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Covid-19 miscellany

Keith&Co.

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Here's a question: why do you oppose the government kidnapping her citizens and physically forcing the COVID-19 jab on them?
Hyperbole much? This is why it's impossible to take you seriously.
I'm not sure i completely oppose that.
Maybe not kidnapping, no. Some people really do have valid reasons to avoid or delay the jab. Some are willing to take the necessary steps (mask, distancing, quarantine) to not be a threat to others, to take responsibility for their vector status.

But people flashing forged vaccine cards? I'd support holding them down and vaccinating them. Stamp 'JVs.M" on their foreheads, stab 'em in the arms, issue a real vax card. And a lollipop. And a court summons to a clinic for the second shot. And another lollipop.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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Why are you continuing to apologize for those who resist scientifically supported measures to stop the virus from killing a bunch of our friends, or even ourselves?
Why do you frame everything dishonestly and then expect me to take the bait?

Here's a question: why do you oppose the government kidnapping her citizens and physically forcing the COVID-19 jab on them?
*spit take*

Since July 1, 2021, 250,000 Americans have died, likely most of them needlessly, because they weren't vax'd.

A quarter million Americans died... needlessly. And your question is asking whether a shot is just too much liberty lost.
 

Toni

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Here's the place where I share with you (again) that my former lab, which during the time I worked there, employed approximately 50 people and which for the bulk of the past 2 years has run shifts 24/7, many of my former coworkers working overtime, routinely, has over the past few months ADDED 150 (ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY) lab techs to perform in lab COVID19 testing. NONE of these have any direct patient contact--they do not collect samples.

NOTE: My former employer is a large medical facility which has many, many specialized labs. My former lab is only one of several who are performing COVID 19 testing.

FFS people: Do you not understand the serious medical crisis we (as in, the entire world) is facing? Or the fall out as businesses all over the US (and I would presume other countries) struggle to hire people to cover shifts, drive trucks, load/unload, etc. I'm feeling extremely fortunate to live in a small town in flyover country because things are better here than elsewhere.
 

TSwizzle

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Seriously? Anti-vax and anti-mask idiots are the real issue. Like the Republicans and right wing flame throwers.

Not really. It has been pointed out to you many times now that vaccinated people do contract and spread this virus. There is zero evidence that masks have done anything to "stop/slow the spread". This irrational hatred you have of "the other" is about politics.

Anyone who knows anything about how the last year+ went knows that it's the fucking idiots who refused to be responsible messed it up.

The pandemic is over, it's time to lift all mandates, they have been a failure.
 

Jarhyn

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Why are you continuing to apologize for those who resist scientifically supported measures to stop the virus from killing a bunch of our friends, or even ourselves?
Why do you frame everything dishonestly and then expect me to take the bait?

Here's a question: why do you oppose the government kidnapping her citizens and physically forcing the COVID-19 jab on them?
*spit take*

Since July 1, 2021, 250,000 Americans have died, likely most of them needlessly, because they weren't vax'd.

A quarter million Americans died... needlessly. And your question is asking whether a shot is just too much liberty lost.
I expect that seeing others being asked to take a shot is just too many "lulzcows" lost to maintain their "lulzmilk" addiction.
 

Toni

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Seriously? Anti-vax and anti-mask idiots are the real issue. Like the Republicans and right wing flame throwers.

Not really. It has been pointed out to you many times now that vaccinated people do contract and spread this virus. There is zero evidence that masks have done anything to "stop/slow the spread". This irrational hatred you have of "the other" is about politics.

Anyone who knows anything about how the last year+ went knows that it's the fucking idiots who refused to be responsible messed it up.

The pandemic is over, it's time to lift all mandates, they have been a failure.
TSwizzle is bored or at least uncomfortable so let's just pretend that people we know and love are not actually dead or hospitalized and might die. Anything but TSwizzle being bored and uncomfortable!!!
 

TSwizzle

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TSwizzle is bored or at least uncomfortable so let's just pretend that people we know and love are not actually dead or hospitalized and might die. Anything but TSwizzle being bored and uncomfortable!!!

