Poll Dem VP Pic: your choice?

[Copernicus]

I heard on the radio that Harris really liked Kelly. He has an incredibly impressive background. However, I guess he is not a dynamic on the speech stump. Shapiro is very dynamic speaker. Walz is pretty good. The report said that the final three were Kelly, Walz and Shapiro. Final two were Walz and Shapiro. But Harris had a closer connection and gut feeling with Walz.

Wouldnt you be inclined to call her gut feeling correct at this point? I was kinda leaning toward Shapiro because he would tear Cheato and/or Vance to shreds. But Walz’ populist conservo-liberalism is hard to beat, for the moment at hand. Certainly more important than my love of popcorn.

Yes. Harris and Walz are doing very well. I'm excited. However, I'm sure that there will be some downs coming. There is a lot more bullshit swiftboating coming. If we lose Pennsylvania, there will be second guessing. But there is no doubt that he is adding to the ticket. It feels excellent right now!

I don't see the swiftboating as having the same traction that it did with John Kerrey. Neither Walz nor Vance saw any combat during their service, and Walz would likely not have ended up on the front lines in Iraq, if he had stayed in. In fact, he filed papers to run for Congress in February 2005, at the same time that he filed retirement papers. So he had clearly made a decision to change careers, not to avoid combat, as Vance has been trying to claim. And Vance himself did not volunteer to go into combat. He has said that he was lucky not to have been sent to combat, and his job in Public Affairs did not expose him to any danger. Nevertheless, I'm sure the topic will be raised by moderators during the debates. The press seems to feel that it ought to have traction with the public.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

More on "Tampon Tim". It isn't even remotely as alleged, surprised? In general, schools don't even put them in boys restrooms.

I honestly think Walz should open his convention speech with this. "Hi! You all might know me as 'Tampon Tim'. Some of our opponents seem to think it is an insult because I signed legislation that helps provide some very basic needs for teenaged girls. Well, I don't!"

 

[GenesisNemesis]

I take this to mean you will continue in willfully and knowingly spread falsehoods?

No. I will, however, continue to willfully and knowingly refuse to split hairs.

Lol post 742 has you splitting a hair about Mr Burrell becoming a drug addict in prison.

And the “factoid” of Mr Ellison bring a Muslim was relevant because….?

He's also split hairs about free school lunches "not *really* being free!!!"

 

[Derec]

He's also split hairs about free school lunches "not *really* being free!!!"

That's not splitting hairs. It's a core principle that too many people ignore when they propose more and more generous government programs.
Like Kamala just today with her proposal to give cash to first time home buyers.
Harris to propose up to $25K in down-payment support for 1st-time homebuyers

She also wants to revive the expanded child tax credits. Unfortunately, we won't have Manchin and Sinema to save us this time.

 

[Derec]

But Harris had a closer connection and gut feeling with Walz.

And as we have seen in 2019, her gut does not make good decisions.

 

[Derec]

I'm satisfied with the way this decades-old incident turned out. But you think it has some bearing on his suitability for office in 2024. I think it was a past experience that put a blemish on his record and changed him for the better.

I think it has some bearing on his character and judgments, yes. He was 31, not some teenager, for one.
Whether the experience changed him for the better, I do not know.

Yes, ad hominem fallacies are often used to charge people with hypocrisy. What Kavanaugh did in his past has nothing to do with what Walz did in his.

It is not an ad hominem.
And you are right - the uncorroborated accusations against Kav have nothing to do with Walz.
But the apoplectic way Dems reacted to these accusations against Kav - despite being 30 years old, not corroborated and from the time he was 17 stand in stark contrast to how quick Dems are to dismiss any relevance to 30 year old proven (via BAC) DUI when he was 31.

Nor does your comparison have the slightest bearing on whether we should take the Walz DUI seriously. Should we also say that those who failed to take the Kavanaugh charge seriously are now hypocrites for taking the Walz charge seriously? Who cares?

Well, Kav wasn't charged, much less convicted. It is understandable why one would care less about the Kav accusations than about Walz' DUI - how young Kav was and also lack of any corroborating evidence. And that only heightens the hypocrisy of those who wanted to crucify Kav but have no issue with Walz.

At no point did he show unwillingness to quell the violence. That is your invention, based on the right wing sources of information that you seem to trust.

And yet the violence persisted. The square was occupied for over a year. This is failure of leadership.

If the same thing happened today, the response would be a lot quicker, thanks to lessons learned from that episode.

I am not so sure. If the rioters are from the right, sure, but if they are from the left again, there will be the same dismissal and calling them "fiery, but mostly peaceful" as they burn down businesses and police stations.

