Covid-19 miscellany

[crazyfingers]

Europe's unvaccinated minority are falling out of society

The increasingly vast divide between Europe's two populations means that "underground communities" of unvaccinated people have taken root.

www.cnn.com

I wish that this was possible in the US.

"We will not allow a tiny minority of unhinged extremists to impose its will on our entire society," Germany's new Chancellor, Olaf Scholz, said last month, targeting the violent fringes of the anti-vaccine movement.

Vaccine passports have been in place for months to gain entry to hospitality venues in much of the European Union. But as Delta and Omicron infections have surged and inoculation rollouts have stalled, some governments have gone further.

Austria imposed Europe's first lockdown for the unvaccinated and is scheduled to introduce mandatory shots from February 1.
Germany has banned unvaccinated people from most areas of public life, and the country's Health Minister, Karl Lauterbach, warned in December that: "without mandatory vaccination I do not see us managing further waves in the long term."

And France's President Emmanuel Macron last week told Le Parisien newspaper that he "really wants to piss off" the unvaccinated. "We're going to keep doing it until the end," he said. "This is the strategy."

 

[Toni]

If someone in my family were to die of covid due to misinformation, I would not be the least bit bothered by the mouthpiece giving them that misinformation dying of covid and being ridiculed for it.

That's pretty much how I feel. Sorry for Toni and her experience, but I am flat out of fucks to give about the suffering of purveyors of disinformation when they are hoisted by their own petard.

To be clear: the person I was talking about was misled by someone who claimed to be a fertility expert and claimed vaccination would make it more difficult for him and his wife to conceive. Someone died because he so much wanted to become a father that he listened to quack advice. There are many levels of tragedy to this situation.

I don’t know the name of the so called expert who gave this couple such horrific advice and I agree that there are not enough bad things that could/should happen to this so called expert.

 

[Angry Floof]

If someone in my family were to die of covid due to misinformation, I would not be the least bit bothered by the mouthpiece giving them that misinformation dying of covid and being ridiculed for it.

That's pretty much how I feel. Sorry for Toni and her experience, but I am flat out of fucks to give about the suffering of purveyors of disinformation when they are hoisted by their own petard.

I had a further thought after posting that. If the person in my family who hypothetically died of covid was also an influential mouthpiece and purveyor of bad info with a following, and then was publicly ridiculed after dying of covid, I would still be sad about their death for sure, but I would also be embarrassed and not at all angry or resentful of the people doing the ridiculing. If that's what it fucking takes, you know?

 

[Toni]

If someone in my family were to die of covid due to misinformation, I would not be the least bit bothered by the mouthpiece giving them that misinformation dying of covid and being ridiculed for it.

That's pretty much how I feel. Sorry for Toni and her experience, but I am flat out of fucks to give about the suffering of purveyors of disinformation when they are hoisted by their own petard.

I had a further thought after posting that. If the person in my family who hypothetically died of covid was also an influential mouthpiece and purveyor of bad info with a following, and then was publicly ridiculed after dying of covid, I would still be sad about their death for sure, but I would also be embarrassed and not at all angry or resentful of the people doing the ridiculing. If that's what it fucking takes, you know?

My grief is for the person who died, and his wife and his family.

I posted what I did because I believe that we must keep in mind that every person who dies of COVID is an actual human being, with hopes and dreams of their own. Some avoid vaccination out of fears stoked by charlatans who are feeding the desperation of people.

I think we need to keep that in mind: desperate people might believe anything. It's difficult to convince them of the truth if what they are feeling is desperate. We need to remove the desperation. Most people who avoid vaccination don't do so because some quack advised them it would affect their fertility but they believe lies because they feel desperate to hold on to...something. It's the same feeling of desperation that has fed the followers of so many right wing supporters of The Former Guy. Many/most are desperately afraid that the new world (and the world is always changing, is always new, and is always the same old thing, both at the same time) will leave them behind or further behind and that they have no hope except the false hope peddled by charlatans and quacks who care only for their own power and nothing for those to believe in them.

 

[Angry Floof]

If someone in my family were to die of covid due to misinformation, I would not be the least bit bothered by the mouthpiece giving them that misinformation dying of covid and being ridiculed for it.

That's pretty much how I feel. Sorry for Toni and her experience, but I am flat out of fucks to give about the suffering of purveyors of disinformation when they are hoisted by their own petard.

To be clear: the person I was talking about was misled by someone who claimed to be a fertility expert and claimed vaccination would make it more difficult for him and his wife to conceive. Someone died because he so much wanted to become a father that he listened to quack advice. There are many levels of tragedy to this situation.

