• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

Dem Post Mortem

But those both come with the same gendered suffix problem that "Latinx" was trying to solve.
What "gendered suffix problem" did Latinos want to be solved?
...did younger and more politically and issue driven Latinos want to solve?
Sounds more like gringo Wokesters telling Latinos how to use their language. Because the gender norms they adhere to Must Be Respected!
Not really. It was young Latinos aiming at inclusion, and the term never really took off, because it wasn't well publicized (only half of Latinos polled have heard it!) nor was there an apparent widespread desire to adopt it.
It never caught on with Latinos in general, but it is still used routinely by the Spanish-speaking LGBTQ community, and as a result is pretty common in academic spaces across Latin America. Since conservatives hate Mexicans, trans people, and college education, it's a perfect wedge issue.
 
What "gendered suffix problem" did Latinos want to be solved?
Implicit exclusion of trans and non-binary people from Latino spaces. I take it you never learned how to Google? Am I your Google?
I think he's implying that Latinos, as a whole, did not want to solve that problem. And the "woke left" who pushed the solution may have solved it for a minuscule minority of Latinos but then pushed away enough of the majority of Latinos to get them to vote for Trump instead of Harris.
 
What "gendered suffix problem" did Latinos want to be solved?
Implicit exclusion of trans and non-binary people from Latino spaces. I take it you never learned how to Google?
And is that why Latinos helped put Trump into office? Because "inclusion of trans and non-binary people" is not at the top of their political wishlist?

Maybe you could get down from your tower and realize that not everyone shares your priorities?
Tom
You asked a factual question. I gave you a factual answer. I advanced no opinion on the issue either way, because I don't really have one. And I'm getting very tired of your bullshit. Should I start calling you unlettered gutter trash every time you call me an ivory tower academic?

Yes, I have a degree. Yes, sometimes that means I know the answer to questions that it would have taken you three seconds to google on your own.
 
To broaden the Dems appeal to Latinos the Democrats need to start trashing Latinos.
I get you're being sarcastic, but it is a legitimate issue.

1. Dems don't understand the Latino community as a whole.
Yes they do. Latinos are generally conservative especially where religion is concerned. That the Dems have been getting the majority of their votes spoke a lot more of the GOP than the Dems.
That speaks to decades gone by where Hispanics were horribly discriminated against. It was liberals that helped fight for their right to be included and not discriminated against. They were incredibly vulnerable and needed help. However, as assimilation and acceptance has much more become the standard, Americans of Hispanic descent don't necessarily feel the need to vote for Democrats anymore. They have the agency and ability to work in jobs that most Americans do. Meanwhile, the Dems still treat them like the vulnerable minority they used to be.
I worked in the construction industry for a good 25 years and the machismo aspect of these cultures is very real. It's a very patriarchal culture and the Dems not only ignored it, they indirectly dismissed it because of the disdain for the male heteros in general. While not the only aspect, it is an important one.
What, are you saying the Dems should have named this guy as the VP nominee?
ElMachoFlashback.png

2. They took these voters for granted and IMO, the Dems probably continued to get a lot of votes this time around simply due to the habit many Latinos voting for them because those who came before them did so.
Did they? How so?
3. The continual influx of immigrants has threatened the jobs they worked for generations to gain ground in. Is this the proverbial "shutting the door behind them"? It probably is, but it's a serious issue that Trump was able to take advantage of using the historic Democratic policy of being weak on immigration. By the time the Dems got around to taking the issue seriously, Trump was able to block their bill without much blowback due to the Dems history of being so flaccid on the issue.
That is exactly what the right-wing has successfully convinced America is the truth. But the reality that the Democrats are the only ones to propose plans (and enact them) on immigrants/illegal immigrants. President Obama needed to bring out an Executive Branch plan because the GOP wouldn't do anything about it. They've had the Trifecta twice since 2001 (including once with Trump!). One of those spans included a six* year long span minus the Sen Jeffords defection in W's first term. W wanted to put a plan forward and the GOP stopped it.

The Democrats aren't flaccid immigration, they just aren't militant and ignore it for political gain.
Well, then that's on the Dems. The idea is to get the message out there in order to win elections. Might such ideological sacrifices be a step back in terms of progressive politics? Absolutely. I really wish that practicality didn't have to subvert ideology, but that's the reality and it always will be.

Look at SCOTUS now and for decades into the future. The Supreme Court says what the law is (see Marbury vs. Madison), which means that, among a lot other things, a lot of right are going to be lost (see abortion). These losses are going to impact the poor, women, and all other groups the Dems claim to care about. When Obergefell is overturned, gay people are going to lose the right to marry.

Maybe some militancy indulged in for political gain would've prevented that. Maybe not, but what is inarguable is that the failure to engage in it hurt us badly.
Rather than recognizing the shift in diversity of these cultures and subcultures, the Dems treated them as a given while at the same time dismissing their concerns.
What shift? Latinos are still Latinos. How the GOP is marketing towards them is changing. Trump made a play for the toxic male vote. And lets remember, latinos didn't swerve MI or WI.
Ah yes, the "toxic male" vote. By current leftist social media standards, that label can and is often applied with a very wide brush to hetero men, regardless of ethnicity, including Hispanic males. As I've said before, this bullshit never made me vote R, and I'll never vote R, but when that message is communicated to young men, well, we saw the results of last week's election.

