Covid-19 miscellany

[Elixir]

It should be viewed as a civic duty to be vaccinated

Little kids don’t have a choice. Doesn’t matter if they have a fear of needles or if they “feel fine”. They get a whole raft of vaccines. Yeah, they sometimes cry, but they get over it in a few minutes.

But idiot crybaby “adults” have the option to be crybabies and idiots, to whine about their “freedum”, to go around endangering others and to loudly defend their cowardice with lies and conspiracy theories.

I swear, most of this so called “hesitancy” is just relic fear of shots. They probably don’t remember crying the last time they were vaccinated, and so don’t even realize why they are so viscerally opposed to getting the vaccine.

 

[Ruth Harris]

Because it's never been done before is a poor reason to not do something now.

This

Metaphor reminds me of just about every Baptist I have ever known: "But we have never done it that way before!" I can't help but wonder if he has Baptists in his background

Ruth

 

[repoman]

This is about balancing things

Why was a 26 year old healthy athlete getting a booster shot to begin with?

 

[Jarhyn]

Explain to me why COVID19 vaccination is so horrifically intrusive?

We've been through this a dozen times. If you cannot see how forcing a medical procedure on unconsenting adults is not 'horrifically intrusive', I cannot change your mind. You are simply somebody who is willing to use the State to impose her authoritarian will on others.

Honestly, the idea of the Government forcing medical procedures on people is about as abhorrent as people refusing vaccinations from a disease that has killed nearly 1 million people in the last couple of years.

World wide, it’s more than 5.5 million.

Other things I have no problem with:

Mandatory childhood vaccines with only medical exemptions. I saw a 5 year old leukemia patient nearly die from chicken pox. He couldn’t be vaccinated. Healthy kids can be vaccinated.

Speed limits
Seat belt limits
Safety laws that govern the manufacture of automobiles
Laws regulating the lead content of gasoline
Laws mandating environmental protection in automobiles, and any other manufacturing

FDA regulations mandating food and drug safety

Rules, regulations and standards regulating the building of homes and other building

And a bunch of other health and safety measures that help ensure the health and safety of all, including fuck witted libertarians who just care about freedom—theirs, not someone else’s.

See, this is where libertarians jump off the deep end. They want "self actualization" but they don't care about "mutually compatible". They want what they want at the necessary expense of others, even when others do not ever otherwise and certainly do not consent to play that game.

There is insanity in the double-standard, a contradiction.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So you support plague rats running around killing others and creating new and quite possibly more deadly variants.

"Running around killing others".

Maybe we can put the unvaccinated together in one place where they can't hurt the god-fearing. Maybe concentrate them together for logistical ease. I think we should withhold their property too because they are creating a burden on the righteous.

As in killing, fucking up supply chains, slowing down the economy, stuffing ERs, making life hell for Doctors, Nurses....

I mean, it was great people got to spend T-Day and Xmas 2020 together in the states, but was that really worth 250,000 people dying?

Unvaccinated people are not killing others. But I understand the rhetoric. If you want to demonise them and persecute them, it is helpful to accuse them of crimes.

There is no demonization. The above are the existing consequences of their actions. Many ERs in the US are stuffed with unvaccinated Covid-19 patients who are inhibiting access for health care by people suffering from other emergencies. Our supply chain and production are being inhibited by Covid related vacancies.

That isn't demonization, that is logistical truth. You really need to learn the difference between the two.

 

[crazyfingers]

In other words, the US has never forced a vaccine on its entire adult population before.

Can you name another situation in history where:

1 A pandemic has inundated an entire continent and the world
2 A vaccine exists
3 A huge share of the population refuses to vaccinate due to nonsense reasons thus creating the greatest threat of spread and mutation

So just because we were not in this situation before is no argument for what to do now.

 

[Keith&Co.]

And a bunch of other health and safety measures that help ensure the health and safety of all, including fuck witted libertarians who just care about freedom—theirs, not someone else’s.

Jacobson vs. Massachusetts, about the state coercing vaccination against smallpox, the decision said that the state is allowed to defend itself. And while the forced vaccination is a burden, one must suffer some burdens in order to live in a society. Individual liberty is not absolute.

 

[Jarhyn]

In other words, the US has never forced a vaccine on its entire adult population before.

Can you name another situation in history where:

1 A pandemic has inundated an entire continent and the world
2 A vaccine exists
3 A huge share of the population refuses to vaccinate due to nonsense reasons thus creating the greatest threat of spread and mutation

So just because we were not in this situation before is no argument for what to do now.