I don’t know the name of the so called expert who gave this couple such horrific advice and I agree that there are not enough bad things that could/should happen to this so called expert.

That's an important distinction to make, I agree. That person was not a self important loud mouth attention whore political points, whatever, purposely spreading misinformation where the spreading of the misinformation itself is their gratification or livelihood. That expert no doubt had such underly9ing motives even if they were telling themselves a story about doing good on the surface.

Lying to ourselves because we desperately want children or a cure for disease or just to live, that's quite another story. Much love to them and to you, Toni.

 

[Angry Floof]

I t

If someone in my family were to die of covid due to misinformation, I would not be the least bit bothered by the mouthpiece giving them that misinformation dying of covid and being ridiculed for it.

That's pretty much how I feel. Sorry for Toni and her experience, but I am flat out of fucks to give about the suffering of purveyors of disinformation when they are hoisted by their own petard.

I had a further thought after posting that. If the person in my family who hypothetically died of covid was also an influential mouthpiece and purveyor of bad info with a following, and then was publicly ridiculed after dying of covid, I would still be sad about their death for sure, but I would also be embarrassed and not at all angry or resentful of the people doing the ridiculing. If that's what it fucking takes, you know?

My grief is for the person who died, and his wife and his family.

I posted what I did because I believe that we must keep in mind that every person who dies of COVID is an actual human being, with hopes and dreams of their own. Some avoid vaccination out of fears stoked by charlatans who are feeding the desperation of people.

I think we need to keep that in mind: desperate people might believe anything. It's difficult to convince them of the truth if what they are feeling is desperate. We need to remove the desperation. Most people who avoid vaccination don't do so because some quack advised them it would affect their fertility but they believe lies because they feel desperate to hold on to...something. It's the same feeling of desperation that has fed the followers of so many right wing supporters of The Former Guy. Many/most are desperately afraid that the new world (and the world is always changing, is always new, and is always the same old thing, both at the same time) will leave them behind or further behind and that they have no hope except the false hope peddled by charlatans and quacks who care only for their own power and nothing for those to believe in them.

I think we were posting at the same time.

 

[TSwizzle]

Even the Labour Party have come to their senses;

Labour signalled today that it would no longer back lockdowns, claiming that the country now has to 'learn to live with Covid'. In an article for The Mail on Sunday, he wrote: 'We know that the coronavirus is here to stay but, as Labour's Shadow Health Secretary, I don't want to see our country in lockdown ever again.'
Last night, anti-lockdown Tory MPs welcomed Labour's 'conversion' to common sense but insisted they should never have voted for lockdowns as there was no 'clear evidence' from international comparisons that lockdowns worked.

Daily Mail

 

[Patooka]

Even the Labour Party have come to their senses;

Labour signalled today that it would no longer back lockdowns, claiming that the country now has to 'learn to live with Covid'. In an article for The Mail on Sunday, he wrote: 'We know that the coronavirus is here to stay but, as Labour's Shadow Health Secretary, I don't want to see our country in lockdown ever again.'
Last night, anti-lockdown Tory MPs welcomed Labour's 'conversion' to common sense but insisted they should never have voted for lockdowns as there was no 'clear evidence' from international comparisons that lockdowns worked.

Daily Mail

Herman Cain likes this post.

 

[Trausti]

Even the Labour Party have come to their senses;

Labour signalled today that it would no longer back lockdowns, claiming that the country now has to 'learn to live with Covid'. In an article for The Mail on Sunday, he wrote: 'We know that the coronavirus is here to stay but, as Labour's Shadow Health Secretary, I don't want to see our country in lockdown ever again.'
Last night, anti-lockdown Tory MPs welcomed Labour's 'conversion' to common sense but insisted they should never have voted for lockdowns as there was no 'clear evidence' from international comparisons that lockdowns worked.

Daily Mail

Herman Cain likes this post.

So does Sweden.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Even the Labour Party have come to their senses;

Labour signalled today that it would no longer back lockdowns, claiming that the country now has to 'learn to live with Covid'. In an article for The Mail on Sunday, he wrote: 'We know that the coronavirus is here to stay but, as Labour's Shadow Health Secretary, I don't want to see our country in lockdown ever again.'
Last night, anti-lockdown Tory MPs welcomed Labour's 'conversion' to common sense but insisted they should never have voted for lockdowns as there was no 'clear evidence' from international comparisons that lockdowns worked.

Daily Mail

Herman Cain likes this post.

So does Sweden.

