuses fall flat. They don't have to preserve electronic documents on paper - there's nothing wrong with shredding them and they should be. They can't destroy all of the electronic copies though of course. Having these documents in physical form, just makes no sense.

In the old days electronic documents left something to be desired. I would think current systems would be good enough (assuming they are actually using current systems!) but it's probably a bunch of dinosaurs doing it.

I'd venture to guess anyone making a decision of any importance would want to retain a paper trail (classified and otherwise) of how they came to said decision. Stuff it all in a folder and keep it in case something comes back to bite them in the ass.

No. The paper trail can be computer. No need to print anything.

It's much easier for the electronic trail to be altered. Observe Hunter Biden's laptop.

 

[TV and credit cards]

.

In part I can understand in that all of these guys never pack their own boxes. they have aides do that. Usually some 22 year old kid with nothing better to do. Probably can't spell SCI - much less know what it means.

But what i can't understand is why they exist in paper form at all? Who the fuck is printing these out? These would all be on a JWICS computer system - a completely isolated system so it cannot be hacked. to actually have these in your garage, means someone actually printed the document out. I almost would never do that, and if I did so I could just read the paper, I would immediately shred the document. There's just no point to having these documents in a paper form at all. Everyone knows you can't just leave them laying around the office, so why bother?

Maybe it's just that all of these guys are old. They always had paper and dealt with paper to begin with and can't stand not keeping them. But again, this is where all of their excuses fall flat. They don't have to preserve electronic documents on paper - there's nothing wrong with shredding them and they should be. They can't destroy all of the electronic copies though of course. Having these documents in physical form, just makes no sense.

In the old days electronic documents left something to be desired. I would think current systems would be good enough (assuming they are actually using current systems!) but it's probably a bunch of dinosaurs doing it.

I'd venture to guess anyone making a decision of any importance would want to retain a paper trail (classified and otherwise) of how they came to said decision. Stuff it all in a folder and keep it in case something comes back to bite them in the ass.

No. The paper trail can be computer. No need to print anything.

It's much easier for the electronic trail to be altered. Observe Hunter Biden's laptop.

Yes. And it comes down to who's computer and who maintains it. Sure, it doesn't have to be an actual paper trail, it could be in electronic format but the individual wants to maintain possession, not have it exist only on a network they do not control. Again, just to cover their own ass.

There's been plenty of times when my boss has asked me to do something and I would ask them to follow it up with an email. I would then forward it from my .mil or .gov email to my personal email just in case something went wrong, my boss couldn't stand there and say, "I never told him to do that".

 

[barbos]

3) Maybe both Trump and Biden were clean and honest, but there were other dirty players planting evidence with the exact purpose to get either of them in trouble.

I bet 2 rubles on that.

 

[ZiprHead]

3) Maybe both Trump and Biden were clean and honest, but there were other dirty players planting evidence with the exact purpose to get either of them in trouble.

I bet 2 rubles on that.

Trump sorted the documents himself in 2021.

 

[Rhea]

Jimmy Carter tearfully confesses hat he has classified documents in his heart.

 

[thebeave]

Jimmy Carter tearfully confesses hat he has classified documents in his heart.

How is there any room left with all that lust taking up space?

 

[Copernicus]

Jimmy Carter tearfully confesses hat he has classified documents in his heart.

How is there any room left with all that lust taking up space?

Carter is known to have a big heart.

 

[bilby]

Jimmy Carter tearfully confesses hat he has classified documents in his heart.

How is there any room left with all that lust taking up space?

Carter is known to have a big heart.

Idiopathic cardiomegaly is a serious condition that can rapidly lead to death. He should have that looked at by a specialist as a matter of urgency.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Jimmy Carter tearfully confesses hat he has classified documents in his heart.

How is there any room left with all that lust taking up space?

Carter is known to have a big heart.

Idiopathic cardiomegaly is a serious condition that can rapidly lead to death. He should have that looked at by a specialist as a matter of urgency.

If it hasn't killed him yet... Must be all the lust protecting his health.