This is, fundamentally, the problem with conservative thought in general: it can't handle new situations well and it only handles old situations as badly as the first time it handled them when it first encountered it, which were new, and not handled well

 

[TSwizzle]

In other words, the US has never forced a vaccine on its entire adult population before.

Can you name another situation in history where:

1 A pandemic has inundated an entire continent and the world
2 A vaccine exists
3 A huge share of the population refuses to vaccinate due to nonsense reasons thus creating the greatest threat of spread and mutation

So just because we were not in this situation before is no argument for what to do now.

"A vaccine exists" ? Not hardly. The "vaccine" does not appear to be as effective as was originally touted. The "vaccine" is not stopping the spread. Vaccinated people are getting infected and these people are capable of spreading it to others. The "vaccine" is a bit of bust. However, it seems the majority of people (70%+?) are willing to go along with getting the vaccine on the premise that it keeps the symptoms from being severe.

So we get to the people who don't want to take a vaccine, a hodge podge of conspiracy theorists, religious nuts and informed people who feel they don't need a quarterly "vaccine" shot. These people are a small minority and pose no threat to anyone. The hyperbole of "plague rats" running around killing people is just online bs.

Mutations, so what? I'd be more worried about what idiocy escapes a lab or a wet market than what happens in the natural world.

So basically it boils down to left wing authoritarians getting their jollies from forcing people to do what the state wants. Lockdown, masks and vaccines.

It's over fella.

 

[Jarhyn]

I find it interesting people are more afraid of what researchers do I labs than what happens in the real world.

Botulism toxin came from something "in the real world".

The real world IS a lab, one without ethics boards or concerned researchers, nor walls, nor freezers, nor hazmat suits everywhere, and it has spawned horrors that we don't have the imagination to dream of ourselves.

 

[Toni]

This is about balancing things

Why was a 26 year old healthy athlete getting a booster shot to begin with?

Because getting COVID would have put her in much greater danger of long term adverse health effects.

 

[Toni]

In other words, the US has never forced a vaccine on its entire adult population before.

Can you name another situation in history where:

1 A pandemic has inundated an entire continent and the world
2 A vaccine exists
3 A huge share of the population refuses to vaccinate due to nonsense reasons thus creating the greatest threat of spread and mutation

So just because we were not in this situation before is no argument for what to do now.

"A vaccine exists" ? Not hardly. The "vaccine" does not appear to be as effective as was originally touted. The "vaccine" is not stopping the spread. Vaccinated people are getting infected and these people are capable of spreading it to others. The "vaccine" is a bit of bust. However, it seems the majority of people (70%+?) are willing to go along with getting the vaccine on the premise that it keeps the symptoms from being severe.

So we get to the people who don't want to take a vaccine, a hodge podge of conspiracy theorists, religious nuts and informed people who feel they don't need a quarterly "vaccine" shot. These people are a small minority and pose no threat to anyone. The hyperbole of "plague rats" running around killing people is just online bs.

Mutations, so what? I'd be more worried about what idiocy escapes a lab or a wet market than what happens in the natural world.

So basically it boils down to left wing authoritarians getting their jollies from forcing people to do what the state wants. Lockdown, masks and vaccines.

It's over fella.

Actually, the vaccines are highly effective. ALL vaccines have some degree of breakthrough infections. But vaccination mitigates the severity of the disease, whichever disease/vaccination you are talking about.

Unfortunately, there exist sufficient idiots who believed Trump and similar despots who claimed that vaccination was bad, and that COVID was just like the flu and would disappear in the summer and that you could cure it with bleach, ivermectin, and lights up your anus--while getting state of the art treatment for themselves when they became infected, and while continuing to hold parties and other super spreader events, sometimes killing colleagues (not that Trump would claim a black man as a colleague) and then secretly getting vaccinated themselves. In fact, they did such a good job that now, if they try to urge their throngs of admirers to get vaccinated, they get BOOED.

But all that COVID denial has been very effective at helping rapidly generate numerous variants which are better at evading the protection that vaccination gives.

All of which has been explained to you dozens and dozens of times.

In fact, you say you've been vaccinated yourself. So why are you crabbing about other people doing their best to protect themselves and anyone who comes into contact with them?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

In other words, the US has never forced a vaccine on its entire adult population before.

Can you name another situation in history where:

1 A pandemic has inundated an entire continent and the world
2 A vaccine exists
3 A huge share of the population refuses to vaccinate due to nonsense reasons thus creating the greatest threat of spread and mutation

So just because we were not in this situation before is no argument for what to do now.

