Dem Post Mortem

[thebeave]

To broaden the Dems appeal to Latinos the Democrats need to start trashing Latinos.

Nah. Maybe the Dems could start by actually doing their research and understanding their culture, needs and desires. Like perhaps looking at surveys showing they don't like being called Latinx. By an overwhelming margin. Yet PBS & NPR, etc continue to use that term. I saw Kamala paying a lot of attention to women, black folks and/or young people on her campaign, but I don't recall any of part of her campaign directed to Hispanics (except for bringing mega rich J Lo on stage. BFD). I don't know if you watched 60 Minutes last night, but the first segment was about how Hispanics are moving away from Democrats towards Republicans. It would be worth watching if you're still unsure how the Dems are losing out to the fastest growing demographic in the country.

 

[Shadowy Man]

To broaden the Dems appeal to Latinos the Democrats need to start trashing Latinos.

Nah. Maybe the Dems could start by actually doing their research and understanding their culture, needs and desires. Like perhaps looking at surveys showing they don't like being called Latinx. By an overwhelming margin. Yet PBS & NPR, etc continue to use that term.

how many Trump voters do you suppose spend a lot of time listening to PBS and NPR?

 

[Colonel Sanders]

To broaden the Dems appeal to Latinos the Democrats need to start trashing Latinos.

I get you're being sarcastic, but it is a legitimate issue.

1. Dems don't understand the Latino community as a whole. I worked in the construction industry for a good 25 years and the machismo aspect of these cultures is very real. It's a very patriarchal culture and the Dems not only ignored it, they indirectly dismissed it because of the disdain for the male heteros in general. While not the only aspect, it is an important one.

2. They took these voters for granted and IMO, the Dems probably continued to get a lot of votes this time around simply due to the habit many Latinos voting for them because those who came before them did so.

3. The continual influx of immigrants has threatened the jobs they worked for generations to gain ground in. Is this the proverbial "shutting the door behind them"? It probably is, but it's a serious issue that Trump was able to take advantage of using the historic Democratic policy of being weak on immigration. By the time the Dems got around to taking the issue seriously, Trump was able to block their bill without much blowback due to the Dems history of being so flaccid on the issue.

Rather than recognizing the shift in diversity of these cultures and subcultures, the Dems treated them as a given while at the same time dismissing their concerns.

If we ever do have free and fair elections, the Democratic party has a lot to do in a little amount of time.

 

[thebeave]

To broaden the Dems appeal to Latinos the Democrats need to start trashing Latinos.

Nah. Maybe the Dems could start by actually doing their research and understanding their culture, needs and desires. Like perhaps looking at surveys showing they don't like being called Latinx. By an overwhelming margin. Yet PBS & NPR, etc continue to use that term.

how many Trump voters do you suppose spend a lot of time listening to PBS and NPR?

Very few I would imagine. What is your point?

 

[TomC]

Like perhaps looking at surveys showing they don't like being called Latinx. By an overwhelming margin. Yet PBS & NPR, etc continue to use that term

That's always seemed kinda stupid to me.
Regardless of what gringo Wokesters think should be, the language is not difficult and doesn't need rescuing. Latino is the gender neutral term for groups. It's also the masculine term for individuals. If the native speakers are not generally interested in this "improvement" to their language, why does anyone else care?

It's always seemed pretty darned dismissive and culturally appropriating. Of course they don't like it.
Tom

 

[Colonel Sanders]

To broaden the Dems appeal to Latinos the Democrats need to start trashing Latinos.

Nah. Maybe the Dems could start by actually doing their research and understanding their culture, needs and desires. Like perhaps looking at surveys showing they don't like being called Latinx. By an overwhelming margin. Yet PBS & NPR, etc continue to use that term.

how many Trump voters do you suppose spend a lot of time listening to PBS and NPR?

They don't have to listen to those stations in order for the word to get out into the public sphere.

They're tired of being relabeled every decade or so e.g from Chicano to Hispanic to Latino, and then Latinx. It's condescending in that tiny numbers of overly influential people in the liberal sphere are consistently attempting to recreate their identity for them.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

To broaden the Dems appeal to Latinos the Democrats need to start trashing Latinos.