I wasn't saying that you should refrain from criticizing Harris and Walz. I was wondering why you seem more obsessed with criticizing the lesser weevils than the greater weevils. It's almost as if you kind of prefer the greater over the lesser.

The other weevils get more than enough flak on here in almost every thread. On the other hand, there is overwhelming support for Harris/Walz and resistance to any criticism.

 

[Derec]

Walz drove drunk, admitted it, and said he had no excuse.

At the time, yes. But in 2006, his congressional campaign certainly denied he drove drunk and offered his partial deafness as an excuse.
Walz's 2006 campaign made misleading claims on drink-driving arrest

But in 2006, his campaign manager at the time told media that Mr Walz was not drunk when he was pulled over, falsely suggesting it was a misunderstanding.
Mr Walz failed field sobriety and breath tests after the trooper smelled alcohol on his breath, court documents show.
He was then transported to the hospital for a blood test where his blood alcohol level was 0.128% compared to the legal limit of 0.10%, according to court documents.
[...]
His campaign manager at the time suggested Mr Walz was not drunk, saying he could not understand the trooper because of hearing loss from his time serving in the National Guard.
The campaign manager also falsely claimed to the Rochester Post Bulletin that the judge who dismissed the case had criticized the arresting officer for not understanding that Walz had hearing loss.
Walz had ear surgery in 2005 to fix his hearing loss, the Associated Press reported. But court records do not mention that Mr Walz struggled to hear the officer at the time of the arrest.
His campaign at the time also claimed that Mr Walz was allowed to drive himself to jail on the night of the arrest, which was untrue.
Mr Walz reportedly acknowledged that he was drunk at the time of the arrest.
"It's just a dangerous situation," Mr Walz said in a 1996 court transcript of the hearing. "Not just to myself, but to the others who aren't even involved with it."

Kavanagh - deflected, denied, and lied about it.

He denied claims that he attacked CBF. There was no evidence to back up her story.

Uncollaborated??? Believe women.

That's sexist. We should not blindly believe women. Any accusation of a crime requires corroboration, esp. heinous crimes.
And there was none here. Even her friend, Leland Keyser doubts her story.

She told people about it at the time. So in my book that is collaborated. BIG SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE. Admitting you were wrong and owning up to it, is different than lying about it.

She did not tell anybody at the time. That's a falsehood.
She allegedly said something to a shrink, but that was much later.
You do not know that Kav lied about it. I think CBF lied her ass off. We will never know for sure. But we do know Walz blew 0.128%. That much is objective fact.

The George Floyd murder was a tragic stain on our democracy. The protestors shed light on a very significant problem. Whether it should have been handled differently? I'm sure the protestors would have a very different point of view.

People in this country have a right to protest peacefully. Not to vandalize or burn down stores. Not to attack people. Not to barricade streets and occupy a square for over a year. That's not protesting, and these rioters should have been arrested and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Just like 1/6 rioters were. People should not get a pass for their crimes just because of their politics.

Nitpicking and whataboutism seems to be a consistent with these threads from this poster.

BS.

 

[Derec]

Ignore the inderlying racist assumption in your analysis that black gang members are necessarily drug addicts or drug dealers, you are splitting hairs over splitting hairs!

I never said anything of that nature.
I just said that he was already a gang member when he was arrested for murdering Tyesha Edwards. So he can't blame prison for turning him onto the activities that led to his drugs and gun charges, as Copernicus implied.

Another example of bigoted “ post hoc, ergo prompter hoc”.

No, that is not bigoted. Nation of Islam, with which Ellison has ties, is bigoted.

 

[Copernicus]

...

I wasn't saying that you should refrain from criticizing Harris and Walz. I was wondering why you seem more obsessed with criticizing the lesser weevils than the greater weevils. It's almost as if you kind of prefer the greater over the lesser.

The other weevils get more than enough flak on here in almost every thread. On the other hand, there is overwhelming support for Harris/Walz and resistance to any criticism.

I think we've said more than enough about Kavanaugh here, and your remarks on the rioters are ones that you've argued over at length in other threads. According to the analyses I've read of Walz's response to the unprecedented violence caused by the George Floyd murder, he did the best he could with the tools he had in place at the time. We just judge that behavior differently in hindsight.

You want to charge people here with hypocrisy and not call it an ad hominem attack. I think that is exactly an ad hominem attack. Whether or not there is overwhelming support for Harris/Walz here may strike you as in need of correction, but I have seen nothing from you that tends to curb my enthusiasm. I just wondered at your rather loud silence on the subject of what bothers you about the other side of the ticket. I would be surprised, if I ever found myself voting for a candidate that had no flaws in his or her background. It is impossible to get through life with making some mistakes, so it seems reasonable to dwell on a candidate's imperfections only if they have a bearing on how I decide to vote. If you can't think of worse things to say about Trump/Vance, then maybe you ought to be voting for them instead of Harris/Walz.