"A vaccine exists" ? Not hardly. The "vaccine" does not appear to be as effective as was originally touted. The "vaccine" is not stopping the spread. Vaccinated people are getting infected and these people are capable of spreading it to others. The "vaccine" is a bit of bust. However, it seems the majority of people (70%+?) are willing to go along with getting the vaccine on the premise that it keeps the symptoms from being severe.

So we get to the people who don't want to take a vaccine, a hodge podge of conspiracy theorists, religious nuts and informed people who feel they don't need a quarterly "vaccine" shot. These people are a small minority and pose no threat to anyone. The hyperbole of "plague rats" running around killing people is just online bs.

Actually, plague rats got us Alpha. So, there is that.

Mutations, so what?

You keep your pantie bunching over immunity. The vaccine appeared to stop transmission of the original and alpha variants. So there is that. Then the plague rats helped spread the virus more, which helped spread it globally, and then we got a variant that had less trouble evading immunity.

 

[TSwizzle]

Actually, the vaccines are highly effective. ALL vaccines have some degree of breakthrough infections. But vaccination mitigates the severity of the disease, whichever disease/vaccination you are talking about.

They seem effective at keeping the symptoms down and therefore people out of the health system is what I said. What it is not so effective at is preventing the vaccinated from getting the virus and in turn spreading it. Which was a a big selling point for getting us back to normal. Are we back to normal? No.

Unfortunately, there exist sufficient idiots who believed Trump {snip}

And there are normal people who have determined for various reasons (young, fit, healthy, already been infected etc) that the vaccine is not necessary for them. Not everyone that declines the "vaccine" is the fruit loop you depict.

But all that COVID denial has been very effective at helping rapidly generate numerous variants which are better at evading the protection that vaccination gives.

"Covid denial"?

All of which has been explained to you dozens and dozens of times.

No, I have been given lectures about things I never said.

In fact, you say you've been vaccinated yourself. So why are you crabbing about other people doing their best to protect themselves and anyone who comes into contact with them?

I'm "crabbing" about government mandates that force people to do something that is not necessary.

 

[Toni]

Actually, the vaccines are highly effective. ALL vaccines have some degree of breakthrough infections. But vaccination mitigates the severity of the disease, whichever disease/vaccination you are talking about.

They seem effective at keeping the symptoms down and therefore people out of the health system is what I said. What it is not so effective at is preventing the vaccinated from getting the virus and in turn spreading it. Which was a a big selling point for getting us back to normal. Are we back to normal? No.

Unfortunately, there exist sufficient idiots who believed Trump {snip}

And there are normal people who have determined for various reasons (young, fit, healthy, already been infected etc) that the vaccine is not necessary for them. Not everyone that declines the "vaccine" is the fruit loop you depict.

But all that COVID denial has been very effective at helping rapidly generate numerous variants which are better at evading the protection that vaccination gives.

"Covid denial"?

All of which has been explained to you dozens and dozens of times.

No, I have been given lectures about things I never said.

In fact, you say you've been vaccinated yourself. So why are you crabbing about other people doing their best to protect themselves and anyone who comes into contact with them?

I'm "crabbing" about government mandates that force people to do something that is not necessary.

You are correct that the current vaccines are less effective at preventing OMICRON.

I understand that some people have decided that they are young enough and fit enough to 'not need' the vaccine. I know such who have died. I am grateful that an old friend who DID get COVID listened to her pastor's wife( who is a pharmacist) and got vaccinated as soon as she was able to after her recovery. People sometimes make stupid mistakes and it's really awful when it affects them adversely. I get it that some people can only learn through suffering. Unfortunately, their decisions do not affect only them, or only their families but all of us.

If vaccination isn't 'necessary' why are you vaccinated?

How is COVID19 vaccination different than MMR, and other vaccines that are routinely given to actual babies, not the overgrown think they're a cowboy kind? Seriously. HOW is this different?????

 

[TSwizzle]

You are correct that the current vaccines are less effective at preventing OMICRON.

Omicron, a virus that seems to be pretty much as harmless as the common cold and is the dominant strain? Do we really need to frog march people to the vaccine stations to take a "vaccine" against a virus that doesn't work against Omicron? Do we really need to sack people from their jobs for not taking a a vaccine that doesn't really work against he omicron strain?

I understand that some people have decided that they are young enough and fit enough to 'not need' the vaccine. {snip}

Then leave these people be. The vast majority of them will be fine.

If vaccination isn't 'necessary' why are you vaccinated?

Because I felt it was a good choice for me should I catch the virus it would keep the symptoms down. I don't believe my life would be threatened as I am in pretty good health but since the vaccine was available I thought I would take advantage of it. But there were some side effects from the vaccine that were pretty uncomfortable.