Given what I've said above, maybe the Latino vote by itself didn't sway those states, but the excoriation of hetero males as a demographic likely did.
 
To broaden the Dems appeal to Latinos the Democrats need to start trashing Latinos.
Nah. Maybe the Dems could start by actually doing their research and understanding their culture, needs and desires. Like perhaps looking at surveys showing they don't like being called Latinx. By an overwhelming margin. Yet PBS & NPR, etc continue to use that term.
how many Trump voters do you suppose spend a lot of time listening to PBS and NPR?
They don't have to listen to those stations in order for the word to get out into the public sphere.

They're tired of being relabeled every decade or so e.g from Chicano to Hispanic to Latino, and then Latinx. It's condescending in that tiny numbers of overly influential people in the liberal sphere are consistently attempting to recreate their identity for them.
Colonel
You really need to stop talking sense or you will be banned.
 
To broaden the Dems appeal to Latinos the Democrats need to start trashing Latinos.
I for one will not blame any specific demographic, but I will blame misinformation peddlers who are everywhere and the media for being shit at educating people. Actually I will blame the religious fundamentalists too.
You have just blamed a specific demographic despite your best efforts to the contrary.
 
What shift? Latinos are still Latinos. How the GOP is marketing towards them is changing. Trump made a play for the toxic male vote. And lets remember, latinos didn't swerve MI or WI.
So what you're saying is that hispanic men are toxic?
There is no possible other interpretation from the text above other than all Latino men are toxic.
 
"Don't call Trump supporters derogatory names! Anyway, the other side gets to do whatever the fuck they want and get away with it."
If you do what your opponents do are you any better than them? Are you not trying to be better than them?
We've tried being better than them. They still voted for the dipshit.
 
To broaden the Dems appeal to Latinos the Democrats need to start trashing Latinos.
I for one will not blame any specific demographic, but I will blame misinformation peddlers who are everywhere and the media for being shit at educating people. Actually I will blame the religious fundamentalists too.
You have just blamed a specific demographic despite your best efforts to the contrary.
You didn't live in the US in the 90s, so I don't expect you understand the issue with white evangelicals in America.
 
To broaden the Dems appeal to Latinos the Democrats need to start trashing Latinos.
I for one will not blame any specific demographic, but I will blame misinformation peddlers who are everywhere and the media for being shit at educating people. Actually I will blame the religious fundamentalists too.
You have just blamed a specific demographic despite your best efforts to the contrary.
Yes, I said I was going to blame one demographic.
 
To broaden the Dems appeal to Latinos the Democrats need to start trashing Latinos.
I for one will not blame any specific demographic, but I will blame misinformation peddlers who are everywhere and the media for being shit at educating people. Actually I will blame the religious fundamentalists too.
You have just blamed a specific demographic despite your best efforts to the contrary.
You didn't live in the US in the 90s, so I don't expect you understand the issue with white evangelicals in America.
Oh come on! Times have changed now and it's not like you can easily find megachurch pastors who drone on about Satanic liberals and whatnot. (sarcasm)
 
Since conservatives hate Mexicans, trans people, and college education
What leads you to believe that conservatives hate mexicans,
Immigrants in general? The whole "they are eating the pets" thing.
or hate trans people
Did you not see the Harris is with They/Them, He is with You ad? Are you out in California where only the House races are potentially competitive? The ads in Ohio were brutally anti-transgender.
or hare college education?
You mean other than the 30+ years of mocking people with college educations, at least on Fox News and AM Radio. Of course, all of the elected Republicans have one, and typically from the elite Ivy League schools the propaganda mill mocks.
 
It was the poster of post 161 who averred that Harris ran a good campaign. The Shadow asked about such a strawman. I merely noted that strawman has already been presented by another.
I wrote the post number 161. I just repeated it. you are welcome to refute it if you can.
It is president-elect Trump not president-elect Harris ergo Harris ran a poorer campaign than Trump.
I know it is hard to acknowledgement you lost to a clown and a buffoon but reality doesn't not care about your feelings.
Note that I also asked how do you run a campaign against a campaign like Trump's. Would you care to take a shot at answering?
See bottom half of post 206 where I jot down some comments.
I saw it. That's not what I asked of you. I asked how you would confront Trumpers to change their minds.

I will ask you again. How you would confront Trumpers to change their minds? What would YOU say?
You asked the question I italicised above. I took that to refer to Trump's latest (sadly successful) electoral campaign.
No, you confronted me because I called Trump voters derogatory names and said that's not how it should be done.
I have given you a possible solution. Calling people derogatory names and then wondering why they arc up does not work. Treat them civility is a good start (no guarantees though). Do you really need a manual on how to treat people civilly?
That is not necessarily the same as confronting Trump supporters. Trying to change someone's mind during an electoral campaign is most unlikely to be successful. Time is short, emotions are sometimes running hot etc. etc. It needs to be done before the campaign begins.
To which where you referring?
Okay. So now you have two tasks before you. You are still avoiding doing both, just criticizing.

Stop criticizing until you can demonstrate you can do better.
 
Back
Top Bottom