At least I'm not pretending that these mandates we've had for the past TWO YEARS are "slowing/stopping the spread".

Two years this has been going on. I remember it was "two weeks to flatten the curve". LOL.
 

Jarhyn

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At least I'm not pretending that these mandates we've had for the past TWO YEARS are "slowing/stopping the spread".
You are materially contributing, and actively so, to any lack of efficacy.

You are as obvious as a libertarian in a government office trying to disable said office.

I guess the deliverable here is that we have not been strict enough as a society in leveraging conformity to well demonstrated requirements for surviving and eradicating viruses
 

Ruth Harris

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Two years this has been going on. I remember it was "two weeks to flatten the curve". LOL.

Regarding "flattening the curve": from here in an article by the University of Michigan Health dated March 11, 2020:

If individuals and communities take steps to slow the virus’s spread, that means the number of cases of COVID-19 will stretch out across a longer period of time. As the curve shows, the number of cases at any given time doesn’t cross the dotted line of the capacity of our nation’s health care system to help everyone who’s very sick.

“If you don’t have as many cases coming to the hospitals and clinics at once, it can actually lower the number of total deaths from the virus and from other causes,” he says. “And, importantly, it buys us time for university and government scientists, and industry, to create new therapies, medications and potentially a vaccine.”

People didn't take steps to slow the spread. This is what we got for ignoring the experts.

Ruth
 

TSwizzle

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First off, it's a BS article based on wishful thinking.

People didn't take steps to slow the spread. This is what we got for ignoring the experts.

We did what were asked back in 2019 2020. It's now January 2022.

It's over. There is no reason to continue with these damaging restrictions.

Edit: Typo
 

crazyfingers

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Seriously? Anti-vax and anti-mask idiots are the real issue. Like the Republicans and right wing flame throwers.

Not really. It has been pointed out to you many times now that vaccinated people do contract and spread this virus. There is zero evidence that masks have done anything to "stop/slow the spread". This irrational hatred you have of "the other" is about politics.

Anyone who knows anything about how the last year+ went knows that it's the fucking idiots who refused to be responsible messed it up.

The pandemic is over, it's time to lift all mandates, they have been a failure.
TSwizzle is bored or at least uncomfortable so let's just pretend that people we know and love are not actually dead or hospitalized and might die. Anything but TSwizzle being bored and uncomfortable!!!

As usual, the most generous thing one can say is that TS has no idea what he's talking about. My own opinion is not so generous.
 

southernhybrid

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Here's the place where I share with you (again) that my former lab, which during the time I worked there, employed approximately 50 people and which for the bulk of the past 2 years has run shifts 24/7, many of my former coworkers working overtime, routinely, has over the past few months ADDED 150 (ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY) lab techs to perform in lab COVID19 testing. NONE of these have any direct patient contact--they do not collect samples.

NOTE: My former employer is a large medical facility which has many, many specialized labs. My former lab is only one of several who are performing COVID 19 testing.

FFS people: Do you not understand the serious medical crisis we (as in, the entire world) is facing? Or the fall out as businesses all over the US (and I would presume other countries) struggle to hire people to cover shifts, drive trucks, load/unload, etc. I'm feeling extremely fortunate to live in a small town in flyover country because things are better here than elsewhere.
Yes, to the above!

I'm going to add a link that discuses how difficult this pandemic continues to be for medical workers. Apparently, a few of the members here don't want to believe the truth. The truth is that vaccines almost always prevent hospitalization and death. The truth is that this pandemic has substantially added to the shortage of nurses and other health care professionals who are vitally important to our system. In fact, nurses are often described as "the backbone of our health care system". But, thanks to careless people and those who have refused to be vaccinated, the job of nurses has become unbearable for many. I don't blame those who refuse to take the vaccine nearly as much as I blame those in powerful or influential positions who have spread false information. Anyway, my "gifted" article includes a video that included the vies of nurses as well of at least one critically ill patient who now regrets not being vaccinated.

https://wapo.st/3AvDHJr

Angie Wheeler had bonded with her patient, and now his body was failing. The nurse tried not to let him see the concern in her eyes.
It was only the day before that he had told her about his job, his wife and children. Now, the intensive care unit’s head doctor told Wheeler, he needed to be placed on a ventilator. She donned her protective gear and headed in.

