Daunte Wright shot with Taser. And by "taser," I mean, "Gun."

[TomC]

So, to make my point here, you are proposing that police be armed I "the vast majority" of situations where you admit their job is NOT dangerous, exposing 99.9...% of their interactions to an armed, jumpy pussy because some people are insane.

No.
Tom

Well, it really looks like that to me.

I'm sorry that I cannot get my nuanced views across. I am trying.

I see a ton of problems, and I don't see the humanity of the cops as the biggest one. But they are "low hanging fruit", easy to attack with an edited video that goes viral, or carefully selected statistics.

But honestly, I don't think that is going to work out well for society as a whole and young black men in particular.

YBM are in more danger of violent crime than most people. The cops are their best protection. BLM might convince them that the police are their enemies, and convince police to avoid messing with YBM. I think the big victims will be the YBM who aren't like Floyd or Wright.

Tom

 

[Jarhyn]

Well, it really looks like that to me.

I'm sorry that I cannot get my nuanced views across. I am trying.

I see a ton of problems, and I don't see the humanity of the cops as the biggest one. But they are "low hanging fruit", easy to attack with an edited video that goes viral, or carefully selected statistics.

But honestly, I don't think that is going to work out well for society as a whole and young black men in particular.

YBM are in more danger of violent crime than most people. The cops are their best protection. BLM might convince them that the police are their enemies, and convince police to avoid messing with YBM. I think the big victims will be the YBM who aren't like Floyd or Wright.

Tom

Cops do not protect young black men. Especially not armed cops. The best way to protect young black men is to stop forcing them into the legal system, stop criminalizing the drugs they enjoy, stop depriving them of a quality education, and STOP FUCKING SHOOTING THEM.

The last thing a situation with too much violence needs is more weapons thrown into the mix.

 

[Trausti]

Well, it really looks like that to me.

I'm sorry that I cannot get my nuanced views across. I am trying.

I see a ton of problems, and I don't see the humanity of the cops as the biggest one. But they are "low hanging fruit", easy to attack with an edited video that goes viral, or carefully selected statistics.

But honestly, I don't think that is going to work out well for society as a whole and young black men in particular.

YBM are in more danger of violent crime than most people. The cops are their best protection. BLM might convince them that the police are their enemies, and convince police to avoid messing with YBM. I think the big victims will be the YBM who aren't like Floyd or Wright.

Tom

Cops do not protect young black men. Especially not armed cops. The best way to protect young black men is to stop forcing them into the legal system, stop criminalizing the drugs they enjoy, stop depriving them of a quality education, and STOP FUCKING SHOOTING THEM.

The last thing a situation with too much violence needs is more weapons thrown into the mix.

It's pretty clear that when the cops stop policing the black male homicide rate goes up.

https://www.statista.com/chart/23905/change-in-homicides-in-us-cities/

 

[Trausti]

Amid pandemic, crime dropped in many U.S. cities, but not all

Did any national anti-police campaign occur after this May 19, 2020, WaPo article? Something to look at, I'd suppose.

 

[TomC]

Cops do not protect young black men.

Unfortunately, you probably believe this.
Statistics concerning who gets killed, and who kills them, don't match your narrative. So you'll ignore them.

Too bad for young black men.

Tell me again. Why do think that young black men are killed more often by the police than other YBM? Not just by a little, YBM are hugely more violent than the police. The information is out there, if you care to know.

It doesn't work for your narrative, but the truth doesn't change when you prefer not to believe it.
Tom

 

[ZiprHead]

2. Stopping people for expired registration is a legit stop. It has nothing to do with "profiling".

Was it an expired registration? I thought it was a brand new vehicle.

 

[TomC]

2. Stopping people for expired registration is a legit stop. It has nothing to do with "profiling".

Was it an expired registration? I thought it was a brand new vehicle.

They aren't mutually exclusive.
According to NBC

The man, Daunte Wright, 20, who died Sunday after a run-in with police in a suburb of Minneapolis, was driving an SUV with expired license plates,

But a new vehicle comes with plates that expire in a few days.

Don't know if that's what happened. There's tons of fake news concerning episodes like this.
Tom

 

[Gospel]

Cops do not protect young black men.

Unfortunately, you probably believe this.
Statistics concerning who gets killed, and who kills them, don't match your narrative. So you'll ignore them.

Too bad for young black men.

