Democrats 2020

[southernhybrid]

We should pin or highlight this thread so we can all revisit it once Bernie is the clear front runner and set to clinch the nomination. I predict many of those now saying vote blue no matter who will suddenly reverse that sentiment along with the DNC and Hillary, Biden, Kerry, etc.

You are wrong. Those of us who are saying "vote blue not matter who" really mean it. And, as Rhea has tried to explain, this has nothing to do with our undying allegiance to the Democratic Party. It's about this specific election and this extremely dangerous president.

As I've said before, I have many reasons why I am not a supporter of Sanders, but if he becomes the nominee, I will vote for him. I will vote for him because I see him as less dangerous than the person who currently occupies the WH. I will vote for him because I believe he won't try to act like a dictator, and will have to work with the Congress, which is far more moderate than he is, to get anything done.

I have a neighbor who lived in Massachusetts for 40 years. She is a Democrat who hates Sanders, but I have convinced her that she must vote for him if he becomes the nominee. She has agreed that his presidency would be far less dangerous than Trumps. So, not only will I vote blue no matter who, I have made it my little mission to convince others to do the same.

The potential problem are the Sanders supporters. If the polls are valid, only 53% of Sanders supporters are saying they will vote for the nominee if it isn't Sanders. I am hoping if they don't get their dream candidate, they will get over it, and vote for whoever runs against Trump. Otherwise, they are complicit in giving Trump a second term.

So, it's not the more moderate voters who are the problem here. Most of us have enough life experiences to understand the importance of supporting the candidate who will do the least amount of harm, even if we don't like that candidate. It's the voters who don't understand the art and importance of compromise that concern me.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

We should pin or highlight this thread so we can all revisit it once Bernie is the clear front runner and set to clinch the nomination. I predict many of those now saying vote blue no matter who will suddenly reverse that sentiment along with the DNC and Hillary, Biden, Kerry, etc.

You are wrong.

They do have a reputation to maintain.

 

[lpetrich]

From back in 2016,
5 Reasons Why Trump Will Win | MICHAEL MOORE

I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I gave it to you straight last summer when I told you that Donald Trump would be the Republican nominee for president. And now I have even more awful, depressing news for you: Donald J. Trump is going to win in November. This wretched, ignorant, dangerous part-time clown and full time sociopath is going to be our next president. President Trump. Go ahead and say the words, ‘cause you’ll be saying them for the next four years: “PRESIDENT TRUMP.”

Never in my life have I wanted to be proven wrong more than I do right now.

...
Here are the 5 reasons Trump is going to win:

• Midwest Math, or Welcome to Our Rust Belt Brexit. I believe Trump is going to focus much of his attention on the four blue states in the rustbelt of the upper Great Lakes – Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. Four traditionally Democratic states – but each of them have elected a Republican governor since 2010 (only Pennsylvania has now finally elected a Democrat).
• The Last Stand of the Angry White Man. Our male-dominated, 240-year run of the USA is coming to an end. A woman is about to take over! How did this happen?! On our watch!
• The Hillary Problem. Can we speak honestly, just among ourselves? And before we do, let me state, I actually like Hillary – a lot – and I think she has been given a bad rap she doesn’t deserve. But her vote for the Iraq War made me promise her that I would never vote for her again.
• The Depressed Sanders Vote. Stop fretting about Bernie’s supporters not voting for Clinton – we’re voting for Clinton! The polls already show that more Sanders voters will vote for Hillary this year than the number of Hillary primary voters in ’08 who then voted for Obama.
• The Jesse Ventura Effect. Finally, do not discount the electorate’s ability to be mischievous or underestimate how any millions fancy themselves as closet anarchists once they draw the curtain and are all alone in the voting booth.

Coming back to the hotel after appearing on Bill Maher’s Republican Convention special this week on HBO, a man stopped me. “Mike,” he said, “we have to vote for Trump. We HAVE to shake things up.” That was it. That was enough for him. To “shake things up.” President Trump would indeed do just that, and a good chunk of the electorate would like to sit in the bleachers and watch that reality show.

Michael Moore Interviews Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Parkland Survivors in New 'Fahrenheit 11/9' Trailer

It’s that time again, folks: Michael Moore is releasing a new documentary. Fahrenheit 11/9 (a reference to the date of Trump’s election) will be released in theaters September 21st. In the trailer, Moore refers to Trump as the “last president of the United States,” alluding to a cataclysm that may befall our country under his rule if nothing is done to prevent it.

 

[Toni]

Warren strikes me as a good legislator and a weak campaigner. I do think she should be in whoever the winner's cabinet is. I don't think she should be the nominee.

She is actually one of the better campaigners in the running. She knows how to inspire people and appeal to moderate conservatives, but you have to actually listen to her rather than the commentary on her speeches. She has made some blunders, e.g. her stupid blood test challenge and her more recent evasiveness about raising taxes to support her health plan. On balance, however, she does really well in her interactions with audiences.

I believe that Toni's article from the Atlantic made a good point about what sank her in the polls--her efforts to align too closely with Sanders. Sanders was much better in defending his program by simply admitting that it would raise taxes and then explaining why that wasn't a bad thing. Warren wasn't prepared to admit that in Iowa, although she had been more straightforward about it in past months. If she doesn't turn her sinking image around soon, it will be too late for her to recover.

