Poll Dem VP Pic: your choice?

[Derec]

Walz alluded to the rumor that Vance fucked a couch. To my knowledge, it has been neither been confirmed or denied. That makes it a rumor.
But if you are going to call that "basically a lie", then clearly you are spreading "basically a lie" by saying Ms. Harris fucked her way into a political position.

The first is based in a lie. The second is based in fact - they had a sexual relationship and he helped her career. Those are facts.

Why should anyone care about something relatively minor that happened about 30 years ago?

I do not think a DUI is a minor thing. He could have killed somebody driving 90 mph while drunk.

up but complain that bringing up a shootings from 6 to 20 years is basically dredging up the past.

What shootings?

 

[Derec]

Oh, dear. A Trump partisan attacking a “lie.” Unfortunately my local irony meter store is fresh out of irony meters.

Your fault is to erroneously assume that I am a "Trump partisan". Just because I dislike Trump does not mean I must like Trumpian tactics from the other side.

 

[Derec]

As usual, you have it exactly bassackwards. Apparently you are uneducable on the topic.

Right back at ya.

DEi “schemes,” as you put it, don’t discriminate against white men. They end discrimination against those who are not straight, white, cisgendered men. Try to get your facts straight.

Bullshit. If preferences are given to non-whites and women in order to increase their proportion, that discriminates against white men by definition.

 

[Derec]

You don't keep repeating the same thing over and over and over... well, maybe if you are Trump, but the "weird" thing is about setting a tone. You expand from it down the road.
You never know what will catch or what will sting. The whole sofa thing is surreal. "Weird" at least has a nice passive aggressive feel that the GOP is not used to having to defend against.

I think the whole Walz pick is surreal. From cowardness of appeasing the Dearborn "Death to America" crowd to the memification of the race with sophomoric quips.

Indeed, white men demand at least one white male on a ticket.

[citation needed] for all these white men demanding it.

 

[Derec]

Bullshit.

Hardly. Cops first turn on the lights when pulling you over.

Cops turn the sirens on when they want to be noticed. People who just realized there is a cop car behind them with its lights on and giving a brief blast of the siren might hesitate to pull over in the hope the cop is after someone else, or because they are looking for a safe place to stop. It's not an instantaneous thing in any of the 5 states where I lived after I got my driver's license.

What do you mean "it's not an instantaneous thing"? I don't think we disagree here, if I understand you correctly.
When pulling you over, cops would first turn on the lights. That's pretty noticeable, as those lights are very bright. If the car does not respond, it might get a chirp. If still ignored, the full siren.
My point is that him being hard of hearing is no excuse to not have seen the lights, especially at night.

At least he looks more contrite than this guy:

You are not wrong, but it's still whataboutism.

 

[Derec]

Nope, they are not “sus AF”. You don’t have a clue what was in their minds.

No, we never know what's in somebody's mind. We have to go by observables for everything.

You’re making shit up to suit your pre-made emotional feeling that she must be using sex in a bad way because she hasn’t earned anything.

I am not making it up. They fucked - a fact. He helped her career along - another fact. You are assuming that there wasn't any connection between the two and that she entered the relationship solely because she was attracted to him, despite the extreme age difference, in order to suit your premade emotional feeling.
I think my inference is much more reasonable, and if it was Vance in that position, or even a Republican woman, you'd be drawing the same inference.

Since you NEVER say this about men, it’s sus AF when you do this.

I don't think we have had a similar situation, but if it arose, I'd be saying the same thing.

 

[aupmanyav]

You said nothing about the mother's citizenship.

The question "Was Shyamala an Indian or an American?" depends on citizenship status.
We cannot call S. Chandrashekhar, the physicist, Kalpana Chawla, Sunita Williams and so many others to be Indians. They were/are 'Indian-origin' American citizen or immigrants.

She certainly did get ahead by sleeping with "Slick" Willie Brown. But it is anathema even to mention it on here.

Did she sleep with Willie Brown (just that I do not know the story)? Of course, nothing wrong if she did, her right.

 

[Copernicus]

Actually, you and everyone else understood that Walz was not seriously trying to spread a false rumor. He was making a joke at Vance's expense, because that false rumor had attached to him.

That not very funny "joke" was in poor taste whether on not Walz meant it seriously or not.
How would you (and other Dems) feel if Vance was cracking sexual jokes about Kamala? He'd be called a "misogynist", right? So why are sexual jokes acceptable against him, but not her?