Tell me again. Why do think that young black men are killed more often by the police than other YBM? Not just by a little, YBM are hugely more violent than the police. The information is out there, if you care to know.

It doesn't work for your narrative, but the truth doesn't change when you prefer not to believe it.
Tom

Thanks for bringing this up. The black community has been struggling with this for years. We're open to solutions so if you have any it's welcome. FYI - We're already aware that parenting is important (working on it), black-on-black crime is an issue (still working on that), poverty is a major player (working on this), Improve the quality of education (In the works), and more. We've made great strides, but folks may not notice if their memory only goes as far back as the Trump Administration. Again, are you gonna open the barn doors or let the horses burn while screaming fire? Solutions.

 

[ZiprHead]

They aren't mutually exclusive.
According to NBC

The man, Daunte Wright, 20, who died Sunday after a run-in with police in a suburb of Minneapolis, was driving an SUV with expired license plates,

But a new vehicle comes with plates that expire in a few days.

Don't know if that's what happened. There's tons of fake news concerning episodes like this.
Tom

There's people driving around here on expired plates and no plates. It takes two months to get an appointment at the SOS because of covid. The police here know this and turn the other way.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Cops do not protect young black men. Especially not armed cops. The best way to protect young black men is to stop forcing them into the legal system, stop criminalizing the drugs they enjoy, stop depriving them of a quality education, and STOP FUCKING SHOOTING THEM.

The last thing a situation with too much violence needs is more weapons thrown into the mix.

Nice fantasy but that's not what happens. BLM protests = fewer police shootings = more criminal shootings. BLM is actually increasing the rate that YBM die.

I do agree on the drugs. Other crime, though, I see no reason to give them a pass on.

Quality education--blame the YBM for that. Schools are a reflection of the students, not the cause. Inner city schools are bad because the parents don't care and thus the teachers have no way to make the kids behave.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

They aren't mutually exclusive.
According to NBC

The man, Daunte Wright, 20, who died Sunday after a run-in with police in a suburb of Minneapolis, was driving an SUV with expired license plates,

But a new vehicle comes with plates that expire in a few days.

Don't know if that's what happened. There's tons of fake news concerning episodes like this.
Tom

Depends on where. I think it's something like a month here.

 

[Toni]

I wanted to share something with everyone here about policing in Minnesota, for a little compare/contrast. This is for all of you out there who believe that the police officer had no choice but to fire a weapon (taser that turned out to be a gun) and kill Daunte Wright:

https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2021...hits-him-with-hammer-after-face-mask-dispute/

"Hutchinson police say a 61-year-old man is in custody after allegedly dragging an officer with his vehicle while simultaneously striking him with a hammer following a dispute about face masks at a Menards store."

Oh, you will say: there was no warrant out on this white man! First of all, we don't know that. Secondly, he assaulted a store employee with a weapon, fled police, assaulted police with a deadly weapon. Oh, he is white, so, I guess it's all good.

Note: I am not complaining that this man was taken into custody without injury to himself. That is how it should be. This is how it should have been for Daunte Wright. There absolutely was a choice about whether or not to pull any kind of weapon at all, much less the wrong weapon. THIS is why people march, protest, riot. Because police too often make poor choices that cost the lives of unarmed black men.

 

[TV and credit cards]

I wanted to share something with everyone here about policing in Minnesota, for a little compare/contrast. This is for all of you out there who believe that the police officer had no choice but to fire a weapon (taser that turned out to be a gun) and kill Daunte Wright:

https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2021...hits-him-with-hammer-after-face-mask-dispute/

"Hutchinson police say a 61-year-old man is in custody after allegedly dragging an officer with his vehicle while simultaneously striking him with a hammer following a dispute about face masks at a Menards store."

Oh, you will say: there was no warrant out on this white man! First of all, we don't know that. Secondly, he assaulted a store employee with a weapon, fled police, assaulted police with a deadly weapon. Oh, he is white, so, I guess it's all good.

Note: I am not complaining that this man was taken into custody without injury to himself. That is how it should be. This is how it should have been for Daunte Wright. There absolutely was a choice about whether or not to pull any kind of weapon at all, much less the wrong weapon. THIS is why people march, protest, riot. Because police too often make poor choices that cost the lives of unarmed black men.

Kim Potter did not make a poor choice. She made a mistake.

If you are attacked with a hammer and you have a gun on your hip, you can and should shoot the individual in the chest.

