Cleveland Judge Finds Probable Cause to Charge Officers in Tamir Rice Death

[RavenSky]

A judge in Cleveland ruled Thursday that probable cause existed to charge two Cleveland police officers in the death of a 12-year-old boy, Tamir Rice, but the judge also said he did not have the power to order arrests without a complaint being filed by a prosecutor.

This week, a group of activists and community leaders asked the court to have the officers arrested under an Ohio law that allows “a private citizen having knowledge of the facts” to start the process by filing an affidavit with a court. They argued that the widely seen video of an officer killing Tamir had given nearly everyone “knowledge of the facts.”

The Ohio law, in effect in various forms since 1960, is unusual and rarely invoked, and lawyers have disagreed about what might be achieved by using it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/12/u...charge-officers-in-tamir-rice-death.html?_r=0

Meanwhile the prosecutor maintains that the case will be brought before a Grand Jury.

So what, if anything, do you think was accomplished by the Judge's ruling?

 

[Derec]

While police did make mistakes in this case, I do not think murder charges have any merit whatsoever.
- he waved a realistic looking gun around at a public park. He removed the orange tip that would have indicated that it was a toy gun - that was very stupid.
- he was significantly bigger than your average 12 year old boy and thus looked more like an older teenager or a young adult waving an actual gun rather than a child at play.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

While police did make mistakes in this case, I do not think murder charges have any merit whatsoever.
- he waved a realistic looking gun around at a public park. He removed the orange tip that would have indicated that it was a toy gun - that was very stupid.
- he was significantly bigger than your average 12 year old boy and thus looked more like an older teenager or a young adult waving an actual gun rather than a child at play.
- he was no saint/angel probably listened to hip-hop and one took a nickle out of the collection plate at church despite what liberals say

FIFY

 

[Toni]

While police did make mistakes in this case, I do not think murder charges have any merit whatsoever.
- he waved a realistic looking gun around at a public park. He removed the orange tip that would have indicated that it was a toy gun - that was very stupid.
- he was significantly bigger than your average 12 year old boy and thus looked more like an older teenager or a young adult waving an actual gun rather than a child at play.

Capitol offenses all plus he was black so no need for judge or jury or even formal charges to be filed against him. He was black and someone reported a child waving a toy gun around which is obviously enough for any rational cop to pull up in a squad car and execute him.

 

[Derec]

FIFY

Since you have nothing to say about what I actually wrote you instead falsify my quote. Nice.

 

[Derec]

Capitol offenses all

Is that when congressmen are involved in crimes?

plus he was black so no need for judge or jury or even formal charges to be filed against him.

And just like in all these cases there is unjustifiable, emotional outrage and conflating of very distinct issues. No, neither of my points is a capital offense. No, him being black does not mean there is "no need for judge or jury or even formal charges to be filed against him".
What it does is provide some context to what the police officers did. They got a call about somebody waving a gun. Apparently the caller said something about gun might be fake and the guy might be a minor but that wasn't relayed to the officers responding. When they arrived at the scene they saw a person who looked like an older teen or even a young adult (autopsy report has Rice at 5'7" and weighing 195 lbs, about George Zimmerman's size) brandishing a realistic looking gun (orange tip was removed, presumably by Rice himself). While police violated procedures in how they responded I do not see how the shooting amounts to a murder. Do you have any actual reasons other than emotional appeals and accusations of racism?

He was black and someone reported a child waving a toy gun around which is obviously enough for any rational cop to pull up in a squad car and execute him.

He wasn't executed.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

FIFY

Since you have nothing to say about what I actually wrote you instead falsify my quote. Nice.

Okay,

The police shot him while the gun was in his belt. They had no way of knowing at that point in time if there was an orange tip or not because the gun was never drawn on them. They shot him upon arrival without questioning him.

Civil rights under the constitution makes no differentiation between a child-looking child and an adult-looking child.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

While police violated procedures in how they responded I do not see how the shooting amounts to a murder.m?

They shot him immediately upon arrival.

 

[Trausti]

Don't know that the municipal judge could order the prosecutor to file charges.

