Decline of the Western World

[Bronzeage]

Cheap reliable energy from Russia didn't seem to do much for Russian manufacturing.

Exactly my point. That's called Dutch disease.

German manufacturing will probably find a solution.

Yes, they are moving to US. When current situation ends, Russia should suggest german business to move to Russia with germans if they want to.

You must remember, the Kremlin talking points don't work outside of Russia, where everyone, including you has free access to information. It's always amusing when you bring us something a Trump supporter would be happy to repeat, if paid enough, but certainly not believe. I bet you're not getting paid nearly as much as Benny Johnson, Tim Pool, and Dave Rubin.

No one wants to move their business to Russia. Russia is the place where people who disagree with the government get thrown out of a window, or poisoned and thrown in prison for failure to die of poisoning. It's a very business hostile environment.

There is also currently a labor shortage.

 

[barbos]

Meanwhile, here is the reality of conditions in China, not a stupid YouTube video.

That's propaganda garbage.

Yep, three minutes between when I posted the article, and when you responded. So you obviously did not even read what you dismiss as “propaganda garbage.” On some level you must be embarrassed at being so transparent.

I read the title and the web page address which was more than enough to make conclusion. Moreover I have read such articles with pretty much identical titles before. In fact professor in the youtube I linked talked about such garbage.

 

[barbos]

Cheap reliable energy from Russia didn't seem to do much for Russian manufacturing.

Exactly my point. That's called Dutch disease.

German manufacturing will probably find a solution.

Yes, they are moving to US. When current situation ends, Russia should suggest german business to move to Russia with germans if they want to.

You must remember, the Kremlin talking points don't work outside of Russia,

That's not Kemlin. That's US economits.

where everyone, including you has free access to information. It's always amusing when you bring us something a Trump supporter would be happy to repeat, if paid enough, but certainly not believe.

That's idiotic, considering that OP video is trashing Trump.

I bet you're not getting paid nearly as much as Benny Johnson, Tim Pool, and Dave Rubin.

No one wants to move their business to Russia. Russia is the place where people who disagree with the government get thrown out of a window, or poisoned and thrown in prison for failure to die of poisoning. It's a very business hostile environment.

You are repeating lies.

There is also currently a labor shortage.

Yes, and this helps you how?

 

[barbos]

Meanwhile, here is the reality of conditions in China, not a stupid YouTube video.

That's propaganda garbage.

Furthermore, I’m sure you did not even read the article. You wouldn’t have had time to, based on when I posted it and how quickly your responded your go-to, knee-jerk claim of “propaganda garbage.” It’s a long article, after all.

I did not read it but I am pretty sure I have watched comments on that very article.

 

[barbos]

LOL, yes, I have watched commentary on that utter shit article.
Yes, Ursula von der Crazy and her idiotic economic theories.
Kinda relevant here because The West being run by characters like Ursula and BoJo is part of the problem.

 

[Politesse]

First half of this youtube is an interview with an US economist/professor. They are talking about how China is basically eating your lunch.
I remember living in 1990s Russia and wondering why is everything so shitty. Standard answer was - commies, lack of democracy and the rest.
But modern China is not "democratic" and it looks like Western economies successes of the second half of the last century were not exactly due to democracy. US especially, you were sole winners of the WW2 and had to have the best everything simply by default. Things were extremely good in the West and shitty elsewhere. Then at some point capitalists decided to use chinese labour in order to increase their profits. And 40 years later Communist China is better than you at .... capitalism. And US is trying hopelessly to stop China's economy.
Think about it. Trump is seriously trying to sanctions countries for NOT using US dollars. How the fuck is that can appear legal?
And combine it with US banning Russia for using dollars. Are you insane?

There are some pretty intricate global dynamics happening right now, but if I wanted to learn about them it likely wouldn't be via a Youtube called WEST'S COLOSSAL MISTAKE with a bunch of fire on the thumbnail.

If you want to make a point could you point us to something substantive that makes your point more clear? Otherwise your thread isn't much use. Right now it just reads like a bunch of superficial talking points.

Richard Wolff is a reasonably well-respected economist. He and Steve Resnick were Amherst's token Marxists for many years, and wrote a very popular introductory work called Contending Economic Theories which was on a lot of shelves through the 90s.