Nearly two years into the coronavirus pandemic, Wheeler, 65, knew what to say:
“You’re going to go to sleep, okay? You won’t remember any of this.”
“I’m trusting you to take care of me,” he told her.
The words hurt. Why, Wheeler couldn’t help but think, hadn’t he just gotten vaccinated?
Like hospitals across the country, Luminis Health Doctors Community Hospital is facing a two-pronged crisis in this surge, with thin staffing and more covid-19 patients than ever before. Employees who remain have no choice but to shoulder bigger burdens. Among the heaviest, they say, is the emotional weight of so much preventable death.

Yeah, that's right. The majority of those who have died or been hospitalized with COVID haven't been vaccinated. If everyone was vaccinated by now, this thing would be endemic. We would treat it like the yearly flu and smart people would always receive their yearly vaccine. The thing that disgusts me the most is the lack of empathy that the unvaccinated have for those who are working their asses off trying to take care of fools like you. Sure, there are breakthrough cases, but with few exceptions, they are mild, unless the individual has a lot of underlying medical conditions. So, when we end up with the worse nursing shortage in my lifetime, at least part of the blame goes to all the idiots who refused to be vaccinated, and follow other public health guidelines. It's sad when people have to be forced to take a potentially life saving vaccine. How the fuck did this happen!
 

Toni

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TSwizzle is bored or at least uncomfortable so let's just pretend that people we know and love are not actually dead or hospitalized and might die. Anything but TSwizzle being bored and uncomfortable!!!

At least I'm not pretending that these mandates we've had for the past TWO YEARS are "slowing/stopping the spread".

Two years this has been going on. I remember it was "two weeks to flatten the curve". LOL.
No policy or containment measures work without strong adherence to the containment measures. The face that there has been so much vaccine resistance and resistance to masks and staying out of crowds, etc. has prolonged the pandemic and helped give rise to variants that are resistant to vaccines.

But you’re bored so let’s all just give up and die.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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Yeah, that's right. The majority of those who have died or been hospitalized with COVID haven't been vaccinated. If everyone was vaccinated by now, this thing would be endemic. We would treat it like the yearly flu and smart people would always receive their yearly vaccine. The thing that disgusts me the most is the lack of empathy that the unvaccinated have for those who are working their asses off trying to take care of fools like you. Sure, there are breakthrough cases, but with few exceptions, they are mild, unless the individual has a lot of underlying medical conditions. So, when we end up with the worse nursing shortage in my lifetime, at least part of the blame goes to all the idiots who refused to be vaccinated, and follow other public health guidelines. It's sad when people have to be forced to take a potentially life saving vaccine. How the fuck did this happen!
Indeed, an entire industry is burning itself out, because the unvax'd thought they were so damn smart.
 

laughing dog

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The Government spent a shitload of money to help create conditions that would incentivize pharma companies to develop vaccinations to prevent/reduce harm of the virus. The other issues were failures of the Trump Admin to not get real mask production through the roof, which Biden is finally doing with test kits and masks, providing a large demand to get production up.

It’s hard to take this seriously. Biden promised he’d end the virus but it’s one failure after another. The VP said their administration didn’t anticipate the variants. These are some stupid fucking people.
Perhaps, but they are smarter than the anti-vaxxers.
TSwizzle is bored or at least uncomfortable so let's just pretend that people we know and love are not actually dead or hospitalized and might die. Anything but TSwizzle being bored and uncomfortable!!!

At least I'm not pretending that these mandates we've had for the past TWO YEARS are "slowing/stopping the spread".

Two years this has been going on. I remember it was "two weeks to flatten the curve". LOL.
No policy or containment measures work without strong adherence to the containment measures. The face that there has been so much vaccine resistance and resistance to masks and staying out of crowds, etc. has prolonged the pandemic and helped give rise to variants that are resistant to vaccines.

But you’re bored so let’s all just give up and die.
Unless TSwizzle has counterfactual evidence as to the spread of covid without mandates, he is expressing an unscientific, ill-conceived and illogical opinion.
 