 

[pood]

He's also split hairs about free school lunches "not *really* being free!!!"

That's not splitting hairs. It's a core principle that too many people ignore when they propose more and more generous government programs.
Like Kamala just today with her proposal to give cash to first time home buyers.
Harris to propose up to $25K in down-payment support for 1st-time homebuyers

She also wants to revive the expanded child tax credits. Unfortunately, we won't have Manchin and Sinema to save us this time.

OF course it’s not free. We simply vastly expand taxes on the rich.

 

[Copernicus]

She also wants to revive the expanded child tax credits. Unfortunately, we won't have Manchin and Sinema to save us this time.

If we did, then I would be pleading for us to be saved from Manchin and Sinema.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

He's also split hairs about free school lunches "not *really* being free!!!"

That's not splitting hairs. It's a core principle that too many people ignore when they propose more and more generous government programs.
Like Kamala just today with her proposal to give cash to first time home buyers.
Harris to propose up to $25K in down-payment support for 1st-time homebuyers

She also wants to revive the expanded child tax credits. Unfortunately, we won't have Manchin and Sinema to save us this time.

OF course it’s not free. We simply vastly expand taxes on the rich.

That makes you an EVIL MARXIST (totally not a Trumpian attitude to say this btw).

 

[Rhea]

But Harris had a closer connection and gut feeling with Walz.

And as we have seen in 2019, her gut does not make good decisions.

You (say you) want her to win.
WHy are you trying to make people not vote for her?


Make this make sense!!!!

 

[Elixir]

Make this make sense!!!!

Well, it’s a really really close call …
Felon?
Prosecutor?
Hmmmm.
Prosecutor… felon …
It’s really hard, you know!

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I had previously held the position that rapes reported long after the fact were inherently unable to be proven due to a lack of evidence. But Kavanaugh managed to convince me of his guilt.

Surely you feel that way because of who nominated him. In reality, there was no corroboration for CBF's claims, and even her friend is skeptical that it ever happened.

No. She did not convince me of the truth of her claim. Rather, Kavanaugh convinced me he was lying about it. Do I know what happened? No. But since I'm convinced he's lying the reasonable conclusion is she is telling the truth.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Walz really waltzed right into this one:

Walz once praised Muslim leader who shared antisemitic propaganda

I worry about how the Democrats react to Islamist things. But that's tiny compared to Project 2025.

 

[Rhea]

I had previously held the position that rapes reported long after the fact were inherently unable to be proven due to a lack of evidence. But Kavanaugh managed to convince me of his guilt.

Surely you feel that way because of who nominated him. In reality, there was no corroboration for CBF's claims, and even her friend is skeptical that it ever happened.

No. She did not convince me of the truth of her claim. Rather, Kavanaugh convinced me he was lying about it. Do I know what happened? No. But since I'm convinced he's lying the reasonable conclusion is she is telling the truth.

But wait! Derec was SURE it was only because you hated Trump! Because the woman cannot be believed!
Oh, wait, there’s a way out…. No, no, it was because the man convinced him.

 

[laughing dog]

Ignore the inderlying racist assumption in your analysis that black gang members are necessarily drug addicts or drug dealers, you are splitting hairs over splitting hairs!

I never said anything of that nature.
I just said that he was already a gang member when he was arrested for murdering Tyesha Edwards. So he can't blame prison for turning him onto the activities that led to his drugs and gun charges, as Copernicus implied.

That is illogical. Being in a gang does not necessarily lead to eventual drug or gun use. More bigoted hair splitting on your part.

Another example of bigoted “ post hoc, ergo prompter hoc”.

No, that is not bigoted. Nation of Islam, with which Ellison has ties, is bigoted.

A whataboutism hobbyhorse!!!

Moreover, Ellison had ties with the Nation of Islam but denounced the NOi in 2006. He has called his association with Farrakhan “a mistake from his past”. Got anymore weak sauce guilt by association smears?

 

[laughing dog]

The other weevils get more than enough flak on here in almost every thread. On the other hand, there is overwhelming support for Harris/Walz and resistance to any criticism.

Interesting , an opponent of DEI engaging in DEI based criticism.

 

[Elixir]

Walz really waltzed right into this one:

Walz once praised Muslim leader who shared antisemitic propaganda

I worry about how the Democrats react to Islamist things. But that's tiny compared to Project 2025.

But just so you know you’re getting badly damaged goods if you get Kami the Black Indian Lady and her sidekick elected.
Thanks, Derec.