• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

Comic book movie news & discussion

Wonder Woman really doesn't have as much of a recognizable rogue's gallery as The Flash or Batman. Once they've used up Ares and Cheetah that's pretty much it for any villain casual viewers might have even a passing knowledge of so I do agree with the idea of taking villains from other DC stories and adapting them for WW movies.

Not many knew of the Guardians of the Galaxy before their movies. Ant man wasn't well known. Even Iron Man wasn't as well known as Hulk or Spiderman. Having relatively unknown characters can be a strength if done well.

Additionally, having the villains be less recognizable means that you have a wider variety of story telling options available to you and you can pick or create some marginal villain to play into that story. When you do a Superman movie, you pretty much need to have Lex Luthor or Zod show up until you've managed to put together a few sequels and can move on. When you do Batman, the Joker pretty much needs to show up fairly soon.

When the heroes aren't so associated with particular villains, however, you can just grab whatever you want and insert it into the story, like they did with GotG. The fans aren't expecting or clamouring for their iconic heroes to match up against their iconic villains, so that gives you more options as a script writer.
 
Wonder Woman really doesn't have as much of a recognizable rogue's gallery as The Flash or Batman. Once they've used up Ares and Cheetah that's pretty much it for any villain casual viewers might have even a passing knowledge of so I do agree with the idea of taking villains from other DC stories and adapting them for WW movies.

Not many knew of the Guardians of the Galaxy before their movies. Ant man wasn't well known. Even Iron Man wasn't as well known as Hulk or Spiderman. Having relatively unknown characters can be a strength if done well.

Additionally, having the villains be less recognizable means that you have a wider variety of story telling options available to you and you can pick or create some marginal villain to play into that story. When you do a Superman movie, you pretty much need to have Lex Luthor or Zod show up until you've managed to put together a few sequels and can move on. When you do Batman, the Joker pretty much needs to show up fairly soon.

When the heroes aren't so associated with particular villains, however, you can just grab whatever you want and insert it into the story, like they did with GotG. The fans aren't expecting or clamouring for their iconic heroes to match up against their iconic villains, so that gives you more options as a script writer.

Good point.

I always found it odd that Wonder Woman has such a weak rogue's gallery despite being a major DC character, since DC is kinda known for colorful and memorable rogues' galleries.
 
Ya, she's been around for over 50 years, so it stands to reason that she's fought someone in that time.

Really couldn't tell you much about who those someones are, though. I suppose Ares and that cat lady they cast in the sequel, who's apparently not a rip off of that other cat lady from Batman but actually an evil Thundercat or something ... which actually sounds kind of cool.
 
Ya, she's been around for over 50 years, so it stands to reason that she's fought someone in that time.

Really couldn't tell you much about who those someones are, though. I suppose Ares and that cat lady they cast in the sequel, who's apparently not a rip off of that other cat lady from Batman but actually an evil Thundercat or something ... which actually sounds kind of cool.

No, Cheetah is different. More than likely, they'll use a more recent incarnation in which her powers come from a terrible curse that she blames Wonder Woman for.
 
So I just started season 5 of Agents of Shield. It's off to a slower start than last season, but I like it so far. I can't wait to see how they do the tie in to Infinity War, which should happen near the end of the season.
 
So I just started season 5 of Agents of Shield. It's off to a slower start than last season, but I like it so far. I can't wait to see how they do the tie in to Infinity War, which should happen near the end of the season.

Take it for what it's worth, but in my opinion season 5 would have been better off without an Infinity War tie-in. The way they tie it in is very awkward, and it is pretty apparent that that the AoS show runners had very little advance knowledge of what would happen in Infinity War. I don't really want to spoil things for you, so I will leave it at that for now.
 
So I just started season 5 of Agents of Shield. It's off to a slower start than last season, but I like it so far. I can't wait to see how they do the tie in to Infinity War, which should happen near the end of the season.

Don't get your hopes up.
 
How many characters did Stan Lee actually create? I always got a feeling that Lee got more credit than he deserved, but that is just a gut hunch based on statements he has made in whatever thing I saw him talking in.
 