You should refer back to your own response to rhea's post on this subject, when she said it was not as damaging for a male to be the butt of such jokes as for a woman. You didn't get her point then, and you still don't get it now. Sorry, but your misogyny keeps showing, even if you can't see it. Nobody really cares whether he admitted to masturbating on a couch, although it was a false social media theme. People would care, if the same were directed at a woman. As you admitted to Rhea, there is a real double standard in play. BTW, the audience did find the joke very funny, even knowing that it was a false meme. Harris has not tried to promote it seriously, and neither will Walz.

You can call it petty, but it is petty in the sense that anyone making a play on words with sexual overtones is petty.

It is very petty. And it cements his status as a "meme" candidate.

No, it cements his status as being able to gently mock a campaign that has used less gentle mockery and innuendo as a staple campaign technique. Trump pushes these memes constantly, and Vance has wasted no effort to copy the technique. You never really express outrage when Trump engages in this kind of pettiness, but now, all of a sudden, your outrage bubbles up when a Democrat uses mockery in what was clearly not a serious attack on his opponent.

Whether you believe the story or not, it is something that Vance himself could easily joke about, but the man has no real sense of humor.

That may be so, but it is easy to crack jokes with others as the butt of the joke. I do not see Walz joking about himself, and certainly not in a similarly crude manner.

It was far from crude, since he never tried to talk about what "the couch" meant. It was subtle. You really need to get a sense of humor. Anyone who takes that meme seriously is an idiot, but it is still funny that Vance can't seem to make light of it. He has every right to do so.

It's not the kind of pettiness involved in going after Walz for a decades old DUI charge that was dropped

As if Dems would not be making hay if Vance was the one driving drunk.

They would be wrong to claim that a dropped DUI charge was proof of DUI, and that is exactly how Republicans played this. But you are right that some Democrats would also try to make hay with it. I doubt that the Harris/Walz campaign would pursue it, if they knew that the DUI had been dropped by the judge, but they would certainly point to the guilty plea of reckless driving. Still, this happened over two decades ago, and Walz did offer to resign his teaching job when it happened. His resignation was rejected, and he reportedly became a teetotaler after that arrest.

or the fact that he let people believe he had retired at the rank of Command Sergeant Major, when he had actually been technically demoted for failing to take the final courses to qualify at the point he retired.

The rank is the rank. He should not have inflated it.

He did not. He was a command sgt major on the day he retired. He had been promoted, but the army automatically demoted him for not having finished the coursework to qualify. That has been officially confirmed, and admitted by the Harris campaign. You can't demote someone for a rank that they never held. The exaggeration was that he is a "retired command sgt major. That is not a factual claim. He is a retired sergeant major who was demoted from command sergeant major, because he was not entitled to the rank after retirement.

You are tone deaf to what Rhea said. She pointed out why that kind of story does no harm to a man. Your response was to shrug her point off as if it didn't matter.

I think it is just an excuse for sexist double standards. I have heard such arguments for decades from feminists, and they are all excuses for women being "more equal" than men.

No, it is an explanation for why sexual innuendo is more damaging to women to men. The double standard explains the sexism. You don't get it.

 

[Derec]

Of course you think that.
But the facts are clear. Women are at a much higher risk of violence at the hands of men, and women are at a much higher risk of harm from false rumors and women are at a much higher risk of career harm from denigrating interpretations of the exact same behavior that you never bring up about men.

What does violence have to do with these two cases? Nothing. And show me a citation that women's careers are " at a much higher risk of career harm from denigrating interpretations of the exact same behavior" as men?

So when you continuously, repeatedly and falsely claim that women’s bodies are available for transactions without their consent it is harmful to their careers and their safety.

I have never claimed that "women’s bodies are available for transactions without their consent". Whatever makes you think I did? And what does it have to do with Kamala Harris having a consensual, albeit transactional, relationship with a much older man?

It normalizes harm to them it gives men permission to harm women, because you proclaim the equivalent of “they want it anyway”.

The hell it does! I have never said anything to that effect. You are inventing things and claiming I said them.

And when you can’t tell that a (distasteful and false) joke about a man’s sexulity does not set him up as available for sexual transactions, it is blindly deluded. They are not the same.

A "(distasteful and false) joke about a woman’s sexulity[sic]" does not set her up as "available for sexual transactions" either. Neither does saying that she was (most likely) in a transactional relationship 30 years ago. That she chose to have such a relationship at some point does not mean she has to agree to any such proposals.
I think you are reading way too much into it.

And when it is clear that you NEVER make the same statements about men doing these things,

Can you point to a case where a man did something similar and I ignored it?