TSwizzle

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No policy or containment measures work without strong adherence to the containment measures.

The containment measures (such as they were) has prolonged the agony, condemned countless people to crushing poverty, destroyed the economy, caused untold suffering to young people, denied the sick access to medical services and likely sent them to an early grave. Not fit for purpose.
The face that there has been so much vaccine resistance and resistance to masks and staying out of crowds, etc.
The resistance to vaccines is not a huge problem and be honest, the vaccine isn't stopping the spread anyway. Masks, ZERO evidence masks do anything to stop the spread. The six feet distance, another arbitrary non science piece of nonsense. Staying out of crowds? Granted, that will have an effect when talking about indoor events but outdoors, not so much.

has prolonged the pandemic and helped give rise to variants that are resistant to vaccines.

There was always going to be variants so that's a crock.

But you’re bored so let’s all just give up abs die.

Give up and die?! Oh please. Are we supposed to live with these restrictions for ever? Most people won't. I won't and actually I don't.

Super Bowl, I predict a full house at SoFi Stadium.

Go Rams !
 

Worldtraveller

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The Government spent a shitload of money to help create conditions that would incentivize pharma companies to develop vaccinations to prevent/reduce harm of the virus. The other issues were failures of the Trump Admin to not get real mask production through the roof, which Biden is finally doing with test kits and masks, providing a large demand to get production up.

It’s hard to take this seriously. Biden promised he’d end the virus but it’s one failure after another. The VP said their administration didn’t anticipate the variants. These are some stupid fucking people.
Perhaps, but they are smarter than the anti-vaxxers.
TSwizzle is bored or at least uncomfortable so let's just pretend that people we know and love are not actually dead or hospitalized and might die. Anything but TSwizzle being bored and uncomfortable!!!

At least I'm not pretending that these mandates we've had for the past TWO YEARS are "slowing/stopping the spread".

Two years this has been going on. I remember it was "two weeks to flatten the curve". LOL.
No policy or containment measures work without strong adherence to the containment measures. The face that there has been so much vaccine resistance and resistance to masks and staying out of crowds, etc. has prolonged the pandemic and helped give rise to variants that are resistant to vaccines.

But you’re bored so let’s all just give up and die.
Unless TSwizzle has counterfactual evidence as to the spread of covid without mandates, he is expressing an unscientific, ill-conceived and illogical opinion.
So, another day on iidb.
 

Toni

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No policy or containment measures work without strong adherence to the containment measures.

The containment measures (such as they were) has prolonged the agony, condemned countless people to crushing poverty, destroyed the economy, caused untold suffering to young people, denied the sick access to medical services and likely sent them to an early grave. Not fit for purpose.
The face that there has been so much vaccine resistance and resistance to masks and staying out of crowds, etc.
The resistance to vaccines is not a huge problem and be honest, the vaccine isn't stopping the spread anyway. Masks, ZERO evidence masks do anything to stop the spread. The six feet distance, another arbitrary non science piece of nonsense. Staying out of crowds? Granted, that will have an effect when talking about indoor events but outdoors, not so much.

has prolonged the pandemic and helped give rise to variants that are resistant to vaccines.

There was always going to be variants so that's a crock.

But you’re bored so let’s all just give up abs die.

Give up and die?! Oh please. Are we supposed to live with these restrictions for ever? Most people won't. I won't and actually I don't.

Super Bowl, I predict a full house at SoFi Stadium.

Go Rams !
Once
Apparently, a few of the members here don't want to believe the truth. The truth is that vaccines almost always prevent hospitalization and death.

Which members are they? Can you provide a link to a posting from one of those members ?
Do you not have any mirrors in your house?
 

Angra Mainyu

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Sarah Palin has COVID,... for the second time! (first time was last spring) Another victory for Natural Immunitytm!!

One might say that AOC had covid: another victory for vaccines!

