Covid-19 miscellany

[barbos]

link

Seychelles isn't providing a happy narrative for either the Chinese vaccine and/or AstraZenica.vaccine.
That works to about 50% benefit. Of course, if one of the vaccinations is failing compared to the other, it is much lower than 50%.

"Normal", you mean "not as advertised". There is currently no breakdown on who was vaccinated with what and still got infected.

If there is any silver lining, this is great news for Pfizer, which provided vaccines for Israel.

Scientists say breakthrough infections are normal because no vaccine is 100% effective. But the experience in Seychelles stands in stark contrast to Israel, which has the second-highest vaccination coverage in the world and has managed to beat back the virus. A study has shown that the Pfizer vaccine that Israel used is 94% effective at preventing transmission. On Wednesday, the number of daily new confirmed COVID-19 cases per 1 million people in Seychelles stood at 2,613.38, compared to 5.55 in Israel, according to The World In Data project.

But Seychelles and WHO need to find out what vaccine isn't working at transmission, because preventing transmissions is crucial! Yes, we save lives short term regardless, if the vaccine mitigates the symptoms, but more people infected means more mutations. So if the vaccine isn't stopping transmission, those with that vaccine need masks still.

AstraZeneca worked in GB, so it must be Chinese.
Meanwhile Sputnik V worked well in San Marino.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

With vaccination rates at 40%, American states are kind of giving up on the concept of herd immunity and are moving to open up. Gov. Dewine said it was up to personality responsibility. The same responsibility that lead to a quarter million dead Americans over the T-Day to New Years holiday run.

So the US will be going with the least absolutely necessary to be "responsible" route. It is depressing.

 

[TomC]

[1] Gut

Um...
Wut?

I don't know enough about this to discuss anything but personal anecdotes.
But that made no sense to me.
Tom

Are you talking to me or to Jimmy Higgins?
I merely reported what doctors say and what DOES make sense to me.
Old people do tend to have lesser reaction to vaccine and the reason IS in fact what I said it is.

Higgins, that's why I quoted him.
Tom

 

[TSwizzle]

New York Times rips in to the CDC;

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is finally catching up to the science. For months, research about Covid-19 has pointed to two encouraging patterns. First, the underlying virus that causes Covid rarely spreads outdoors. Second — and even more important — fully vaccinated people are at virtually no risk of serious disease and only a minuscule risk of spreading the virus to others. But the C.D.C., which has long been a cautious agency, has been unwilling to highlight these facts. It has instead focused on tiny risks — risks that are smaller than those from, say, taking a car trip.

etc..

NYT

Those of us that actually "follow the science and data" already knew this but authoritarians hate science and data.

SO yeah, I'm not wearing a fucking mask !

 

[Elixir]

With vaccination rates at 40%, American states are kind of giving up on the concept of herd immunity and are moving to open up. Gov. Dewine said it was up to personality responsibility. The same responsibility that lead to a quarter million dead Americans over the T-Day to New Years holiday run.

So the US will be going with the least absolutely necessary to be "responsible" route. It is depressing.

The most reasonable, and especially the most vulnerable among them, are protected. That should prevent any future surge in cases from reaching approaching previous levels. I can almost read between the CDC lines:
"If those reality-denying Republican morons want to off themselves, there's not much we can do about it anyhow..."

 

[TV and credit cards]

New York Times rips in to the CDC;

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is finally catching up to the science. For months, research about Covid-19 has pointed to two encouraging patterns. First, the underlying virus that causes Covid rarely spreads outdoors. Second — and even more important — fully vaccinated people are at virtually no risk of serious disease and only a minuscule risk of spreading the virus to others. But the C.D.C., which has long been a cautious agency, has been unwilling to highlight these facts. It has instead focused on tiny risks — risks that are smaller than those from, say, taking a car trip.

etc..

NYT

Those of us that actually "follow the science and data" already knew this but authoritarians hate science and data.

SO yeah, I'm not wearing a fucking mask !

I can’t imagine why the Center for Disease Control would be overly cautious in information they put out to the general public.
Nope.
I got nothing.

 

[TomC]

New York Times rips in to the CDC;

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is finally catching up to the science. For months, research about Covid-19 has pointed to two encouraging patterns. First, the underlying virus that causes Covid rarely spreads outdoors. Second — and even more important — fully vaccinated people are at virtually no risk of serious disease and only a minuscule risk of spreading the virus to others. But the C.D.C., which has long been a cautious agency, has been unwilling to highlight these facts. It has instead focused on tiny risks — risks that are smaller than those from, say, taking a car trip.

etc..

