"Coronavirus and the US" or "We are all going to die!!!!"

[Loren Pechtel]

White House: Tennessee mask mandate ‘must be implemented’

by: JONATHAN MATTISE, Associated Press, Posted: Oct 16, 2020

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) — The White House quietly told Tennessee early this week that “a statewide mask mandate must be implemented” to curb its growing spread of COVID-19, strong instructions that the White House and governor did not discuss publicly before the report emerged in a records request.

I really want to know the backstory on this. Since when does the WH advocate for masks???

 

[Treedbear]

White House: Tennessee mask mandate ‘must be implemented’

by: JONATHAN MATTISE, Associated Press, Posted: Oct 16, 2020

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) — The White House quietly told Tennessee early this week that “a statewide mask mandate must be implemented” to curb its growing spread of COVID-19, strong instructions that the White House and governor did not discuss publicly before the report emerged in a records request.

I really want to know the backstory on this. Since when does the WH advocate for masks???

I haven't looked any further into the report. I tend to believe it since there are undercurrents within what is referred to as the Trump administration. Trump himself might have nothing to do with it, and heads may be about to roll. I'm hoping he himself is starting to get worried about major outbreaks that are now going on within his base and is trying to make moves that still allow him to deny whatever he was saying yesterday.

 

[Elixir]

I really want to know the backstory on this. Since when does the WH advocate for masks???

I haven't looked any further into the report. I tend to believe it since there are undercurrents within what is referred to as the Trump administration. Trump himself might have nothing to do with it, and heads may be about to roll. I'm hoping he himself is starting to get worried about major outbreaks that are now going on within his base and is trying to make moves that still allow him to deny whatever he was saying yesterday.

It would be unsurprising if some of Trump's most loyal administrators were to undertake something like that. Mitigating illness and death among his lemmings might not seem like a good idea to Trump but others might think it's necessary for Trump's own sake.

 

[skepticalbip]

The political division has definitely gotten out of hand when disease becomes a political issue.

Politics has even driven some democrats to become borderline anti-vaxers. Both Biden and Harris have questioned whether to take a coronovirus vaccine when released because it would have been developed while Trump was in office. Now Cuomo has joined....

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/521672-cuomo-public-should-be-very-skeptical-about-covid-19-vaccine

Cuomo: Public should be 'very skeptical' about COVID-19 vaccine

 

[bilby]

The political division has definitely gotten out of hand when disease becomes a political issue.

Politics has even driven some democrats to become borderline anti-vaxers. Both Biden and Harris have questioned whether to take a coronovirus vaccine when released because it would have been developed while Trump was in office. Now Cuomo has joined....

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/521672-cuomo-public-should-be-very-skeptical-about-covid-19-vaccine

Cuomo: Public should be 'very skeptical' about COVID-19 vaccine

There's a big difference between 'because it was developed while Trump was in office', and 'because it was rushed through without adequate testing in order to be ready in time to support Trump's reelection campaign'.

That you claim the former, when the latter is the case, while decrying the politicising of the issue, is hugely ironic.

 

[skepticalbip]

The political division has definitely gotten out of hand when disease becomes a political issue.

Politics has even driven some democrats to become borderline anti-vaxers. Both Biden and Harris have questioned whether to take a coronovirus vaccine when released because it would have been developed while Trump was in office. Now Cuomo has joined....

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/521672-cuomo-public-should-be-very-skeptical-about-covid-19-vaccine

Cuomo: Public should be 'very skeptical' about COVID-19 vaccine

There's a big difference between 'because it was developed while Trump was in office', and 'because it was rushed through without adequate testing in order to be ready in time to support Trump's reelection campaign'.

That you claim the former, when the latter is the case, while decrying the politicising of the issue, is hugely ironic.

The development and testing is the same as ever. The difference is that, previously, production lines to make the vaccines were not set up until after FDA approval. Companies did not want to invest in production in case there was no approval. The speed up is that the drug companies are setting up production in parallel with testing because the government is covering the cost. The distribution and logistics has also already been set up by the government. So when testing is finished, the vaccine is shown to be effective and safe, and there is FDA approval they can pretty much immediately begin shipment of the vaccine rather than the normal year or so after approval.