The point is that one should look at the evidence from many cases when available (and some is available, in the form of studies) to see whether vaccine-induced immunity or infection-induced immunity is stronger. Single cases provide only very weak evidence. repoman provided some actual evidence: according to those studies, it looks like vaccine-induced immunity was stronger pre-Delta, whereas infection-induced immunity was stronger against Delta. But that doesn't tell us the whole story, as we didn't know which variant they'd been infected with. I haven't seen numbers for Omicron yet, but it's difficult to tell which immunity is stronger; at any rate, single cases like that won't help much.
 

crazyfingers

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Sarah Palin has COVID,... for the second time! (first time was last spring) Another victory for Natural Immunitytm!!

One might say that AOC had covid: another victory for vaccines!

The point is that one should look at the evidence from many cases when available (and some is available, in the form of studies) to see whether vaccine-induced immunity or infection-induced immunity is stronger. Single cases provide only very weak evidence. repoman provided some actual evidence: according to those studies, it looks like vaccine-induced immunity was stronger pre-Delta, whereas infection-induced immunity was stronger against Delta. But that doesn't tell us the whole story, as we didn't know which variant they'd been infected with. I haven't seen numbers for Omicron yet, but it's difficult to tell which immunity is stronger; at any rate, single cases like that won't help much.

And she tested positive the day after breaking NYC's vaccine requirement for eating indoors at a restaurant while unvaccinated.
 

TSwizzle

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Oops;

President Joe Biden was forced to come to terms with his humiliating loss in the Supreme Court on Tuesday when his administration formally buried its highly controversial vaccine rule for private businesses with at least 100 employees. The U.S. Department of Labor's Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) is now withdrawing the rule, which required large employers to either implement a COVID vaccine requirement or force workers to submit to weekly virus testing, which it formally issued after Biden's order on November 5 of last year.

Daily Mail

Good news. Hopefully all the people that were fired because of this will get compensation.

In terms of new hires, I don't see anything wrong with stating something like "candidates that are vaccinated will be given preference" but with today's labor market I'm not sure if employers can be so picky.
 

laughing dog

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Oops;

President Joe Biden was forced to come to terms with his humiliating loss in the Supreme Court on Tuesday when his administration formally buried its highly controversial vaccine rule for private businesses with at least 100 employees. The U.S. Department of Labor's Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) is now withdrawing the rule, which required large employers to either implement a COVID vaccine requirement or force workers to submit to weekly virus testing, which it formally issued after Biden's order on November 5 of last year.

Daily Mail

Good news. Hopefully all the people that were fired because of this will get compensation.
There was no reason for anyone to get fired because of the order - it had not gone into effect.

Futhermore, employers already had the right to fire unvaccinated workers.
In terms of new hires, I don't see anything wrong with stating something like "candidates that are vaccinated will be given preference" but with today's labor market I'm not sure if employers can be so picky.
 

Angra Mainyu

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Sarah Palin has COVID,... for the second time! (first time was last spring) Another victory for Natural Immunitytm!!

One might say that AOC had covid: another victory for vaccines!

The point is that one should look at the evidence from many cases when available (and some is available, in the form of studies) to see whether vaccine-induced immunity or infection-induced immunity is stronger. Single cases provide only very weak evidence. repoman provided some actual evidence: according to those studies, it looks like vaccine-induced immunity was stronger pre-Delta, whereas infection-induced immunity was stronger against Delta. But that doesn't tell us the whole story, as we didn't know which variant they'd been infected with. I haven't seen numbers for Omicron yet, but it's difficult to tell which immunity is stronger; at any rate, single cases like that won't help much.

And she tested positive the day after breaking NYC's vaccine requirement for eating indoors at a restaurant while unvaccinated.
But that is not evidence that being unvaccinated but having had a previous infection provides generally less protection against Omicron than being vaccinated, let alone that it provides no protection.
 

crazyfingers

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Sarah Palin has COVID,... for the second time! (first time was last spring) Another victory for Natural Immunitytm!!

One might say that AOC had covid: another victory for vaccines!

The point is that one should look at the evidence from many cases when available (and some is available, in the form of studies) to see whether vaccine-induced immunity or infection-induced immunity is stronger. Single cases provide only very weak evidence. repoman provided some actual evidence: according to those studies, it looks like vaccine-induced immunity was stronger pre-Delta, whereas infection-induced immunity was stronger against Delta. But that doesn't tell us the whole story, as we didn't know which variant they'd been infected with. I haven't seen numbers for Omicron yet, but it's difficult to tell which immunity is stronger; at any rate, single cases like that won't help much.