You know why Trumo cheats on his wives and seeks younger women. He’s trying to elevate his reputation. He does it repeatedly. Pathologically.

Again, whataboutism. And hypocrisy. Trump seeking out younger women is pathological, Brown seeking out younger women is ok.

Meanwhile a woman dates an older man for one period in her life and you can’t shut up about it. How long ago was this? You’re the only one who can’t see what message this sends.

I only brought it up as an example of a double standard to contrast it with how false sexual claims against Vance are treated very differently. I did not intend for it to spark such a long conversation, but you all are proving my point that there is a double standard.
You lose your mind because something from Kamala Harris' sexual past was mentioned, but you are fine with lies about JD Vance's sexual past being spread by the vice presidential candidate.

Interestingly, I know personally two couples with large (25+ years) age differences. One with a younger woman, one with a younger man. They are not transactional. SO your claim “but it’s rare, therefore Harris must have been transactional” sounds hollow, misogynistic and petulant.

Bullshit. You are ignoring the part where he helped her career. That is what makes it likely that it was transactional - there is a transaction!
Same with your couples. If there is some evidence of transnationality, like the older person being wealthy and spending a lot of money on the younger partner, that would also indicate that the relationship is very likely transactional.

And you cannot shut up about it. Your claim is not convincing in the least.

No, you cannot shut up about it. I just mentioned it as an example of the double standard vis-a-vis Vance. It would have been over at that had you and others not proven me right by keeping acting all outraged about it.

 

[Derec]

You should refer back to your own response to rhea's post on this subject, when she said it was not as damaging for a male to be the butt of such jokes as for a woman.

I understand what Rhea was saying, but I disagree.
It was true decades ago, but now that is no longer the case. If anything, it is flipped slightly.

You didn't get her point then, and you still don't get it now. Sorry, but your misogyny keeps showing, even if you can't see it.

I get it, I just disagree with her. To claim "misogyny" for disagreement on gender issues, or "racism" for disagreement on race issues is a dishonest debate tactic.

Nobody really cares whether he admitted to masturbating on a couch, although it was a false social media theme. People would care, if the same were directed at a woman.

No, they would not.
But Vance would be crucified for joking about Kamala masturbating on a couch. That is the double standard, not the response to masturbation itself.

As you admitted to Rhea, there is a real double standard in play.

But not the way Rhea and you claim there is.

BTW, the audience did find the joke very funny, even knowing that it was a false meme. Harris has not tried to promote it seriously, and neither will Walz.

Did the audience really know that it was a false statement? And in any case, it was in poor taste.

You never really express outrage when Trump engages in this kind of pettiness, but now, all of a sudden, your outrage bubbles up when a Democrat uses mockery in what was clearly not a serious attack on his opponent.

I do not expect better from Trump. I never voted for him, and I don't plan to start now.
But I do expect better from Democrats. I voted for Obama twice, I voted for Biden.

It was far from crude, since he never tried to talk about what "the couch" meant. It was subtle. You really need to get a sense of humor. Anyone who takes that meme seriously is an idiot, but it is still funny that Vance can't seem to make light of it. He has every right to do so.

Would you feel the same if a similar joke was made about Kamala? Should she also have a sense of humor about it and just "make light of it"?

They would be wrong to claim that a dropped DUI charge was proof of DUI, and that is exactly how Republicans played this. But you are right that some Democrats would also try to make hay with it. I doubt that the Harris/Walz campaign would pursue it, if they knew that the DUI had been dropped by the judge, but they would certainly point to the guilty plea of reckless driving.

It wasn't dropped, it was pled down. Saying it was dropped implies lack of evidence. This was a plea deal. Is Walz himself even claiming that he wasn't drunk that night?

Still, this happened over two decades ago, and Walz did offer to resign his teaching job when it happened. His resignation was rejected, and he reportedly became a teetotaler after that arrest.

More indication that he, indeed was driving drunk, despite the sweetheart plea deal.

He did not. He was a command sgt major on the day he retired. He had been promoted, but the army automatically demoted him for not having finished the coursework to qualify.

Seems like a bunch of hair splitting. He was not qualified for the promotion, and he should not have claimed that rank.

No, it is an explanation for why sexual innuendo is more damaging to women to men. The double standard explains the sexism. You don't get it.

I get it. I just disagree that it is the case in today's day and age. There is a difference.

 

[Rhea]

Bullshit. If preferences are given to non-whites and women in order to increase their proportion, that discriminates against white men by definition.

If barriers that prevented non-whites and women from getting jobs are removed, that discriminates against white men?