 

[Copernicus]

The political division has definitely gotten out of hand when disease becomes a political issue.

Politics has even driven some democrats to become borderline anti-vaxers. Both Biden and Harris have questioned whether to take a coronovirus vaccine when released because it would have been developed while Trump was in office. Now Cuomo has joined....

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/521672-cuomo-public-should-be-very-skeptical-about-covid-19-vaccine

Cuomo: Public should be 'very skeptical' about COVID-19 vaccine

I agree that a COVID vaccine should not be refused on political grounds alone, but you have really distorted the positions that prominent Democrats have taken. Anti-vaxxers refuse to take vaccines because they don't trust the advice of medical professionals. Biden, Harris, Cuomo and others are not claiming that they don't trust vaccines developed while Trump is in office, nor are they saying that they don't trust what medical professionals advise. They have no trouble with vaccines per se. What they are complaining about is the lack of credibility that the Trump administration has in recommending a vaccine. In fact, Biden explicitly said that he would take a vaccine, if Dr. Fauci recommended it, but he wouldn't if Donald Trump recommended it. Cuomo was complaining about the loss of credibility with agencies like the CDC and FDA, which have been under attack by Trump and his political appointees. Even Dr. Fauci admitted that he has been prevented from speaking to the public, despite the fact that he works for the public as an expert on vaccines. How could you possibly compare Democrats to anti-vaxxers when they are complaining about the very concern you raise--the politicization that has undermined the trust that the public ought to have in its health agencies?

 

[skepticalbip]

The political division has definitely gotten out of hand when disease becomes a political issue.

Politics has even driven some democrats to become borderline anti-vaxers. Both Biden and Harris have questioned whether to take a coronovirus vaccine when released because it would have been developed while Trump was in office. Now Cuomo has joined....

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/521672-cuomo-public-should-be-very-skeptical-about-covid-19-vaccine

Cuomo: Public should be 'very skeptical' about COVID-19 vaccine

Biden, Harris, Cuomo and others are not claiming that they don't trust vaccines developed while Trump is in office, nor are they saying that they don't trust what medical professionals advise.

That is exactly what they are saying. The medical professionals in the CDC and FDA that approve drug development are the same professionals who have been doing their jobs for quite a while. The presidency does not have the power to dictate their ethics or professionalism. They claim to not trust the professionals in the FDA and the outcome of the vaccine approval process because the wrong party is in office. - - The reason some governors want to independently check the vaccine to see if FDA's approval was endangering the public. Any medical professional whose medical decisions are swayed by political pressure should be immediately fired and their license to practice in their field revoked.

What they are doing is attempting to make the public lose faith in our public health system for purely partisan political reasons. Unfortunately, it does seem to be working to some extent. From personal experience, I know of a few people who now seriously question if they will take the vaccine when it is finally released... Before the political attacks questioning the vaccine, they were anxious for the approval to come soon.

ETA:
They have been trying to walk back their attacks over the last couple weeks. Apparently someone explained to them how stupid and dangerous the politically motivated attacks were. Unfortunately, the seed has been planted and some people are now suspicious of the FDA and their approval process.

 

[Copernicus]

Biden, Harris, Cuomo and others are not claiming that they don't trust vaccines developed while Trump is in office, nor are they saying that they don't trust what medical professionals advise.

That is exactly what they are saying. The medical professionals in the CDC and FDA that approve drug development are the same professionals who have been doing their jobs for quite a while. The presidency does not have the power to dictate their ethics or professionalism. They claim to not trust the professionals in the FDA and the outcome of the vaccine approval process because the wrong party is in office. - - The reason some governors want to independently check the vaccine to see if FDA's approval was endangering the public. Any medical professional whose medical decisions are swayed by political pressure should be immediately fired and their license to practice in their field revoked.