And she tested positive the day after breaking NYC's vaccine requirement for eating indoors at a restaurant while unvaccinated.
But that is not evidence that being unvaccinated but having had a previous infection provides generally less protection against Omicron than being vaccinated, let alone that it provides no protection.

You miss the point. It's evidence that she is a fucktard.
 

Don2 (Don1 Revised)

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uQYTxA1.png
 

Keith&Co.

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I love comparing immunity thru vaccine to immunity thru infection.
Immunity is stipulated to be desirable in both cases.
The reason immunity is desired is to prevent fucking infection.
I mean, seriously, it's like debating if you're better protected by oven mitts or by developing scar tissue from the burning....


With apologies to xkcd.
 

marc

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I love comparing immunity thru vaccine to immunity thru infection.
Immunity is stipulated to be desirable in both cases.
The reason immunity is desired is to prevent fucking infection.
I mean, seriously, it's like debating if you're better protected by oven mitts or by developing scar tissue from the burning....


With apologies to xkcd.
Also with 'natural immunity' there is that little risk of death, or just loosing the ability to smell or taste for months, possibly longer, and finding that going up a flight of stairs is now a challenge.

 

Jimmy Higgins

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Sarah Palin has COVID,... for the second time! (first time was last spring) Another victory for Natural Immunitytm!!

One might say that AOC had covid: another victory for vaccines!

The point is that one should look at the evidence from many cases when available (and some is available, in the form of studies) to see whether vaccine-induced immunity or infection-induced immunity is stronger. Single cases provide only very weak evidence. repoman provided some actual evidence: according to those studies, it looks like vaccine-induced immunity was stronger pre-Delta, whereas infection-induced immunity was stronger against Delta. But that doesn't tell us the whole story, as we didn't know which variant they'd been infected with. I haven't seen numbers for Omicron yet, but it's difficult to tell which immunity is stronger; at any rate, single cases like that won't help much.

And she tested positive the day after breaking NYC's vaccine requirement for eating indoors at a restaurant while unvaccinated.
But that is not evidence that being unvaccinated but having had a previous infection provides generally less protection against Omicron than being vaccinated, let alone that it provides no protection.
Actually, her appearance in the restaurant to me indicates she is vaccinated and she is lying about vaccinations.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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I love comparing immunity thru vaccine to immunity thru infection.
Immunity is stipulated to be desirable in both cases.
The reason immunity is desired is to prevent fucking infection.
I mean, seriously, it's like debating if you're better protected by oven mitts or by developing scar tissue from the burning....


With apologies to xkcd.
Also with 'natural immunity' there is that little risk of death, or just loosing the ability to smell or taste for months, possibly longer, and finding that going up a flight of stairs is now a challenge.

I trust my immune system -> I wanna get sick

Hmm... bottle of Drano... I trust my digestive system!
 

Toni

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Sarah Palin has COVID,... for the second time! (first time was last spring) Another victory for Natural Immunitytm!!

One might say that AOC had covid: another victory for vaccines!

The point is that one should look at the evidence from many cases when available (and some is available, in the form of studies) to see whether vaccine-induced immunity or infection-induced immunity is stronger. Single cases provide only very weak evidence. repoman provided some actual evidence: according to those studies, it looks like vaccine-induced immunity was stronger pre-Delta, whereas infection-induced immunity was stronger against Delta. But that doesn't tell us the whole story, as we didn't know which variant they'd been infected with. I haven't seen numbers for Omicron yet, but it's difficult to tell which immunity is stronger; at any rate, single cases like that won't help much.

And she tested positive the day after breaking NYC's vaccine requirement for eating indoors at a restaurant while unvaccinated.
But that is not evidence that being unvaccinated but having had a previous infection provides generally less protection against Omicron than being vaccinated, let alone that it provides no protection.
Actually, her appearance in the restaurant to me indicates she is vaccinated and she is lying about vaccinations.
I don't think she's vaccinated, mostly because this is her second bout of COVID. Unless she's faking to delay the trial.
 

crazyfingers

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Sarah Palin has COVID,... for the second time! (first time was last spring) Another victory for Natural Immunitytm!!