 

[pood]

Meanwhile, here is the reality of conditions in China, not a stupid YouTube video.

That's propaganda garbage.

Yep, three minutes between when I posted the article, and when you responded. So you obviously did not even read what you dismiss as “propaganda garbage.” On some level you must be embarrassed at being so transparent.

I read the title and the web page address which was more than enough to make conclusion. Moreover I have read such articles with pretty much identical titles before. In fact professor in the youtube I linked talked about such garbage.

Yes, we know. You’ve embarrassed yourself yet again.

 

[pood]

Meanwhile, here is the reality of conditions in China, not a stupid YouTube video.

That's propaganda garbage.

Furthermore, I’m sure you did not even read the article. You wouldn’t have had time to, based on when I posted it and how quickly your responded your go-to, knee-jerk claim of “propaganda garbage.” It’s a long article, after all.

I did not read it but I am pretty sure I have watched comments on that very article.

 

[barbos]

Again, the point here is a contrast between present and 30-40 years ago.
40 years ago China was an economic shithole, same with most of the Asia outside of Japan.
US was running the planet, literally.

 

[barbos]

Meanwhile, here is the reality of conditions in China, not a stupid YouTube video.

That's propaganda garbage.

Yep, three minutes between when I posted the article, and when you responded. So you obviously did not even read what you dismiss as “propaganda garbage.” On some level you must be embarrassed at being so transparent.

I read the title and the web page address which was more than enough to make conclusion. Moreover I have read such articles with pretty much identical titles before. In fact professor in the youtube I linked talked about such garbage.

Yes, we know. You’ve embarrassed yourself yet again.

No, you embarrassed yourself by posting this shit.

 

[pood]

Meanwhile, here is the reality of conditions in China, not a stupid YouTube video.

That's propaganda garbage.

Yep, three minutes between when I posted the article, and when you responded. So you obviously did not even read what you dismiss as “propaganda garbage.” On some level you must be embarrassed at being so transparent.

I read the title and the web page address which was more than enough to make conclusion. Moreover I have read such articles with pretty much identical titles before. In fact professor in the youtube I linked talked about such garbage.

Yes, we know. You’ve embarrassed yourself yet again.

No, you embarrassed yourself by posting this shit.

Not in eye eyes of anyone who retains residual contact with reality. When you dismiss an article without reading it, you don’t just embarrass yourself, you humiliate yourself. But you do that every day on this forum.

 

[pood]

Again, the point here is a contrast between present and 30-40 years ago.
40 years ago China was an economic shithole, same with most of the Asia outside of Japan.
US was running the planet, literally.

Of course that’s true. So what?

 

[pood]

The U.S. Marshal plan began the revival of Jaoan and Western Europe. Nixon brought China in from the cold and began the process of integrating it into the world economy. The fall of the Iron Curtain and the Soviet Union made Eastern Europe more or less normal countries again, with varying degrees of economic and democratic success. Russia under Yeltsin submitted to Western shock economic therapy, a mistake that paved the way for the Nazi Putin. Russia now is a shit hole. We know all this.

Anything new to teach us, Professor Barbos?

 

[rousseau]

First half of this youtube is an interview with an US economist/professor. They are talking about how China is basically eating your lunch.
I remember living in 1990s Russia and wondering why is everything so shitty. Standard answer was - commies, lack of democracy and the rest.
But modern China is not "democratic" and it looks like Western economies successes of the second half of the last century were not exactly due to democracy. US especially, you were sole winners of the WW2 and had to have the best everything simply by default. Things were extremely good in the West and shitty elsewhere. Then at some point capitalists decided to use chinese labour in order to increase their profits. And 40 years later Communist China is better than you at .... capitalism. And US is trying hopelessly to stop China's economy.
Think about it. Trump is seriously trying to sanctions countries for NOT using US dollars. How the fuck is that can appear legal?
And combine it with US banning Russia for using dollars. Are you insane?

There are some pretty intricate global dynamics happening right now, but if I wanted to learn about them it likely wouldn't be via a Youtube called WEST'S COLOSSAL MISTAKE with a bunch of fire on the thumbnail.

If you want to make a point could you point us to something substantive that makes your point more clear? Otherwise your thread isn't much use. Right now it just reads like a bunch of superficial talking points.