I for one will not blame any specific demographic, but I will blame misinformation peddlers who are everywhere and the media for being shit at educating people. Actually I will blame the religious fundamentalists too.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

To broaden the Dems appeal to Latinos the Democrats need to start trashing Latinos.

I get you're being sarcastic, but it is a legitimate issue.

1. Dems don't understand the Latino community as a whole.

Yes they do. Latinos are generally conservative especially where religion is concerned. That the Dems have been getting the majority of their votes spoke a lot more of the GOP than the Dems.

I worked in the construction industry for a good 25 years and the machismo aspect of these cultures is very real. It's a very patriarchal culture and the Dems not only ignored it, they indirectly dismissed it because of the disdain for the male heteros in general. While not the only aspect, it is an important one.

What, are you saying the Dems should have named this guy as the VP nominee?

2. They took these voters for granted and IMO, the Dems probably continued to get a lot of votes this time around simply due to the habit many Latinos voting for them because those who came before them did so.

Did they? How so?

3. The continual influx of immigrants has threatened the jobs they worked for generations to gain ground in. Is this the proverbial "shutting the door behind them"? It probably is, but it's a serious issue that Trump was able to take advantage of using the historic Democratic policy of being weak on immigration. By the time the Dems got around to taking the issue seriously, Trump was able to block their bill without much blowback due to the Dems history of being so flaccid on the issue.

That is exactly what the right-wing has successfully convinced America is the truth. But the reality that the Democrats are the only ones to propose plans (and enact them) on immigrants/illegal immigrants. President Obama needed to bring out an Executive Branch plan because the GOP wouldn't do anything about it. They've had the Trifecta twice since 2001 (including once with Trump!). One of those spans included a six* year long span minus the Sen Jeffords defection in W's first term. W wanted to put a plan forward and the GOP stopped it.

The Democrats aren't flaccid immigration, they just aren't militant and ignore it for political gain.

Rather than recognizing the shift in diversity of these cultures and subcultures, the Dems treated them as a given while at the same time dismissing their concerns.

What shift? Latinos are still Latinos. How the GOP is marketing towards them is changing. Trump made a play for the toxic male vote. And lets remember, latinos didn't swerve MI or WI.

 

[Shadowy Man]

To broaden the Dems appeal to Latinos the Democrats need to start trashing Latinos.

Nah. Maybe the Dems could start by actually doing their research and understanding their culture, needs and desires. Like perhaps looking at surveys showing they don't like being called Latinx. By an overwhelming margin. Yet PBS & NPR, etc continue to use that term.

how many Trump voters do you suppose spend a lot of time listening to PBS and NPR?

Very few I would imagine. What is your point?

My point is that if as you say PBS and NPR are using the term but people who voted for Trump don’t listen to PBS and NPR the. How were they bothered by PBS and NPR using the term? If it is other sources using the term that bothered them then how does PBS and NPR using the terms matter?

You were the one who brought up PBS and NPR so I’m trying to understand the relevance of your statement.

I live in a mixed area where my kids’ schools are at least 40% Hispanic and I never hear the term “latinx”. I’ve only heard it on this board and in niche political discussions. It seems weird to me at least that this would be a significant issue amongst Hispanic voters.

 

[TomC]

You were the one who brought up PBS and NPR so I’m trying to understand the relevance of your statement.

If outfits like NPR and PBS use terms, referring specifically to the listener that the listener strongly dislikes, how hard is it to understand that those listeners just go to some other channel?

If Latinos, as a group, don't like being described as Latinx how hard is it to understand that they tend to stop listening to media outlets who use that word? And go listen to other outlets, like Fox?
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You were the one who brought up PBS and NPR so I’m trying to understand the relevance of your statement.

If outfits like NPR and PBS use terms, referring specifically to the listener that the listener strongly dislikes, how hard is it to understand that those listeners just go to some other channel?