No.

DEI is about removing the historical barriers, sometimes by going beyond asking nicely and instead requiring that they be removed, and restoring actual merit as the goal.

When you are used to privilege, equality feels like oppression. You screech to the hills every day that you feel this to your white, immigrant, bones.

 

[Rhea]

It’s interesting, yet predictable, how different people react to DEI efforts.

It reminds me of a department I once worked adjacent to where the manager swore up and down that he just could not find a qualified Black person to hire, and that this was not his fault, it was because they just didn’t exist. And that this had persisted, reasonably, in his mind, for 35 years. He tried, but that one Black woman he’d hired that one time was just terrible and that sort of proves his whole point, amirite? Notwitstanding that he never tried to vet her, he just “was forced to take” the first Black candidate he found, then he treated her like shit and undermined everything she contributed until she quit, when he then proclaimed, “see? I told you.”

In THIRTY FIVE YEARS, he could not find a single qualified Black person for his team. And this was not his fault, at all, and any attempts to insist that his department should include a person of color (or a woman) were attempts at meritless reverse descrimination in his opinion.


He was sure of it. He already knew Good Employees would never be Black. (Or female, or hispanic) and DEI was wrong.


You remind me of him, Derec.

 

[laughing dog]

You said nothing about the mother's citizenship.

The question "Was Shyamala an Indian or an American?" depends on citizenship status.

Not if it is a question of ethnicity or heritage.

 

[laughing dog]

The Brown - Harris romantic relationship ended in 1995 which is almost 30 years ago. Its relevance to Ms Harris’s qualifications and fitness for the Presidency or her policies has yet to be explained.

The relevance of a 30 year old DUI reduced to reckless driving to Mr Wakz’s qualifications or fitness for the Vice Presidency or his policies has yet to be explained.

Repetition of the slanderous lies about the timing of his retirement from the national guard after they gave been openly debunked while whining about a subtle joke over a rumor or defending a misogynistic irrelevant smear is epically ironic.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch" applies also to military and police force.

Indeed. But nobody is calling it "free police force" or "free military". It is understood they cost considerable tax moneys.

Everyone understands that free school lunches cost tax money. Lmao and you're complaining about sophistry?

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Bullshit. Leftists are all about race-based policies.

Certainly explains why leftists support things like "medicare for all" which means everyone regardless of race etc.

 

[Ford]

The Brown - Harris romantic relationship ended in 1995 which is almost 30 years ago. Its relevance to Ms Harris’s qualifications and fitness for the Presidency or her policies has yet to be explained.

The relevance of a 30 year old DUI reduced to reckless driving to Mr Wakz’s qualifications or fitness for the Vice Presidency or his policies has yet to be explained.

Repetition of the slanderous lies about the timing of his retirement from the national guard after they gave been openly debunked while whining about a subtle joke over a rumor or defending a misogynistic irrelevant smear is epically ironic.

It smacks of desperation. The Harris/Walz ticket is dominating the news right now, while Trump's first public appearance in awhile was a rambling presser where he claimed his J6 crowd was bigger than the March on Washington.

The GOP is throwing a lot of pasta at a lot of walls, and nothing is sticking.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You said nothing about the mother's citizenship.

The question "Was Shyamala an Indian or an American?" depends on citizenship status.
We cannot call S. Chandrashekhar, the physicist, Kalpana Chawla, Sunita Williams and so many others to be Indians. They were/are 'Indian-origin' American citizen or immigrants.

I didn't realize Chandrashekhar lived in America. Learned something new today. I guess I should have known based on what I did know... either England or US.

She certainly did get ahead by sleeping with "Slick" Willie Brown. But it is anathema even to mention it on here.

Did she sleep with Willie Brown (just that I do not know the story)? Of course, nothing wrong if she did, her right.

If it is okay, why are you asking?

 

[laughing dog]

Walz alluded to the rumor that Vance fucked a couch. To my knowledge, it has been neither been confirmed or denied. That makes it a rumor.
But if you are going to call that "basically a lie", then clearly you are spreading "basically a lie" by saying Ms. Harris fucked her way into a political position.

The first is based in a lie. The second is based in fact - they had a sexual relationship and he helped her career. Those are facts.

Regardless of their basis, in each case the result is made up.

I do not think a DUI is a minor thing. He could have killed somebody driving 90 mph while drunk.

“Coulda” doesn’t count for a 30 It year okd incident with no recurrences.It reveals nothing about Mr Walz today.

 

[jonatha]

it does look like a transactional relationship.

You surely cannot object to that?