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Daunte Wright shot with Taser. And by "taser," I mean, "Gun."

You've somehow taken tiny pieces of what you know about George Floyd and assembled them into the picture of a sociopath. Which pieces played a role?
"Tiny pieces"?
It's the violent crime, the heavy drugs, the job as a bouncer. That sort of thing.

Things that Chauvin probably knew about.
Floyd is large and swarthy; is that part of it?
Large, yes.
Swarthy, no.

Believe it or not but not all wypepo are racist. Even if we disagree with you about something.
Tom
 
You've somehow taken tiny pieces of what you know about George Floyd and assembled them into the picture of a sociopath. Which pieces played a role?
"Tiny pieces"?
It's the violent crime, the heavy drugs, the job as a bouncer. That sort of thing.

Things that Chauvin probably knew about.
Floyd is large and swarthy; is that part of it?
Large, yes.
Swarthy, no.

Believe it or not but not all wypepo are racist. Even if we disagree with you about something.
Tom

You mean, the bouncer job like the one Chauvin had, at the exact same place? The one where Chauvin was also accused of being too violent?

As for Floyd's earlier charges and conviction, he served his sentence.
 
"Tiny pieces"?
It's the violent crime, the heavy drugs, the job as a bouncer. That sort of thing.

Things that Chauvin probably knew about.

Large, yes.
Swarthy, no.

Believe it or not but not all wypepo are racist. Even if we disagree with you about something.
Tom

You mean, the bouncer job like the one Chauvin had, at the exact same place? The one where Chauvin was also accused of being too violent?

As for Floyd's earlier charges and conviction, he served his sentence.

You do understand that I'm not claiming Chauvin is innocent, right?

That's what seems impossible when this sort of issue gets discussed. Nuances get lost and everything gets turned black and white. Floyd's contributions to his own demise get ignored and and it's all about Chauvin.
Tom
 
Floyd's contributions to his own demise get ignored and and it's all about Chauvin.
Tom

That's because they are irrelevant to the legality of his murder. Under US law, you aren't required to be a "good person" in order to earn the right to not be executed in the street.
 
Floyd's contributions to his own demise get ignored and and it's all about Chauvin.
Tom

That's because they are irrelevant to the legality of his murder. Under US law, you aren't required to be a "good person" in order to earn the right to not be executed in the street.

He wasn't executed. Nor do I think he was murdered.
Your's is exactly the kind of response I'm referring to.

The big difference between our opinions is that you are willing to form firm opinions based on sketchy information and I am not.
Tom
 
"Tiny pieces"?
It's the violent crime, the heavy drugs, the job as a bouncer. That sort of thing.

Things that Chauvin probably knew about.

Large, yes.
Swarthy, no.

Believe it or not but not all wypepo are racist. Even if we disagree with you about something.
Tom

You mean, the bouncer job like the one Chauvin had, at the exact same place? The one where Chauvin was also accused of being too violent?

As for Floyd's earlier charges and conviction, he served his sentence.

You do understand that I'm not claiming Chauvin is innocent, right?

That's what seems impossible when this sort of issue gets discussed. Nuances get lost and everything gets turned black and white. Floyd's contributions to his own demise get ignored and and it's all about Chauvin.
Tom

I doubt there are any white people who do not believe that it is best to not resist arrest.
 
You do understand that I'm not claiming Chauvin is innocent, right?

That's what seems impossible when this sort of issue gets discussed. Nuances get lost and everything gets turned black and white. Floyd's contributions to his own demise get ignored and and it's all about Chauvin.
Tom

I doubt there are any white people who do not believe that it is best to not resist arrest.

Ask all the white people that have. Most recently you can ask the one who attacked an officer with a hammer and proceeded to drive down the street with the officer dangling from his window.
 
Floyd's contributions to his own demise get ignored and and it's all about Chauvin.
Tom

That's because they are irrelevant to the legality of his murder. Under US law, you aren't required to be a "good person" in order to earn the right to not be executed in the street.

He wasn't executed. Nor do I think he was murdered.
Your's is exactly the kind of response I'm referring to.

The big difference between our opinions is that you are willing to form firm opinions based on sketchy information and I am not.
Tom

What ‘sketchy’ information is that? Sworn expert testimony given in open court? Video of the killing of George Floyd?
 
You do understand that I'm not claiming Chauvin is innocent, right?

That's what seems impossible when this sort of issue gets discussed. Nuances get lost and everything gets turned black and white. Floyd's contributions to his own demise get ignored and and it's all about Chauvin.
Tom

I doubt there are any white people who do not believe that it is best to not resist arrest.

Ask all the white people that have. Most recently you can ask the one who attacked an officer with a hammer and proceeded to drive down the street with the officer dangling from his window.