NYT

Those of us that actually "follow the science and data" already knew this but authoritarians hate science and data.

SO yeah, I'm not wearing a fucking mask !

Are you fully vaccinated, or did you skip over that part?
Tom

 

[southernhybrid]

I don't know what to believe anymore, considering that 8 members of the Yankee baseball team, who were all fully vaccinated are now COVID positive. We've known that vaccinated people have a slight chance of getting COVID, but it's weird that so many who have been vaccinated are still getting COVID. Most will be asymptomatic, but still......

My husband said he's not ready to give up his mask. I haven't decided what to do yet, but about half of the locals here haven't been wearing masks for a long time. I do wish everyone would get vaccinated as that would certainly help. I have never understood those who object to vaccines or believe the stupid conspiracy theories about this particular vaccine. And, I also don't understand why some people become so outraged over wearing a mask. I think I'll wear one every year during flu season. I don't mind wearing one at all, and sometimes it's fun to be a bit annoymous. I've not had as much as a cold in over 10 years and I'd like to keep its that way.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/13/sports/baseball/gleyber-torres-yankees-covid.html

 

[repoman]

I don't know what to believe anymore, considering that 8 members of the Yankee baseball team, who were all fully vaccinated are now COVID positive. We've known that vaccinated people have a slight chance of getting COVID, but it's weird that so many who have been vaccinated are still getting COVID. Most will be asymptomatic, but still......

My husband said he's not ready to give up his mask. I haven't decided what to do yet, but about half of the locals here haven't been wearing masks for a long time. I do wish everyone would get vaccinated as that would certainly help. I have never understood those who object to vaccines or believe the stupid conspiracy theories about this particular vaccine. And, I also don't understand why some people become so outraged over wearing a mask. I think I'll wear one every year during flu season. I don't mind wearing one at all, and sometimes it's fun to be a bit annoymous. I've not had as much as a cold in over 10 years and I'd like to keep its that way.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/13/sports/baseball/gleyber-torres-yankees-covid.html

In the past before PCR and other advanced tests you only called it a "case" if they were sick. So going back to the standards of 40 years ago, how many "cases" have there been with the vaccinated Yankees and staff?


If we were to do PCR tests for all other vaccination campaigns of other viruses would the same be seen?

What are the CT values for these people? All well above at least 25?

Baseball people should understand this. They could have incredible balls and bats to get the amount of home runs through the roof, but they don't so they can compare old players to new. Well the medical technology now is incredible but have we reassessed what it actually means in context?

We can see smaller amounts of virus than ever before, that is great. But being frightened of our shadows because of that is not good. Where is the calm perspective?

Also, let's someone was infected and was truly sick in September and even got PCR proof of that with a CT value around 20-25. Then in March they were PCR negative, but now in May 8 months later they are positive with a CT of 38, are they sick with covid again?

 

[TSwizzle]

I can’t imagine why the Center for Disease Control would be overly cautious in information they put out to the general public.
Nope.
I got nothing.

The CDC wasn't being "overly cautious" they were deliberately misleading the public.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Yankees reportedly had J&J vaccine, which isn’t as good, but great enough if everyone who can, did get vaccinated.

The anti-vaxxers are really fucking things up. It was hard to respect Trump supporters. It is even harder now to not scorn anti-vaxxer, especially the partisan ant-vaxxers.

So we await the next bump from loss of natural immunity or the inevitable mutation that ruins everything.

We are supposed to get back to normal, but we’ll be having this fucking idiots everywhere indoors.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I can’t imagine why the Center for Disease Control would be overly cautious in information they put out to the general public.
Nope.
I got nothing.

The CDC wasn't being "overly cautious" they were deliberately misleading the public.

600,000 dead bodies speaks otherwise. You’ve been wrong about this since day one, and quite arrogantly about it as well.

 

[marc]

I don't know what to believe anymore, considering that 8 members of the Yankee baseball team, who were all fully vaccinated are now COVID positive. We've known that vaccinated people have a slight chance of getting COVID, but it's weird that so many who have been vaccinated are still getting COVID. Most will be asymptomatic, but still......

Well I think the chances of getting infected are in part dependent on how much of the virus you are exposed to. Sort of like how a phone might be water resistant, but if you drop it into a lake for an hour that resistance isn't going to protect it. You get a bunch of baseball players crowded into a locker room with one or more infected people, the chance of the spread go up.


We are vaccinated here, but a couple people in the house have to go into work where they will be exposed to a bunch of people, some of whom have ended up being infected. The frequent exposures and question of variant strains of virus means we haven't changed how we do things even after vaccination.