(2) A judge of a municipal court does not have the authority to dismiss a criminal complaint, charge, information, or indictment solely at the request of the complaining witness and over the objection of the prosecuting attorney, village solicitor, city director of law, or other chief legal officer who is responsible for the prosecution of the case.

This looks to be just a publicity stunt.

 

[KeepTalking]

Don't know that the municipal judge could order the prosecutor to file charges.

(2) A judge of a municipal court does not have the authority to dismiss a criminal complaint, charge, information, or indictment solely at the request of the complaining witness and over the objection of the prosecuting attorney, village solicitor, city director of law, or other chief legal officer who is responsible for the prosecution of the case.

This looks to be just a publicity stunt.

Your quote is about dismissing charges, not filing them. Apparently, in Ohio, a judge can recommend charges in this fashion, though the judges recommendation is non-binding on the prosecutor. It does, however, make the DA look like a douche if they do not file charges.

 

[Toni]

Is that when congressmen are involved in crimes?

plus he was black so no need for judge or jury or even formal charges to be filed against him.

And just like in all these cases there is unjustifiable, emotional outrage and conflating of very distinct issues. No, neither of my points is a capital offense. No, him being black does not mean there is "no need for judge or jury or even formal charges to be filed against him".
What it does is provide some context to what the police officers did. They got a call about somebody waving a gun. Apparently the caller said something about gun might be fake and the guy might be a minor but that wasn't relayed to the officers responding. When they arrived at the scene they saw a person who looked like an older teen or even a young adult (autopsy report has Rice at 5'7" and weighing 195 lbs, about George Zimmerman's size) brandishing a realistic looking gun (orange tip was removed, presumably by Rice himself). While police violated procedures in how they responded I do not see how the shooting amounts to a murder. Do you have any actual reasons other than emotional appeals and accusations of racism?

He was black and someone reported a child waving a toy gun around which is obviously enough for any rational cop to pull up in a squad car and execute him.

He wasn't executed.

Forgive me for posting while on my phone o ignoble one!

I was unaware that *might* constituted a clear and present danger, warranting immediate execution by a police officer who barely exited the vehicle before gunning down an unarmed child.

You seemed to take such exception to the use of the word 'murder,' but since you now seem to prefer that, I will oblige you and hopefully so will a grand jury: the police officer murdered a child.

While it is refreshing to see you claim that the fact that Tamir Rice was black was not relevant. It would be more believable if the unarmed victims in such police shootings were not so often black. Or if you were not so quick to justify such shootings of unarmed victims, many of whom have committed NO criminal offense and who were of no danger to anyone.

 

[Derec]

Forgive me for posting while on my phone o ignoble one!

Why should I forgive you when you call me ignoble?

I was unaware that *might* constituted a clear and present danger, warranting immediate execution by a police officer who barely exited the vehicle before gunning down an unarmed child.

Actually the "mights" were reasons why he might not have been a danger. In addition to them being equivocal, they were not relayed to the police officers anyway.
As far as him being "unarmed", he certainly wasn't. Not from the perspective of the officers who did not have the benefit of hindsight. He was armed with a realistic looking pellet gun with orange tip removed.

As far as him being a "child", he was but again, the officers had no way of knowing that. He was 5'7" and 195 lbs which is more like an older teen or even an adult (George Zimmerman is about that size) than a 12 year old kid. Police officer should be judged on information they had at the time, not on hindsight.

You seemed to take such exception to the use of the word 'murder,' but since you now seem to prefer that, I will oblige you and hopefully so will a grand jury: the police officer murdered a child.

I disagree.

While it is refreshing to see you claim that the fact that Tamir Rice was black was not relevant. It would be more believable if the unarmed victims in such police shootings were not so often black.

There was also a case in Georgia of a white kid being killed by a female police officer at his doorstep because he was holding a Wii remote (much less like a gun than a realistic looking replica). No charges for the officer, no protests/riots and no widespread media coverage, because it does not fit into the politically correct "black lives matter" media narrative.

Or if you were not so quick to justify such shootings of unarmed victims, many of whom have committed NO criminal offense and who were of no danger to anyone.