How many characters did Stan Lee actually create? I always got a feeling that Lee got more credit than he deserved, but that is just a gut hunch based on statements he has made in whatever thing I saw him talking in.

Hard to put a number on because it seems that character creation was a collaborative effort, and they didn't always write down who contributed what to which character.

It's generally agreed that the artists got less credit than they should have, but we tend to give more credit to the guy in charge and he was editor in chief from a young age. Disney also worked with a large number of talented people, but folks tend to give Disney credit for things that his various artist employees probably deserve credit for.

Given the things he's always said, it seems that a lot of the focus on diversity came from him, the need for flawed characters came from him, and some of the peculiar humor of the Marvel universe came from him.

But how much of Black Panther should be credited to Stan Lee and how much to Jack Kirby?
 
The most popular comic book characters were seldom created by a single person. Superman was created by Siegel and Shuster, Siegel having written the original short story, and Shuster later providing the illustrations for what was a very different pulp fiction character. When they moved to comics, they collaborated on reimagining the character for that medium. Bob Kane was long thought to be the singular creator of Batman, and the original idea was certainly his, but if Bill Finger had not collaborated with him after seeing the first drawings, Batman would be a very different character, and may never have become as popular as he is now.

With Stan Lee it was a very similar situation. He was a writer and an editor, not an artist, and we often look to the original artist as the creator, but it is seldom that simple. One great example of this is Spider-Man. Stan Lee had an idea for teen aged superhero named Spider-Man, and went to Jack Kirby with the idea, only to find out that Jack Kirby had already written a Spiderman character, who they eventually called Silver Spider, over a decade previously with Joe Simon, but the comic they collaborated on was never published. Kirby and Simon's character had a different back story, however, and after having Kirby work up a few new pages, Lee did not feel that it fit his character idea, so he turned to Steve Ditko, who drew the iconic hero we know. But it didn't end there, Ditko's roommate apparently had some small involvement in helping him flesh out the character, and before the character was ever published, Lee went back to Kirby to draw the cover for Spider-Man's first issue. Kirby apparently never really liked Stan Lee, and they famously fell out later with Kirby leaving Marvel and eventually claimed sole credit for Spider-Man. Joe Simon mostly backed Kirby, but also wanted to claim partial credit for the character. Kirby was like that, he often tried to claim sole credit for the characters he drew, but Kirby was just an artist, without a writer none of those characters would have become what they are today.

After Kirby left Marvel, and Lee became an editor, then eventually publisher, Lee became much less involved in writing. His style of writing/editing became known as the "Marvel Method". Lee would write a fairly detailed outline, and hand it off to the writers and artists to flesh it out. He still gets some credit for many of the characters that Marvel created during that time, even though his contribution might better be characterized as providing a vague idea for the character or, as was often the case, shamelessly ripping the character off from DC.
 
Anyone else kind of looking forward to this Aquaman movie? The trailers make it seem like it will be pretty cool.

Of course, the Suicide Squad trailers also made it look like that would be an awesome movie, so it's hard to tell. I enjoy good comic book movies, though, so I hope my expectations are actually met by this one.
 
Anyone else kind of looking forward to this Aquaman movie? The trailers make it seem like it will be pretty cool.

Of course, the Suicide Squad trailers also made it look like that would be an awesome movie, so it's hard to tell. I enjoy good comic book movies, though, so I hope my expectations are actually met by this one.

"Kind of looking forward to it" sums it up pretty well. I have never really been an Aquaman fan, and have diminished expectations given the recent quality of DCEU movies, but the trailers look good, and all of the females in my household absolutely adore Jason Mamoa, so they may have infected me a bit with their excitement.
 
Anyone else kind of looking forward to this Aquaman movie? The trailers make it seem like it will be pretty cool.
I wasn't a big fan of his portrayal of Drax in Justice League. He seemed incapable of playing the character that the writers poorly wrote for. Probably why DC movies should just stick with DC characters.
 
Anyone else kind of looking forward to this Aquaman movie? The trailers make it seem like it will be pretty cool.

Of course, the Suicide Squad trailers also made it look like that would be an awesome movie, so it's hard to tell. I enjoy good comic book movies, though, so I hope my expectations are actually met by this one.