How is COVID19 vaccination different than MMR, and other vaccines that are routinely given to actual babies, not the overgrown think they're a cowboy kind? Seriously. HOW is this different?????

These vaccines have had a long history and tested and are proven effective. The covid "vaccine", not so much.

 

[Toni]

You are correct that the current vaccines are less effective at preventing OMICRON.

Omicron, a virus that seems to be pretty much as harmless as the common cold and is the dominant strain? Do we really need to frog march people to the vaccine stations to take a "vaccine" against a virus that doesn't work against Omicron? Do we really need to sack people from their jobs for not taking a a vaccine that doesn't really work against he omicron strain?

I understand that some people have decided that they are young enough and fit enough to 'not need' the vaccine. {snip}

Then leave these people be. The vast majority of them will be fine.

If vaccination isn't 'necessary' why are you vaccinated?

Because I felt it was a good choice for me should I catch the virus it would keep the symptoms down. I don't believe my life would be threatened as I am in pretty good health but since the vaccine was available I thought I would take advantage of it. But there were some side effects from the vaccine that were pretty uncomfortable.

How is COVID19 vaccination different than MMR, and other vaccines that are routinely given to actual babies, not the overgrown think they're a cowboy kind? Seriously. HOW is this different?????

These vaccines have had a long history and tested and are proven effective. The covid "vaccine", not so much.

Really? Omicron is as harmless as the common cold? How many people do you know hospitalized with the common cold?
Over 800 thousand DEATHS are nothing to you, I guess. Those are COVID deaths, and do not include those who die because they cannot get adequate care because hospitals and emergency rooms are full and are turning away ambulances. Not to mention those with long term negative health effects--that are severe. Of course, some of those deaths and some of those with long term damage are children but hey, it's not you so who cares, right?

As for 'leaving alone those who choose not to be vaccinated:' I would love to leave them alone. Let them stay home, out of stores and restaurants and movie theaters and other businesses. Hell, let's put them all in Idaho. I understand anything goes in Idaho.

As for the long history: Well, sure, some of those vaccines have had a long history. I am personally grateful that MY kids were able to be vaccinated against childhood illnesses that people of my generation suffered through and sometimes died from or had other serious long term or permanent ill effects. I nearly died of one myself. I was THRILLED to vaccinate my kids.

But go ahead and let's examine this history of COVID19 vaccines:

Timeline of the COVID-19 vaccine development

Each year, millions of vaccines to prevent infectious diseases are given to infants, children, adolescents and adults — and it’s critical that they are safe and effective. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) work together through an...

www.bjc.org

The tangled history of mRNA vaccines

Hundreds of scientists had worked on mRNA vaccines for decades before the coronavirus pandemic brought a breakthrough.

www.nature.com

Oh, and let's look at Hep B vaccinations: https://ftp.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/hepatitis-and-hepatitis-b

mRNA vaccines are not nearly as 'new' as you seem to think they are. And they are not 'experimental.'

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

And a bunch of other health and safety measures that help ensure the health and safety of all, including fuck witted libertarians who just care about freedom—theirs, not someone else’s.

The more I experience their gibberish the more apparent it becomes they are paranoid. They sure ain't out to protect anyone's freeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom.

 

[TSwizzle]

Really? Omicron is as harmless as the common cold?{snip}

For the vast majority of people that contract it, yes. For some people it is more serious but there's not much can be done about that.

As for 'leaving alone those who choose not to be vaccinated:' I would love to leave them alone. Let them stay home, out of stores and restaurants and movie theaters and other businesses. Hell, let's put them all in Idaho. I understand anything goes in Idaho.

Nah, you stay home if you are worried about it. Besides, you are vaccinated right? You wear a mask right? So you're good.

Also, be aware that vaccinated people do contract the virus and can spread it. It is obvious to me that you bang on about the unvaccinated because you have an authoritarian streak.

mRNA vaccines are not nearly as 'new' as you seem to think they are. And they are not 'experimental.'

Has the FDA approved this covid vaccine yet or is it still being used under emergency rules? I can't remember.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

And a bunch of other health and safety measures that help ensure the health and safety of all, including fuck witted libertarians who just care about freedom—theirs, not someone else’s.

The more I experience their gibberish the more apparent it becomes they are paranoid. They sure ain't out to protect anyone's freeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom.

Yeah, masks / distance / vaccines are crazy... "left wing authoritarians getting their jollies from forcing people to do what the state wants" is totally not paranoid.