I am not justifying this. I said police made mistakes but I do not think it was murder. This is similar to Freddy Grey case where some police officer did act wrongfully, but I there too think it's not a case of murder.
And it is dissimilar to Michael Brown and Tony "not Baldrick" Robinson cases, where I do think the shootings were justified and the prosecutors agreed.
As far as "no criminal offense" I do think brandishing a gun, even a realistic looking pellet gun, in public is illegal.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Don't know that the municipal judge could order the prosecutor to file charges.

(2) A judge of a municipal court does not have the authority to dismiss a criminal complaint, charge, information, or indictment solely at the request of the complaining witness and over the objection of the prosecuting attorney, village solicitor, city director of law, or other chief legal officer who is responsible for the prosecution of the case.

This looks to be just a publicity stunt.

Not a publicity stunt per se. There is a law that allows for citizens to push forward for an arrest warrant. The trouble in this case is that the case is already under investigation.

The biggest problem in Cleveland was that they shot a 12 year old who had something that appeared to be a gun. And left it at that, for the 12 year old to die without getting any treatment. He may have died anyway, but the two officers showed reckless indifference.

 

[RavenSky]

While police did make mistakes in this case, I do not think murder charges have any merit whatsoever.
- he waved a realistic looking gun around at a public park. He removed the orange tip that would have indicated that it was a toy gun - that was very stupid.
- he was significantly bigger than your average 12 year old boy and thus looked more like an older teenager or a young adult waving an actual gun rather than a child at play.

Capitol offenses all plus he was black so no need for judge or jury or even formal charges to be filed against him. He was black and someone reported a child waving a toy gun around which is obviously enough for any rational cop to pull up in a squad car and execute him.

One of the points the judge made is that the cop shot (and killed) Tamir Rice even before the squad car stopped rolling. There was absolutely no attempt to assess the situation, much less deescalate the situation (not that it even needed deescalating)

It will be interesting to see what a Grand Jury does now.

 

[RavenSky]

Police officer should be judged on information they had at the time, not on hindsight.

No, they should be judged on their utter failure to properly assess the situation before killing someone.

As far as "no criminal offense" I do think brandishing a gun, even a realistic looking pellet gun, in public is illegal.

So you are against "open carry"?

 

[Bronzeage]

Don't know that the municipal judge could order the prosecutor to file charges.



This looks to be just a publicity stunt.

Not a publicity stunt per se. There is a law that allows for citizens to push forward for an arrest warrant. The trouble in this case is that the case is already under investigation.

The biggest problem in Cleveland was that they shot a 12 year old who had something that appeared to be a gun. And left it at that, for the 12 year old to die without getting any treatment. He may have died anyway, but the two officers showed reckless indifference.

The only judge who might have authority in this case would be one whose jurisdiction could hold the trial. A murder charge or any other offense which results in a death, would be tried in a State Court, not a city court.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

No, they should be judged on their utter failure to properly assess the situation before killing someone.

As far as "no criminal offense" I do think brandishing a gun, even a realistic looking pellet gun, in public is illegal.

So you are against "open carry"?

Ohio allows concealed carry, not open carry.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

While police did make mistakes in this case, I do not think murder charges have any merit whatsoever.
- he waved a realistic looking gun around at a public park. He removed the orange tip that would have indicated that it was a toy gun - that was very stupid.
- he was significantly bigger than your average 12 year old boy and thus looked more like an older teenager or a young adult waving an actual gun rather than a child at play.

You know what ...

Nevermind. Just nevermind.

 

[Derec]

No, they should be judged on their utter failure to properly assess the situation before killing someone.

Yeah, and that wasn't murder. It was likely criminally negligent, but not murder.

So you are against "open carry"?

In principle? Yes. Don't confuse me with a gun nut!
But even "open carry" does not allow people to brandish a gun and point it in random directions.

 

[Derec]

Nevermind. Just nevermind.

I don't know what Nirvana has to do with anything but you obviously are incapable of even trying to refute my points because otherwise you'd at least have tried.
In any case, here's the album, cover.