What they are doing is attempting to make the public lose faith in our public health system for purely partisan political reasons. Unfortunately, it does seem to be working to some extent. From personal experience, I know of a few people who now seriously question if they will take the vaccine when it is finally released... Before the political attacks questioning the vaccine, they were anxious for the approval to come soon.

ETA:
They have been trying to walk back their attacks over the last couple weeks. Apparently someone explained to them how stupid and dangerous the politically motivated attacks were. Unfortunately, the seed has been planted and some people are now suspicious of the FDA and their approval process.

What you are saying totally ignores the reality of what has happened at the FDA and CDC, which are currently being investigated by the GAO for politicization by administration, not Democratic politicians. See, for example:

Inside the Fall of the CDC

Government agency will investigate Trump administration political influence over FDA, CDC

COVID-19 OVERSIGHT NEWS: POLITICIZATION AT THE FDA AND CDC, AND THE OVERSIGHT COMMISSION’S DELAYED SEPTEMBER REPORT

When medical professionals, Democrats, and even many Republicans complain about how the Trump administration has damaged the credibility of those organizations, you blame everything on those who are doing the complaining, charging the them with being the ones responsible for the problem. Nobody had a problem with either of these agencies until the Trump administration started criticizing them and taking control of their communications. You must have missed the news when Republican apparatchik, Michael Caputo, was put in charge of communications for the HHS. He falsely accused agency professionals of "sedition", because they wouldn't alter their reports. That led to his taking an indefinite leave of absence. How was that the fault of Democratic politicians?

HHS Spokesperson Takes Leave of Absence After Disparaging Government Scientists

If medical experts recommend a vaccine independently of political influence by the administration, that could lend it credibility, but, until we have a new administration in place, it is going to be very difficult for the government to get the public to have confidence in a COVID vaccine.

 

[lpetrich]

Warning: NSFW

NYC pushing kinky COVID sex! - 2020 Jun 11

My little town is reopening in more ways than one. On Monday of this week, the day the city entered Phase 1 of reopening, New York City’s Health Department published a guidance document entitled “Safer Sex and COVID-19.” I am posting it below in its entirely because (1) it’s amazing, and (2) I have no idea whether other states (or countries) are doing anything similar. For instance, I highly doubt Alabama is following suit, since sex toys are illegal there. And something tells me all those conservative panty-sniffers in states where “abstinence-only” non-education is standard fare in public schools would start shooting their elected officials if they dared to publish anything so…so… reality-based.

Recommends forms of sexual activity that involve social distancing.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Biden, Harris, Cuomo and others are not claiming that they don't trust vaccines developed while Trump is in office, nor are they saying that they don't trust what medical professionals advise.

That is exactly what they are saying. The medical professionals in the CDC and FDA that approve drug development are the same professionals who have been doing their jobs for quite a while. The presidency does not have the power to dictate their ethics or professionalism. They claim to not trust the professionals in the FDA and the outcome of the vaccine approval process because the wrong party is in office. - - The reason some governors want to independently check the vaccine to see if FDA's approval was endangering the public. Any medical professional whose medical decisions are swayed by political pressure should be immediately fired and their license to practice in their field revoked.

What they are doing is attempting to make the public lose faith in our public health system for purely partisan political reasons. Unfortunately, it does seem to be working to some extent. From personal experience, I know of a few people who now seriously question if they will take the vaccine when it is finally released... Before the political attacks questioning the vaccine, they were anxious for the approval to come soon.

ETA:
They have been trying to walk back their attacks over the last couple weeks. Apparently someone explained to them how stupid and dangerous the politically motivated attacks were. Unfortunately, the seed has been planted and some people are now suspicious of the FDA and their approval process.

You sure are trusting!!

We have seen plenty of examples of the CDC being under the thumb of the politicians and some examples from the FDA. If the vaccine appears too early it is only reasonable to assume it's political.

 

[southernhybrid]

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/10/23/world/covid-19-coronavirus-updates?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

More than 75,000 cases of the coronavirus were announced in the United States on Thursday, the second-highest daily total nationwide since the pandemic began. Eight states set single-day case records, and 13 states have added more cases in the past week than in any other seven-day stretch.