Yep.
 
You do understand that I'm not claiming Chauvin is innocent, right?

That's what seems impossible when this sort of issue gets discussed. Nuances get lost and everything gets turned black and white. Floyd's contributions to his own demise get ignored and and it's all about Chauvin.
Tom

I doubt there are any white people who do not believe that it is best to not resist arrest.

"I believe that most white people realize that it is best not to resist arrest."
Is that a reasonable reiteration of your statement, without all the self cancelling negatives?


I think it's also true of black people. Most black people cooperate with the cops. And don't have problems like Wright or Floyd or Brown or.....
Tom
 
Floyd's contributions to his own demise get ignored and and it's all about Chauvin.
Tom

That's because they are irrelevant to the legality of his murder. Under US law, you aren't required to be a "good person" in order to earn the right to not be executed in the street.

He wasn't executed. Nor do I think he was murdered.
Your's is exactly the kind of response I'm referring to.

The big difference between our opinions is that you are willing to form firm opinions based on sketchy information and I am not.
Tom

My opinions aren't based on "sketchy information", the law is the law and even the police are subject to follow it. Police are not allowed to kill people because they committted a crime in the past. So, Floyd's past crimes have no bearing whatsoever on the legality of his killing. If you think his murder was justified based on things that happened at the scene of said murder, fine. But dragging up events of the past for which a sentence was already served is a skeevy rhetorical tactic that has no relevance in the context of the present trial. And the fact that doing so echoes ugly racial stereotyping, it's even skeevier.

And of course it's all about Chauvin, it's his trial. Floyd is dead.
 
Ask all the white people that have. Most recently you can ask the one who attacked an officer with a hammer and proceeded to drive down the street with the officer dangling from his window.

Yep.

[FBVIDEO]<iframe src="https://www.facebook.com/plugins/video.php?height=476&href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FOccupyDemocrats%2Fvideos%2F317087959759907%2F&show_text=false&width=476" width="476" height="476" style="border:none;overflow:hidden" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen="true" allow="autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowFullScreen="true"></iframe>[/FBVIDEO]..
 
Looks like nobody was in fear of their life. Not even the perpetrator.

Edit: That would have been a great time to leap on the hood of the car like some Hollywood hero and start firing shots through the windshield.
 
She was NOT compelled to use any type of weapon on Wright. That was her poor choice.

I can't imagine why you think this.
The cops were dealing with a violent felon known to have had illegal weapons. He broke away and dove into his car. The only reasonable assumption was that he was going for a gun to shoot at the cops.

A taser would have worked and it's what she should have used. Everyone agrees with that. But even without his record, letting him get back in his car where he might have anything, would be a serious mistake.
Tom

1, He was NOT a 'violent felon.' He had been convicted of ZERO charges. ZERO. He was not 'known' to have illegal weapons. There were many possibilities for his actions after he broke away, the most obvious one being that he would drive away. Were there any weapons found in his car? I believe not.

He was black. Plain and simple. Therefore, he was a "violent felon" in the mind of TomC and the cop.
^ THAT is what needs to change.
 
Kim Potter did not make a poor choice. She made a mistake.

If you are attacked with a hammer and you have a gun on your hip, you can and should shoot the individual in the chest.

By your reasoning, the real issue is the cops aren't killing enough white people? The world would be better off if that guy was dead instead of in jail? The cop whose head was hit by the hammer would feel better if he had killed the guy? Or just armchair cowboys like yourself who think it's no biggie to shoot someone dead.


FWIW, IMO, Kim Potter made a poor choice AND made a mistake. She was NOT compelled to use any type of weapon on Wright. That was her poor choice. That the weapon she used was not a taser but a gun was her mistake.

I seriously do not understand what is wrong with people.

Black, white, male, female. Doesn’t make one iota of difference to me.
The individual who made it into his car and drove away likely is facing two charges of at least assault with a deadly weapon: the hammer and the vehicle. Likely something worse for the hammer. The cop’s life was in danger. He gets to stop the assailant by whatever means necessary. Any of us would. The guy likely got into his car before the cop could get his hands on him. Or are you assuming both scenarios unfolded the same way and the cop thought he’d be a sport and give the white guy a head start?
The individual who did not quite make it in his car and drive away was stopped from doing what? What was the guy who died going to do had they let him get in the car and drive away? What are the likely scenarios? We don’t know. I suppose we should have just waited and hope for the best. And if the cops catch up with him later? Then what? As long as he is willing to fight back hard enough, the cops should back off again and try again later. Maybe just let him go altogether. Never mind the warrant and whatever else. As long as you show you’re willing to fight hard enough, you’re not responsible for anything up to and including nonviolent felonies?