It's just so odd that Sweden has such a higher rate of COVID compared to it's neighbors. It's almost as if they didn't do lockdowns or stress masks!! So bizarre...

 

[Harry Bosch]

Made a Trader Joe's run today. Went in unmasked but everyone inside was masked so I masked up too. Some local stores have signs encouraging mask wearing but there was nothing in TJ's. Different cut of people shop at TJ's.

Yes, it IS a different cut of people who shop there. Its not a mystery why they are self masking, its more a mystery of why they aren't wearing a full on hazmat suit. It's been years since I stepped into a Trader Joe's but I used to get their flyers in my mailbox all the time (not so much anymore for some reason). Unless they changed their marketing and product line, they made a big deal about their products being organic, and with no artificial flavors, colors, preservatives, etc because presumably trace amounts of synthetic pesticides on produce is hazardous and any artificial additives are certainly going to be risky, but a natural additive is going to be safe.

I think the most amusing of all is their anti-GMO attitude because "anything that's not "natural" that a bunch of scientists developed in a lab is not something I want in my body. There has not been sufficient testing and who knows what the long term effects are." And yet, the covid vaccines were genetically engineered by scientists in a lab, spent only a few months in testing and are directly injected into your bloodstream. I'd be curious to hear how people who have been historically anti-GMO have overcome the cognitive dissonance (or have they?) of receiving and advocating the genetically engineered covid vaccine. Are they now, hopefully, changing their negative stances on GMO foods?

Fair point regarding GMOs and most anti-GMO people are on the left. However, the anti vaccine movement really started on the left. It's just that it's taken over the right for some reason.

A little bit of a straw man regarding the haz mat suit though! Haz mat is needed. Covid is a viral disease. It's in our lungs. We all emit air particles as we talk and even breath. Wherever we go, our emitted cloud particles circle around us. The further out from someone you go, the fewer their particles that you are exposed to. A mask simply reduces the "particle cloud" that is around you. The stronger the quality of the mask, the smaller the particle cloud is around you. I work with an engineering firm that developed a better mask for the government. I watched their presentation using a special laser that would measure the particles emitting from an uncovered person; and then they measured the efficiency of various masks.

By the way, I meant to say above that a haz mat suit is not needed to contain covid. But a mask helps to decrease the range of the viral cloud that goes around us, lowering covid transmission.

 

[bilby]

Even the Labour Party have come to their senses;

Labour signalled today that it would no longer back lockdowns, claiming that the country now has to 'learn to live with Covid'. In an article for The Mail on Sunday, he wrote: 'We know that the coronavirus is here to stay but, as Labour's Shadow Health Secretary, I don't want to see our country in lockdown ever again.'
Last night, anti-lockdown Tory MPs welcomed Labour's 'conversion' to common sense but insisted they should never have voted for lockdowns as there was no 'clear evidence' from international comparisons that lockdowns worked.

Daily Mail

South Carolina population: 5.15million
Queensland population: 5.19million

Total South Carolina Covid deaths to 7 January 2022: 14,741
Total Queensland Covid deaths to 7 January 2022: 7

Queensland ended their lockdown at Christmas.

Between 8 January and 15 January, 22 Queenslanders died from Covid. That's more than three times as many in a week without lockdown as in two years with lockdown.

How much fucking clearer could the evidence be?

To claim that this very obvious evidence simply doesn't exist is beyond evil. The entire UK government needs to be jailed for genocide. They can share a prison with the Trump administration.

 

[TSwizzle]

Thousands take to the streets of Amsterdam in protest at government Covid policies;

Thousands of protesters packed Amsterdam's streets on Sunday in opposition to the government-imposed Covid measures and vaccination campaign as virus infections hit a new record. Authorities were granted stop and search powers at several locations across the city and scores of riot police vans patrolled neighbourhoods where the demonstrators marched with banners and yellow umbrellas. Regular anti-coronavirus protests are held across the country and Sunday's large gathering was joined by farmers who drove to the capital and parked tractors along the central Museum Square.

Daily Mail

 

[Metaphor]

Even the Labour Party have come to their senses;

Labour signalled today that it would no longer back lockdowns, claiming that the country now has to 'learn to live with Covid'. In an article for The Mail on Sunday, he wrote: 'We know that the coronavirus is here to stay but, as Labour's Shadow Health Secretary, I don't want to see our country in lockdown ever again.'
Last night, anti-lockdown Tory MPs welcomed Labour's 'conversion' to common sense but insisted they should never have voted for lockdowns as there was no 'clear evidence' from international comparisons that lockdowns worked.