A year ago I had said I'd feel it is over when the state went two weeks without any new infections reported..... that seems a long way off....

 

[TomC]

I can’t imagine why the Center for Disease Control would be overly cautious in information they put out to the general public.
Nope.
I got nothing.

The CDC wasn't being "overly cautious" they were deliberately misleading the public.

That's a very strong accusation.
Got anything to back it up with, besides the claims of Trump the Birther? Got a way to explain hundreds of thousands of deaths and economic damage caused by his deliberate misleading of the public?
Tom

 

[Trausti]

I can’t imagine why the Center for Disease Control would be overly cautious in information they put out to the general public.
Nope.
I got nothing.

The CDC wasn't being "overly cautious" they were deliberately misleading the public.

That's a very strong accusation.
Got anything to back it up with, besides the claims of Trump the Birther? Got a way to explain hundreds of thousands of deaths and economic damage caused by his deliberate misleading of the public?
Tom

There was never any evidence to support significant risk of outdoor transmission, was there? The guidance to stay indoors away from fresh air and the sun was really stupid.

 

[TomC]

That's a very strong accusation.
Got anything to back it up with, besides the claims of Trump the Birther? Got a way to explain hundreds of thousands of deaths and economic damage caused by his deliberate misleading of the public?
Tom

There was never any evidence to support significant risk of outdoor transmission, was there? The guidance to stay indoors away from fresh air and the sun was really stupid.

There certainly was.

Before we knew how easily spread, under what circumstances, there were very good reasons for overly cautious recommendations. And even now, "outdoors" is a broad category. There's a huge difference between an hour in the woods alone and an hour at a crowded rally or on a busy sidewalk. Like I keep saying, it's about using good judgement.

Tom

ETA ~Perhaps you want to answer my question? How was the CDC deliberately misleading the public? ~
~Also, where was the guidance to stay inside?~

 

[Trausti]

That's a very strong accusation.
Got anything to back it up with, besides the claims of Trump the Birther? Got a way to explain hundreds of thousands of deaths and economic damage caused by his deliberate misleading of the public?
Tom

There was never any evidence to support significant risk of outdoor transmission, was there? The guidance to stay indoors away from fresh air and the sun was really stupid.

There certainly was.

Before we knew how easily spread, under what circumstances, there were very good reasons for overly cautious recommendations. And even now, "outdoors" is a broad category. There's a huge difference between an hour in the woods alone and an hour at a crowded rally or on a busy sidewalk. Like I keep saying, it's about using good judgement.

Tom

ETA ~Perhaps you want to answer my question? How was the CDC deliberately misleading the public? ~
~Also, where was the guidance to stay inside?~

New York Times calls out CDC for 'misleading' data on outdoor COVID transmission

 

[Trausti]

It’s just baffling to see kids playing at the park or beach wearing masks. They got psycho parents. My kids: no masks. Covid is the disease of the unfit and unhealthy. Lose a few pounds, cut the carbs, get some exercise and sun. You’ll be okay.

 

[TomC]

There certainly was.

Before we knew how easily spread, under what circumstances, there were very good reasons for overly cautious recommendations. And even now, "outdoors" is a broad category. There's a huge difference between an hour in the woods alone and an hour at a crowded rally or on a busy sidewalk. Like I keep saying, it's about using good judgement.

Tom

ETA ~Perhaps you want to answer my question? How was the CDC deliberately misleading the public? ~
~Also, where was the guidance to stay inside?~

New York Times calls out CDC for 'misleading' data on outdoor COVID transmission

Seriously?
You posted a link to Fox opinions about an opinion in the NYT about the opinions of the CDC?

Sorry, I didn't pay much attention to your mainstream media sources.
Tom

 

[Trausti]

There certainly was.

Before we knew how easily spread, under what circumstances, there were very good reasons for overly cautious recommendations. And even now, "outdoors" is a broad category. There's a huge difference between an hour in the woods alone and an hour at a crowded rally or on a busy sidewalk. Like I keep saying, it's about using good judgement.

Tom

ETA ~Perhaps you want to answer my question? How was the CDC deliberately misleading the public? ~
~Also, where was the guidance to stay inside?~

New York Times calls out CDC for 'misleading' data on outdoor COVID transmission

Seriously?
You posted a link to Fox opinions about an opinion in the NYT about the opinions of the CDC?

Sorry, I didn't pay much attention to your mainstream media sources.
Tom

Well, yeah. The NYT has lost a lot of its credibility. But whatcha gonna do?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/11/briefing/outdoor-covid-transmission-cdc-number.html