One might say that AOC had covid: another victory for vaccines!

The point is that one should look at the evidence from many cases when available (and some is available, in the form of studies) to see whether vaccine-induced immunity or infection-induced immunity is stronger. Single cases provide only very weak evidence. repoman provided some actual evidence: according to those studies, it looks like vaccine-induced immunity was stronger pre-Delta, whereas infection-induced immunity was stronger against Delta. But that doesn't tell us the whole story, as we didn't know which variant they'd been infected with. I haven't seen numbers for Omicron yet, but it's difficult to tell which immunity is stronger; at any rate, single cases like that won't help much.

And she tested positive the day after breaking NYC's vaccine requirement for eating indoors at a restaurant while unvaccinated.
But that is not evidence that being unvaccinated but having had a previous infection provides generally less protection against Omicron than being vaccinated, let alone that it provides no protection.
Actually, her appearance in the restaurant to me indicates she is vaccinated and she is lying about vaccinations.

That is a possibility.
 

Jason Harvestdancer

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We are told there is no dehumanizing of the unvaxed, and that comparing them to vermin is not dehumanizing them.

If there is no dehumanization going on, then we wouldn't see cheering among the Branch Covidians every time one person or another who isn't vaxed dies with Covid.

And yes, I used the word "with".
 

Angra Mainyu

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Sarah Palin has COVID,... for the second time! (first time was last spring) Another victory for Natural Immunitytm!!

One might say that AOC had covid: another victory for vaccines!

The point is that one should look at the evidence from many cases when available (and some is available, in the form of studies) to see whether vaccine-induced immunity or infection-induced immunity is stronger. Single cases provide only very weak evidence. repoman provided some actual evidence: according to those studies, it looks like vaccine-induced immunity was stronger pre-Delta, whereas infection-induced immunity was stronger against Delta. But that doesn't tell us the whole story, as we didn't know which variant they'd been infected with. I haven't seen numbers for Omicron yet, but it's difficult to tell which immunity is stronger; at any rate, single cases like that won't help much.

And she tested positive the day after breaking NYC's vaccine requirement for eating indoors at a restaurant while unvaccinated.
But that is not evidence that being unvaccinated but having had a previous infection provides generally less protection against Omicron than being vaccinated, let alone that it provides no protection.

You miss the point. It's evidence that she is a fucktard.
I find the concept of a fucktard difficult to grok so I can't be sure, but her behavior seems also compatible with being intelligent and politically motivated.
I love comparing immunity thru vaccine to immunity thru infection.
Immunity is stipulated to be desirable in both cases.
The reason immunity is desired is to prevent fucking infection.
I mean, seriously, it's like debating if you're better protected by oven mitts or by developing scar tissue from the burning....


With apologies to xkcd.

First, I compared them because the evidence presented against natural immunity was equally applicable to vaccines - it doesn't work in either case -, because it's been compared in the thread before and clearly there is disagreement, and because there are studies comparing them as well

Second, when it comes to assessing whether vaccines passports, mandates, etc., and restrictions on the unvaccinated are justified, the comparison is relevant to the extent that no exceptions are made for the previously infected.

Third, the reason immunity is desirable...desirable by whom? Well, in the moral debates surrounding the matter, it seems the issue is not that immunity is important to prevent the immunized person's infection, but to prevent that the person in question infect others. If you take a look at the usual accusations against unvaccinated people, it is generally not because of a risk to themselves, but rather, about the risk to others, which in theory the vaccinated would not pose. So, in this context, the comparison does matter.
 

Angra Mainyu

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Sarah Palin has COVID,... for the second time! (first time was last spring) Another victory for Natural Immunitytm!!

One might say that AOC had covid: another victory for vaccines!