"Kind of looking forward to it" sums it up pretty well. I have never really been an Aquaman fan, and have diminished expectations given the recent quality of DCEU movies, but the trailers look good, and all of the females in my household absolutely adore Jason Mamoa, so they may have infected me a bit with their excitement.

I think that the diminished expectations and not many people really being Aquaman fans are things which will work in its favour. For the other movies, my enjoyment was dampened by thinking "I really don't like this version of Batman" and "Well, they've really fucked up Superman here". If they mess up the character of Aquaman in this movie, I really wouldn't know it because my only knowledge of him is vague recollections of the lame, goofy guy they had in the Superfriends cartoon back in the 70s, so whatever they do here will be how I view Aquaman.

Also, with my not expecting much, if I leave the theater with the impression "I do not feel that I just waster two hours of my life and I was mildly entertained", that's a success. It's like how Trump is lauded as being surprisingly Presidential if he manages to make it through a speech without falling down. It doesn't take much to garner a positive review when there are no high hopes to get dashed.
 
Anyone else kind of looking forward to this Aquaman movie? The trailers make it seem like it will be pretty cool.

Of course, the Suicide Squad trailers also made it look like that would be an awesome movie, so it's hard to tell. I enjoy good comic book movies, though, so I hope my expectations are actually met by this one.

Lots to unpack.

For me, the main problem with the DCEU is that prior to Wonder Woman, they kept trying to make everything have the same dark 'n gritty tone as the Nolan Batman movies, which I think was a huge mistake. Part of what makes the MCU so appealing is that each movie has a different tone, often different themes, and borrows from different genres.

The DC universe has such incredible depth and breadth that it deserves similar treatment. Each property should be distinct, have its own tone, map to different subgenres, appeal to slightly different people, etc.

But no, they had to make everything as much like fucking Nolan's Batman as fucking possible. Ugh.

Anyway, Walter Hamada is supposed to be the hot new executive at WB who is going to be the DCEU answer to Kevin Feige. He's producing DC comic book movies and nothing else. While it's way too early to say what effect Hamada will have on the DCEU, both the Shazam trailer and the Aquaman trailer suggests to me that Hamada understands that each property needs its own tone.

From the trailer, the tone of Shazam and Aquaman seem not only distinct from all the other DCEU movies, but also from each other, and I think that's a promising sign. Shazam seems like a goofy kids' empowerment fantasy, and that's appropriate. The Aquaman trailer feels like someone put Star Wars and Indiana Jones in a blender, then poured the result into the ocean, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. Not only do they have to worry about being distinct from the other DCEU properties, but they also have to avoid comparisons to Black Panther given that they are both monarchs in a society that allows the throne to be dueled over by people of the appropriate lineage.

[YOUTUBE]WDkg3h8PCVU[/YOUTUBE]

So yeah, I am really looking forward to Aquaman, and I desperately hope it does well.

  • I'd love to see the DCEU get saved. I'm a Marvel fan. That doesn't mean I like Marvel and dislike DC, it means I like Marvel better. I still read my share of DC comic books as a kid, it still has nostalgic value for me, and hey, competition is good for the consumer, right?
  • I really like the actor playing Aquaman even if his acting chops aren't exactly top notch. He's likable, dammit. Plus the decision to cast a half Polynesian was pure genius.
  • It would be nice to see an Asian-American producer succeed in Hollywood. For all that both Marvel and DC have been famous for pushing diversity issues sooner than other parts of popular media, the movie versions of Marvel and WB-DC have been kind of lacking in Asian faces on either side of the camera (FOX did better in that department with their X-Men stuff).
 
Anyone else kind of looking forward to this Aquaman movie? The trailers make it seem like it will be pretty cool.
I wasn't a big fan of his portrayal of Drax in Justice League. He seemed incapable of playing the character that the writers poorly wrote for. Probably why DC movies should just stick with DC characters.

Nah. The most DC character in the MCU is Janet van Dyne (older Wasp). She's just too idealized and not flawed enough to feel like a Marvel hero.

Runner up: the MCU version of Hawkeye. I'm fine with all the changes they made to Hawkeye and his backstory, but making him less of an asshole was unforgivable.
 
Back
Top Bottom