Daily Mail

South Carolina population: 5.15million
Queensland population: 5.19million

Total South Carolina Covid deaths to 7 January 2022: 14,741
Total Queensland Covid deaths to 7 January 2022: 7

Queensland ended their lockdown at Christmas.

Between 8 January and 15 January, 22 Queenslanders died from Covid. That's more than three times as many in a week without lockdown as in two years with lockdown.

How much fucking clearer could the evidence be?

It would need to be a lot clearer than the above.

'Lockdown' length and severity are not the only variables that have changed since March 2020. Melbourne was the most locked-down city in the world, and during the time of that lockdown, it still had more cases than any other capital.

EDITED: Hell, Australia has had more COVID deaths after 90% of the adult population was vaccinated than before, but you wouldn't blame those deaths on getting vaccinated.

 

[Trausti]

Europe's unvaccinated minority are falling out of society

The increasingly vast divide between Europe's two populations means that "underground communities" of unvaccinated people have taken root.

www.cnn.com

I wish that this was possible in the US.

"We will not allow a tiny minority of unhinged extremists to impose its will on our entire society," Germany's new Chancellor, Olaf Scholz, said last month, targeting the violent fringes of the anti-vaccine movement.

Vaccine passports have been in place for months to gain entry to hospitality venues in much of the European Union. But as Delta and Omicron infections have surged and inoculation rollouts have stalled, some governments have gone further.

Austria imposed Europe's first lockdown for the unvaccinated and is scheduled to introduce mandatory shots from February 1.
Germany has banned unvaccinated people from most areas of public life, and the country's Health Minister, Karl Lauterbach, warned in December that: "without mandatory vaccination I do not see us managing further waves in the long term."

And France's President Emmanuel Macron last week told Le Parisien newspaper that he "really wants to piss off" the unvaccinated. "We're going to keep doing it until the end," he said. "This is the strategy."

 

[crazyfingers]

I almost never watch videos and never unless a reason to watch is described with a main point.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Europe's unvaccinated minority are falling out of society

The increasingly vast divide between Europe's two populations means that "underground communities" of unvaccinated people have taken root.

www.cnn.com

I wish that this was possible in the US.

"We will not allow a tiny minority of unhinged extremists to impose its will on our entire society," Germany's new Chancellor, Olaf Scholz, said last month, targeting the violent fringes of the anti-vaccine movement.

Vaccine passports have been in place for months to gain entry to hospitality venues in much of the European Union. But as Delta and Omicron infections have surged and inoculation rollouts have stalled, some governments have gone further.

Austria imposed Europe's first lockdown for the unvaccinated and is scheduled to introduce mandatory shots from February 1.
Germany has banned unvaccinated people from most areas of public life, and the country's Health Minister, Karl Lauterbach, warned in December that: "without mandatory vaccination I do not see us managing further waves in the long term."

And France's President Emmanuel Macron last week told Le Parisien newspaper that he "really wants to piss off" the unvaccinated. "We're going to keep doing it until the end," he said. "This is the strategy."

When not getting vaccinated goes wrong. Sorry... not a TikTok, YouTube, or Twitter video.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So in Ontario


Can you ridicule these people without making taking that sometimes justified invective and stop before you tarnish medicines that in the long term, like fluvoxamine, will work reasonably well?

I feel that we are lucky that not too many of the conspiracy peddlers went and got crazy about fluvoxamine or else self righteous hyper vaccine supporters would find ways to use that to keep it from being used.

Also monoclonal antibodies are not susceptible to political smearing, fortunately. There is a question as to the right ones for omicron, but in principle rabid anti-antivaxxers are not ridiculing their use.

Vaccine supporters aren't going to go after fluvoxamine because it's not bunk. It's your side that attacks things purely because of who proposed them.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I wouldn’t say repoman is attacking anything as much as seeding discord and distrust.

 

[Jarhyn]

So in Ontario


Can you ridicule these people without making taking that sometimes justified invective and stop before you tarnish medicines that in the long term, like fluvoxamine, will work reasonably well?

I feel that we are lucky that not too many of the conspiracy peddlers went and got crazy about fluvoxamine or else self righteous hyper vaccine supporters would find ways to use that to keep it from being used.

Also monoclonal antibodies are not susceptible to political smearing, fortunately. There is a question as to the right ones for omicron, but in principle rabid anti-antivaxxers are not ridiculing their use.

Vaccine supporters aren't going to go after fluvoxamine because it's not bunk. It's your side that attacks things purely because of who proposed them.

I'm about 50/50 on whether I expect the covidiots to attack fluvoxamine BECAUSE it isn't bunk.