 

[Toni]

I wanted to share something with everyone here about policing in Minnesota, for a little compare/contrast. This is for all of you out there who believe that the police officer had no choice but to fire a weapon (taser that turned out to be a gun) and kill Daunte Wright:

https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2021...hits-him-with-hammer-after-face-mask-dispute/

"Hutchinson police say a 61-year-old man is in custody after allegedly dragging an officer with his vehicle while simultaneously striking him with a hammer following a dispute about face masks at a Menards store."

Oh, you will say: there was no warrant out on this white man! First of all, we don't know that. Secondly, he assaulted a store employee with a weapon, fled police, assaulted police with a deadly weapon. Oh, he is white, so, I guess it's all good.

Note: I am not complaining that this man was taken into custody without injury to himself. That is how it should be. This is how it should have been for Daunte Wright. There absolutely was a choice about whether or not to pull any kind of weapon at all, much less the wrong weapon. THIS is why people march, protest, riot. Because police too often make poor choices that cost the lives of unarmed black men.

Kim Potter did not make a poor choice. She made a mistake.

If you are attacked with a hammer and you have a gun on your hip, you can and should shoot the individual in the chest.

By your reasoning, the real issue is the cops aren't killing enough white people? The world would be better off if that guy was dead instead of in jail? The cop whose head was hit by the hammer would feel better if he had killed the guy? Or just armchair cowboys like yourself who think it's no biggie to shoot someone dead.


FWIW, IMO, Kim Potter made a poor choice AND made a mistake. She was NOT compelled to use any type of weapon on Wright. That was her poor choice. That the weapon she used was not a taser but a gun was her mistake.

I seriously do not understand what is wrong with people.

 

[Gospel]

I wanted to share something with everyone here about policing in Minnesota, for a little compare/contrast. This is for all of you out there who believe that the police officer had no choice but to fire a weapon (taser that turned out to be a gun) and kill Daunte Wright:

https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2021...hits-him-with-hammer-after-face-mask-dispute/

"Hutchinson police say a 61-year-old man is in custody after allegedly dragging an officer with his vehicle while simultaneously striking him with a hammer following a dispute about face masks at a Menards store."

Oh, you will say: there was no warrant out on this white man! First of all, we don't know that. Secondly, he assaulted a store employee with a weapon, fled police, assaulted police with a deadly weapon. Oh, he is white, so, I guess it's all good.

Note: I am not complaining that this man was taken into custody without injury to himself. That is how it should be. This is how it should have been for Daunte Wright. There absolutely was a choice about whether or not to pull any kind of weapon at all, much less the wrong weapon. THIS is why people march, protest, riot. Because police too often make poor choices that cost the lives of unarmed black men.

Kim Potter did not make a poor choice. She made a mistake.

If you are attacked with a hammer and you have a gun on your hip, you can and should shoot the individual in the chest.

I don't think Toni is debating whether or not officers should or shouldn't shoot the hammer and police dragging anti-masker. I think Toni brought that case up to highlight the difference in treatment one perp got verse another and question why the difference. Yes, she made a mistake; that is the official report. What caused her to make that mistake? I mean if officers can be hit with a hammer while being driven down the street dangling for the window of a vehicle and still take the perp in without killing them, why can't a black dude simply try to run away?

 

[Swammerdami]

Those who can do so under extreme threat are rare indeed, and will not be found working in most municipal police departments. Most of those willing to apply for police jobs and are able to operate with detached cool under extreme pressure, are sociopaths like Derek Chauvin.

This is probably why Chauvin was still working after 17+ citations for excessive use of force.

He did the job of protecting us non-violent people from the George Floyds of the world effectively. Probably takes a sociopath to stop a sociopath.

Of course, "sociopath" isn't a binary term. Some people are more sociopathic than others. Chauvin and Floyd were both pretty high on that scale.

I sincerely doubt that the USA is going to become a better place to live by getting rid of the sociopaths like Chauvin and protecting the rest of them, like Floyd and Wright.
Tom

Are we talking about the same  George Floyd ?

In a video addressing the youth in his neighborhood, Floyd reminds his audience that he has his own "shortcomings" and "flaws" and that he isn't better than anyone else, but also expresses his disdain for the violence that was taking place in the community, and advises his neighbors to put down their weapons and remember that they are loved by him and God.