Richard Wolff is a reasonably well-respected economist. He and Steve Resnick were Amherst's token Marxists for many years, and wrote a very popular introductory work called Contending Economic Theories which was on a lot of shelves through the 90s.

That's fair, but I think anyone coming into a thread and seeing a two hour video with a click-bait title and imagery, and no summary of any of it's content is probably going to just pass on the video. Maybe Barbos could have provided a few quotations from the interview, something, anything substantive. Nobody's going to watch the Youtube.

I consider myself reasonably informed on international politics and am not completely skeptical of the argument, but it's a pretty thoughtless OP with no real substance.

 

[Bomb#20]

People have been prophesying the decline of the western world about as long as the Second Coming of Christ.

The Decline of the West - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[steve_bank]

Barbos said he went to school over here but he still does not get our culture.

In economics and politics there are widely differing views in universities and among professional economists.

There are communist economists in universities, but small in number

Some economists predicted a recession or depression, it never happens..

As to China, it has ts own probelms.

We were not the 'sole winners' of WWII. France, UK,Canada, Australia and the rest.

Post WWII we had around 50% of world economy. We helped Europe build back up, we helped Japan which is now an economic power that we compete with. Today we compete with EU. Post war we promoted free market capitalism.

Russia and China promoted global communism, both failed catastrophically.

The US and the western alliance created the pot war rule of international law that allowed the growth of global economies, especially China.

After the failure of Maoism China was poor and a mess. Starvation and famine. Chaos. Mao's successors opened to western investment. Modern China built itself on western investmnnt, manufacturing expertise, and technolgy it did nothng to contrinute to. It blantantly stole technology.

China's hyper jingoism and ethnic nationalism precludes any large scale permanent immgraion, while the yioung population is decling and the old population is e increasing.

China is ;'biting the had that fed it'.

Yes we are in decline. We are suffering from too much food, too much freedom.

The recent reprts are thee conmy is in good shape. The Fed rediced interest rates.

The problem with China and Ridssia is clnging to the old cimmunist cnetrlized power and control.

i'd say the west has the beer probability of a future than Russia or China. The west adapts and changes over time. Russia and China have to fit within a fixed rigid unchamging system.

 

[ZiprHead]

Well, the west IS collapsing, plenty of economists say that.

Perhaps you could cite some of these economists that say that.

 

[steve_bank]

Adding for Barbos, nothing was handed to the USA. We along with the rest of the allied states fought the Italians, Germans, and Japanese.

WWII forced us to develop what became modern manufacturing technology. That would be a thread on the technology forum. China inherited that technology without hang to work for it.

 

[barbos]

Again, the point here is a contrast between present and 30-40 years ago.
40 years ago China was an economic shithole, same with most of the Asia outside of Japan.
US was running the planet, literally.

Of course that’s true. So what?

Tell that to your rulers who desperately trying to turn time back.

 

[barbos]

Barbos said he went to school over here but he still does not get our culture.

In economics and politics there are widely differing views in universities and among professional economists.

There are communist economists in universities, but small in number

Some economists predicted a recession or depression, it never happens..

As to China, it has ts own probelms.

We were not the 'sole winners' of WWII. France, UK,Canada, Australia and the rest.

Post WWII we had around 50% of world economy. We helped Europe build back up, we helped Japan which is now an economic power that we compete with. Today we compete with EU. Post war we promoted free market capitalism.

Russia and China promoted global communism, both failed catastrophically.

The US and the western alliance created the pot war rule of international law that allowed the growth of global economies, especially China.

After the failure of Maoism China was poor and a mess. Starvation and famine. Chaos. Mao's successors opened to western investment. Modern China built itself on western investmnnt, manufacturing expertise, and technolgy it did nothng to contrinute to. It blantantly stole technology.

China's hyper jingoism and ethnic nationalism precludes any large scale permanent immgraion, while the yioung population is decling and the old population is e increasing.

China is ;'biting the had that fed it'.

Yes we are in decline. We are suffering from too much food, too much freedom.

The recent reprts are thee conmy is in good shape. The Fed rediced interest rates.

The problem with China and Ridssia is clnging to the old cimmunist cnetrlized power and control.

i'd say the west has the beer probability of a future than Russia or China. The west adapts and changes over time. Russia and China have to fit within a fixed rigid unchamging system.

The problem with you is that you are full of shit and unaware of that.