The point is that one should look at the evidence from many cases when available (and some is available, in the form of studies) to see whether vaccine-induced immunity or infection-induced immunity is stronger. Single cases provide only very weak evidence. repoman provided some actual evidence: according to those studies, it looks like vaccine-induced immunity was stronger pre-Delta, whereas infection-induced immunity was stronger against Delta. But that doesn't tell us the whole story, as we didn't know which variant they'd been infected with. I haven't seen numbers for Omicron yet, but it's difficult to tell which immunity is stronger; at any rate, single cases like that won't help much.

And she tested positive the day after breaking NYC's vaccine requirement for eating indoors at a restaurant while unvaccinated.
But that is not evidence that being unvaccinated but having had a previous infection provides generally less protection against Omicron than being vaccinated, let alone that it provides no protection.
Actually, her appearance in the restaurant to me indicates she is vaccinated and she is lying about vaccinations.
Well, in that case, her reinfection is evidence against immunity from previous infection + vaccination.

Still, very weak evidence, so nothing to worry about.
 

Angra Mainyu

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Sarah Palin has COVID,... for the second time! (first time was last spring) Another victory for Natural Immunitytm!!

One might say that AOC had covid: another victory for vaccines!

The point is that one should look at the evidence from many cases when available (and some is available, in the form of studies) to see whether vaccine-induced immunity or infection-induced immunity is stronger. Single cases provide only very weak evidence. repoman provided some actual evidence: according to those studies, it looks like vaccine-induced immunity was stronger pre-Delta, whereas infection-induced immunity was stronger against Delta. But that doesn't tell us the whole story, as we didn't know which variant they'd been infected with. I haven't seen numbers for Omicron yet, but it's difficult to tell which immunity is stronger; at any rate, single cases like that won't help much.

And she tested positive the day after breaking NYC's vaccine requirement for eating indoors at a restaurant while unvaccinated.
But that is not evidence that being unvaccinated but having had a previous infection provides generally less protection against Omicron than being vaccinated, let alone that it provides no protection.
Actually, her appearance in the restaurant to me indicates she is vaccinated and she is lying about vaccinations.
I don't think she's vaccinated, mostly because this is her second bout of COVID. Unless she's faking to delay the trial.
If you take a look at the cdc study repoman linked to, you'll see that plenty of vaccinated people who had covid before, get covid again. The percentages are lower, of course, but there is nothing extraordinary about it.
 

Keith&Co.

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I'm here...
We are told there is no dehumanizing of the unvaxed, and that comparing them to vermin is not dehumanizing them
Well, no. Actual vermin have no understanding of contagion, posing a risk to the nest, or sposing a greater risk to the host. They survive with the same instincts developed for millenia.


Humans giving a virus more reproductive rights than a working single mother, or insisting they suffer no inconvenience for posing a risk, flaunting their privilege as the beneficial inheritors of a thousand years of healthcare practices such that they assume they are blessed and invulnerable, not totally dependent on science....
They're making a clearly human choice to be a plague rat. So, we're underlining their humanity.
Of course this is the same readon humans get charged with war crimes, not tanks.
 

Jarhyn

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We are told there is no dehumanizing of the unvaxed, and that comparing them to vermin is not dehumanizing them
Well, no. Actual vermin have no understanding of contagion, posing a risk to the nest, or sposing a greater risk to the host. They survive with the same instincts developed for millenia.


Humans giving a virus more reproductive rights than a working single mother, or insisting they suffer no inconvenience for posing a risk, flaunting their privilege as the beneficial inheritors of a thousand years of healthcare practices such that they assume they are blessed and invulnerable, not totally dependent on science....
They're making a clearly human choice to be a plague rat. So, we're underlining their humanity.
Of course this is the same readon humans get charged with war crimes, not tanks.
I would say that they don't necessarily make the choice to be a plague rat when the best information they have according to their history of friendship and family says that it is something to cast doubt on.

I entirely see the plague rats as those who do so for their own sick amusement.

Still, I can't help but respect your outlook. At some point we have to recognize that there is a sickness here beyond the disease. Perhaps shame can turn some, but I am not so sure it will get us further to where we wish than foregoing shame and just doing what @Keith&Co. suggested except without the forehead stamp.

I would suggest keeping count though of whether someone continues riding waves of Big Lie, especially when they are obvious waves.
 
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