... After Floyd's release [from 3 years in prison], he became more involved with Resurrection Houston, a Christian church and ministry, where he mentored young men and posted anti-violence videos to social media. He delivered meals to senior citizens and volunteered with other projects, such as the Angel By Nature Foundation, a charity founded by rapper Trae tha Truth. Later he became involved with a ministry that brought men from the Third Ward to Minnesota in a church-work program with drug rehabilitation and job placement services. A friend of Floyd acknowledged that Floyd "had made some mistakes that cost him some years of his life," but that he had been turning his life around through religion.
...
"He was not a violent person. I had never seen him be violent in high school or ever heard about him being violent after that."

Did Floyd put his hands in his pockets and smirk while killing a man?
You've somehow taken tiny pieces of what you know about George Floyd and assembled them into the picture of a sociopath. Which pieces played a role? Floyd is large and swarthy; is that part of it?

 

[Toni]

Kim Potter did not make a poor choice. She made a mistake.

If you are attacked with a hammer and you have a gun on your hip, you can and should shoot the individual in the chest.

I don't think Toni is debating whether or not officers should or shouldn't shoot the hammer and police dragging anti-masker. I think Toni brought that case up to highlight the difference in treatment one perp got verse another and question why the difference. Yes, she made a mistake; that is the official report. What caused her to make that mistake? I mean if officers can be hit with a hammer while being driven down the street dangling for the window of a vehicle and still take the perp in without killing them, why can't a black dude simply try to run away?

Exactly: it would have been understandable if the police officer who was struck by the hammer and dragged (or others responding) had shot the suspect. Justifiable, even.

Fortunately, the Hutchinson police officer found another way to subdue and to bring in the suspect who had just assaulted a store clerk as well as a police officer.

All of those armchair cowboys who think shooting someone is a perfectly reasonable way to deal with someone who does not do exactly as they are commanded fail to consider how shooting a suspect affects the officer, the department, the community. Shooting people is so bad that it is against the law in most cases. Because killing people in real life is much, much different than killing people on a screen and carries considerably more consequences.

 

[TomC]

She was NOT compelled to use any type of weapon on Wright. That was her poor choice.

I can't imagine why you think this.
The cops were dealing with a violent felon known to have had illegal weapons. He broke away and dove into his car. The only reasonable assumption was that he was going for a gun to shoot at the cops.

A taser would have worked and it's what she should have used. Everyone agrees with that. But even without his record, letting him get back in his car where he might have anything, would be a serious mistake.
Tom

 

[Gospel]

She was NOT compelled to use any type of weapon on Wright. That was her poor choice.

I can't imagine why you think this.
The cops were dealing with a violent felon known to have had illegal weapons. He broke away and dove into his car. The only reasonable assumption was that he was going for a gun to shoot at the cops.

A taser would have worked and it's what she should have used. Everyone agrees with that. But even without his record, letting him get back in his car where he might have anything, would be a serious mistake.
Tom

If she was concerned about a gun going for a taser would be the wrong hip to reach for.

 

[Toni]

She was NOT compelled to use any type of weapon on Wright. That was her poor choice.

I can't imagine why you think this.
The cops were dealing with a violent felon known to have had illegal weapons. He broke away and dove into his car. The only reasonable assumption was that he was going for a gun to shoot at the cops.

A taser would have worked and it's what she should have used. Everyone agrees with that. But even without his record, letting him get back in his car where he might have anything, would be a serious mistake.
Tom

1, He was NOT a 'violent felon.' He had been convicted of ZERO charges. ZERO. He was not 'known' to have illegal weapons. There were many possibilities for his actions after he broke away, the most obvious one being that he would drive away. Were there any weapons found in his car? I believe not.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/daunte-wright-record/


2. The police in Hutchinson managed to not kill a man who had just assaulted someone in a Menards store, who was attempting to flee police, who STRUCK A POLICE OFFICER IN THE HEAD WITH A HAMMER and DROVE AWAY WITH THE OFFICER STUCK IN THE CAR DRAGGING THE OFFICER.

Clearly the Hutchinson man was violent and willing to attack police officers and in fact, armed with a hammer and also used his car to drag a police officer.

Yet, the police managed to NOT KILL HIM. Even though, even I think that shooting the man in that case would have been justified because he had struck a police officer in the head with a hammer and was dragging a police officer in his car as he tried to escape. Maybe they didn't shoot him because he was white. Maybe because they had better training. But whatever the reason is: Police manage to apprehend people all the time without killing them. Even people who had just murdered 8 people, even people who were actually attacking a police officer by hitting him in the head with a hammer.