If Latinos, as a group, don't like being described as Latinx how hard is it to understand that they tend to stop listening to media outlets who use that word? And go listen to other outlets, like Fox?
Tom

Is it that broadly used on NPR? The term itself seems to be stuck in Hispanic advocacy groups in an effort of inclusion in Hispanics causes. Only about half of Hispanics say they've ever heard the term.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Libruls. Wokeness. Grrrrr.

 

[Shadowy Man]

You were the one who brought up PBS and NPR so I’m trying to understand the relevance of your statement.

If outfits like NPR and PBS use terms, referring specifically to the listener that the listener strongly dislikes, how hard is it to understand that those listeners just go to some other channel?

If Latinos, as a group, don't like being described as Latinx how hard is it to understand that they tend to stop listening to media outlets who use that word? And go listen to other outlets, like Fox?
Tom

Sure, I can understand that could happen, but is there evidence that that is what happened? Hispanics were listening to NPR and PBS but then stopped listening when they used terms like "Latinx"? Then they voted for Trump because they associated NPR and PBS with Democrats? It's not hard to understand that that could happen but do we know that that is what did happen?

There are a lot of pundits trying to analyze what happened and it is understandable that they would want to find a few concrete reasons to explain it so that they can imagine a game plan to fix it, but I'm not sure that is what is true. Recall back in 2012 when Romney lost, the Republican Party talked about how they needed to change their appeal to Hispanic voters. I don't recall what they did, if anything to do that, but the argument here is that the Democrats did that for them.

 

[Politesse]

You were the one who brought up PBS and NPR so I’m trying to understand the relevance of your statement.

If outfits like NPR and PBS use terms, referring specifically to the listener that the listener strongly dislikes, how hard is it to understand that those listeners just go to some other channel?

If Latinos, as a group, don't like being described as Latinx how hard is it to understand that they tend to stop listening to media outlets who use that word? And go listen to other outlets, like Fox?
Tom

Is it that broadly used on NPR? The term itself seems to be stuck in Hispanic advocacy groups in an effort of inclusion in Hispanics causes. Only about half of Hispanics say they've ever heard the term.

Of course not. NPR, home of the weekly radio program "Latino USA"? But it's heard damn near every day on FOX News, and that's where scare tactics work best.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Why are they even called Latinos? Do they even speak Latin??

 

[Politesse]

Why are they even called Latinos? Do they even speak Latin??

Latino/a/x: someone from Latin America. Latin America - the parts of the Americas colonized by either Spain or Portugal and thus speaking closely related Latin languages. It's used more often in academic and/or public policy circles than "on the street", as a way of including all of South and Central America under one big ill-fitting label. Non-Anglophone, in short. Immigrants to the US use it more often, though more often in conversation with people outside the community than internally. A Mexican living in the US is more likely to call themselves "Mexican" than Latino if they're from Mexico originally, or sometimes "Chicano" if they were born here. But those both come with the same gendered suffix problem that "Latinx" was trying to solve.

 

[TomC]

But those both come with the same gendered suffix problem that "Latinx" was trying to solve.

What "gendered suffix problem" did Latinos want to be solved?

Sounds more like gringo Wokesters telling Latinos how to use their language. Because the gender norms they adhere to Must Be Respected!
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

But those both come with the same gendered suffix problem that "Latinx" was trying to solve.

What "gendered suffix problem" did Latinos want to be solved?

...did younger and more politically and issue driven Latinos want to solve?

Sounds more like gringo Wokesters telling Latinos how to use their language. Because the gender norms they adhere to Must Be Respected!

Not really. It was young Latinos aiming at inclusion, and the term never really took off, because it wasn't well publicized (only half of Latinos polled have heard it!) nor was there an apparent widespread desire to adopt it.

 

[Politesse]

What "gendered suffix problem" did Latinos want to be solved?

Implicit exclusion of trans and non-binary people from Latino spaces. I take it you never learned how to Google? Am I your Google?

 

[TomC]

What "gendered suffix problem" did Latinos want to be solved?

Implicit exclusion of trans and non-binary people from Latino spaces. I take it you never learned how to Google?

And is that why Latinos helped put Trump into office? Because "inclusion of trans and non-binary people" is not at the top of their political wishlist?

Maybe you could get down from your tower and realize that not everyone shares your priorities?
Tom