The bleak numbers came as President Trump declared at the final presidential debate on Thursday that, despite evidence, the virus was “going away,” while his challenger, Joseph R. Biden Jr., warned of a “dark winter” ahead that required aggressive federal action.

When Mr. Trump said “we’re learning to live with” the coronavirus, Mr. Biden shot back, “we’re learning to die with it.”

The Midwest and the Rocky Mountains are struggling to contain major outbreaks, while new hot spots are emerging in other parts of the country. Officials in Kentucky announced more than 1,470 cases on Thursday, the biggest one-day jump in that state. And more than 1,300 cases were recorded in Colorado, setting another single-day record. In Chicago, which officials said is averaging 645 new cases a day this week, a nighttime curfew will be imposed on businesses starting on Friday.

Yet, dear leader keeps saying that it's going away soon......

 

[repoman]

How does that compare to influenza "cases".

Are positive tests cases even when the never had a symptom?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

How does that compare to influenza "cases".

The number of cases doesn't matter. The number of serious cases matter. Influenza is rarely serious except in those already near death. Covid kills an awful lot of people that have health issues but are nowhere near death.

Are positive tests cases even when the never had a symptom?

Given the abysmal testing in the US few of those Covid cases are going to be asymptomatic. A couple of weeks ago I called a doctor's office and the phone robot said that Covid testing was only available to those with symptoms and with a doctor's order--and we aren't in anything like the worst of it here.

 

[Elixir]

How does that compare to influenza "cases".

The number of cases doesn't matter. The number of serious cases matter. Influenza is rarely serious except in those already near death. Covid kills an awful lot of people that have health issues but are nowhere near death.

Kills a lot of people with mental health issues - especially mental health issues that involve believing Donald Trump.

 

[repoman]

How does that compare to influenza "cases".

The number of cases doesn't matter. The number of serious cases matter. Influenza is rarely serious except in those already near death. Covid kills an awful lot of people that have health issues but are nowhere near death.

Are positive tests cases even when the never had a symptom?

Given the abysmal testing in the US few of those Covid cases are going to be asymptomatic. A couple of weeks ago I called a doctor's office and the phone robot said that Covid testing was only available to those with symptoms and with a doctor's order--and we aren't in anything like the worst of it here.

I don't think you have evidence for that.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Salem, Massachusets, has cancelled their various Halloween celebrations.
It's like, THE tourist attraction for that area, when the touridts come watch other tourists celebrate the spooky, witchy holiday (All the locals hide during the week, unless they run an occult shop or a witch library.).
Odd that the place famous for the original "witch hunts" Trump keeps mentioning is not choosing to be a superspreader event despote his claims the pandemic is behind us...

 

[repoman]

Is Sweden using a different metric for what makes a covid case and deaths?

Because their cases numbers are going up a lot and deaths have flatlined at 1-5 a day.

 

[crazyfingers]

USA is #1 with 81,400 cases today. 6000 more than the previous largest number in one day

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/10/23/covid-us-spike-cases/

Tell trump it's not going awzy

 

[bilby]

How does that compare to influenza "cases".

Are positive tests cases even when the never had a symptom?

From an epidemiological perspective, a positive test is genuine if the patient is either symptomatic, OR contagious, OR both.

So yes, positive tests are cases if a patient who never has any symptoms is nevertheless able to transmit the disease to others.

This is particularly important with COVID-19, when we look at the low incidence of symptoms (and particularly severe symptoms) in younger patients, who are nevertheless a very significant and real danger to their older contacts, whether those contacts are parents, grandparents, other relatives, coworkers, employees, employers, or just casual contacts in the community.

If we don't want millions to die, we need to isolate those asymptomatic but infectious people. It's simply unacceptable to say that it doesn't matter if we get mass deaths as long as they are mostly older people, just as it wouldn't be acceptable to say "it's OK, only children die and they're not voters (and more importantly, I am not one)" if the severity of symptoms by age were reversed.

"You don't need to worry; It's only your mum and dad who are in danger". What kind of psychopath would expect that to be reassuring?