I haven’t seen any dirt on Kim Potter yet. No social media history of racism. No rumors that she is quick to draw her weapon. I guess racist white cop Kim Potter was lying in wait for 26 years to finally kill her first Black person. Now she can retire.
 
1, He was NOT a 'violent felon.' He had been convicted of ZERO charges. ZERO. He was not 'known' to have illegal weapons. There were many possibilities for his actions after he broke away, the most obvious one being that he would drive away. Were there any weapons found in his car? I believe not.

He was black. Plain and simple. Therefore, he was a "violent felon" in the mind of TomC and the cop.
^ THAT is what needs to change.

Got it.
I'm white and don't believe your narrative, Plain and Simple.

End of story. No reason to continue.
Tom
 
I do tend to think that Potter made a mistake, as people fuck up a lot, especially when they are in stressful situations. Lots of jobs are very stressful. Having said that, I think that 2nd degree manslaughter is an appropriate charge. When someone makes a deadly mistake, even if it was an accident, they are still expected to take responsibility. So, to give a very different example, if a surgeon cuts off your left leg, when it was your right leg that was the one that was impaired, the surgeon did this by accident due to his own carelessness. The surgeon still will need to take responsibility for his mistake. Malpractis, loss of license etc.

Sometimes we get too emotional when we discuss things like this. What happened is a horrible tragedy, especially for the family of Daunte, but horrible accidents happen all the time in all kinds of situations, so I think Potter deserves to be charged, and then a jury can decide her fate. Whatever happens, her career is over, and she will live with the guilt for the rest of her life for the dreadful error that she made.

But, the real problem is greater than the police who end up killing or harming innocent people, or people who have only been suspected of committing minor crimes. The entire policing system is in need of a complete over haul, not just reform, but over haul. Yes. We need police, but they need to be paid well, trained well, and be screened for their ability to respect the residents of the area where they serve. They should be respected too, but they need to earn that respect. I also think that the police should be required to live in the district where they serve, so they feel part of the community and not on a combat mission. It's the system that needs to change.

And, while I agree that our Black citizens are treated much more harshly that people like me, the fact is that an awful to of us with pale skin also fear the police. My 69 year old sister was stopped by a cop last year, for the crime of not moving fast enough when the light turned green. She's always had a bit of ADD. She was probably day dreaming when the light changed. The cop didn't ticket her, but her did harass her verbally. Why couldn't he just have given her a light beep beep on his horn, like I do when someone doesn't realize the light has changed. I could go on all day, but hopefully some of you get the point. Something needs to be done to change this. Or is hopeless? I'm not sure anymore.
 
As for Floyd's earlier charges and conviction, he served his sentence.

I mean, so what? TomC is arguing that Floyd has displayed sociopathic tendencies. I would say armed robbery is pretty good evidence of sociopathic tendencies. Maybe not bulletproof, but certainly weighs heavy towards that conclusion. Not sure why you need to deny this.
 
"Tiny pieces"?
It's the violent crime, the heavy drugs, the job as a bouncer. That sort of thing.

Things that Chauvin probably knew about.

Large, yes.
Swarthy, no.

Believe it or not but not all wypepo are racist. Even if we disagree with you about something.
Tom

You mean, the bouncer job like the one Chauvin had, at the exact same place? The one where Chauvin was also accused of being too violent?

As for Floyd's earlier charges and conviction, he served his sentence.

You do understand that I'm not claiming Chauvin is innocent, right?

That's what seems impossible when this sort of issue gets discussed. Nuances get lost and everything gets turned black and white. Floyd's contributions to his own demise get ignored and and it's all about Chauvin.
Tom

Well, Chauvin is on trial, and none of Floyd's actions really seem to have much bearing on that.
 
Floyd's contributions to his own demise get ignored and and it's all about Chauvin.
Tom

That's because they are irrelevant to the legality of his murder. Under US law, you aren't required to be a "good person" in order to earn the right to not be executed in the street.

He wasn't executed. Nor do I think he was murdered.
Your's is exactly the kind of response I'm referring to.

The big difference between our opinions is that you are willing to form firm opinions based on sketchy information and I am not.
Tom

Wait, to be clear, are you saying you don't think Chauvin is guilty of "unintentional murder in the second degree", as he is being charged with under Minnesota law?

If that is the case, do you not believe the restraint Chauvin used on Floyd was a significant contributor to his death? Or do you not believe that Chauvin's use of force was unjustified? Because if it *was* an unjustified use of force that contributed to his death, then it would be murder 2, unintentional in Minnesota.

Or perhaps you mean "murder" as in "intentional homicide", where you simply don't believe it was intentional?
 
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