The Differences Between Warren and Sanders Matter

One of the things that I appreciate about Warren is her ability to learn and grow from knowledge and understanding gained and from life experiences. She started out with a particular mind set and saw how this affected real people in seriously bad ways. This is a strength, to me, and one that is too often unacknowledged and even denied.

Sanders comes off as too entrenched in his own positions and unable or unwilling to listen to other people. This makes him somewhat effective as a gadfly or provocateur but not as POTUS.

The other thing that I feel compelled to bring up in every thread about Sanders is his age. He's 78. Warren is 71. I think both are older than they should be to be POTUS but I also know that there is a big difference in terms of stamina between 78 and 71. His age absolutely disqualifies him, IMO. Sure, I'll hold my nose and vote for him, assuming he has someone decent as his running mate. I have zero personal confidence that he would a) survive his first term in decent enough shape to carry out the duties of POTUS and b) be effective in any way other than to hand 2024 to the GOP.

 

[Politesse]

I must note two more Bernie Sanders surrogates: Mark Pocan and Ro Khanna. Thus giving us

Reps. AOC, Rashida Tlaib, Ilhan Omar, Pramila Jayapal, Ro Khanna, Mark Pocan
Also author Michael Moore

I remember wanting to like one of MM's books, but I found it unsourced, so that's why I couldn't recommend it. It wasn't even sourced in an informal sort of way. But AOC and MM together reminded me of a MTV year-end wrap-up from 1985(?). It started with Madonna and ended with Bruce Springsteen.

• AOC = Madonna
• MM = Bruce Springsteen

MM predicted in 2016 that Trump would win, not because he liked Trump, but because he thought that Trump did a better job of seeming to be concerned about the plight of many Rust-Belt working-class people.

MICHAEL MOORE - his home page. Also  Michael Moore
His documentaries:

• Roger & Me
• Pets or Meat: The Return to Flint
• Canadian Bacon
• The Big One
• Bowling for Columbine
• Fahrenheit 9/11
• Sicko
• Captain Mike Across America and Slacker Uprising
• Capitalism: A Love Story
• Where to Invade Next
• Michael Moore in TrumpLand
• Fahrenheit 11/9

His books:

• Downsize This!
• Adventures in a TV Nation
• Stupid White Men
• Dude, Where's My Country?
• The Official Fahrenheit 9/11 Reader
• Will They Ever Trust Us Again?
• Mike's Election Guide 2008
• Here Comes Trouble

About Roger & Me:

In 1989, Michael Moore burst onto the American moviemaking scene with Roger & Me. The groundbreaking documentary chronicled the efforts of the world’s largest corporation, General Motors, as it turns its hometown of Flint, Michigan, into a ghost town. In his quest to discover why GM would want to do such a thing, Michael Moore – a Flint native – attempts to meet the chairman, Roger Smith, and persuade him to come and visit Flint to see the destruction first-hand.

Ro Khanna is my representative! I was pleasantly surprised when he popped up at the Sanders rally yesterday, as I hadn't heard that he was on the road for him now.

He took down an eight-term incumbent Democrat in 2016, surprising everyone, so I'm not surprised he caught Sander's notice and vice versa.

 

[Politesse]

We should pin or highlight this thread so we can all revisit it once Bernie is the clear front runner and set to clinch the nomination. I predict many of those now saying vote blue no matter who will suddenly reverse that sentiment along with the DNC and Hillary, Biden, Kerry, etc.

You are wrong. Those of us who are saying "vote blue not matter who" really mean it. And, as Rhea has tried to explain, this has nothing to do with our undying allegiance to the Democratic Party. It's about this specific election and this extremely dangerous president.

As I've said before, I have many reasons why I am not a supporter of Sanders, but if he becomes the nominee, I will vote for him. I will vote for him because I see him as less dangerous than the person who currently occupies the WH. I will vote for him because I believe he won't try to act like a dictator, and will have to work with the Congress, which is far more moderate than he is, to get anything done.

I have a neighbor who lived in Massachusetts for 40 years. She is a Democrat who hates Sanders, but I have convinced her that she must vote for him if he becomes the nominee. She has agreed that his presidency would be far less dangerous than Trumps. So, not only will I vote blue no matter who, I have made it my little mission to convince others to do the same.

The potential problem are the Sanders supporters. If the polls are valid, only 53% of Sanders supporters are saying they will vote for the nominee if it isn't Sanders. I am hoping if they don't get their dream candidate, they will get over it, and vote for whoever runs against Trump. Otherwise, they are complicit in giving Trump a second term.

So, it's not the more moderate voters who are the problem here. Most of us have enough life experiences to understand the importance of supporting the candidate who will do the least amount of harm, even if we don't like that candidate. It's the voters who don't understand the art and importance of compromise that concern me.

Ah, yes the good old fashioned one-time-emergency cession of power. I'm sure we'll never hear that catchy little slogan again. Conservative Democrats will stop finger wagging at Progressives, demanding unearned votes from minorities just because they're minorities, and insisting that catering to Republicans is the only way to be electable, just as soon as Trump Is Out of Office. Even if as seems likely its one of Trump's cronies, Pence, Ivanka, whoever, the crisis will be over and loyalty oaths no longer demanded just as soon as Trump is Out of Office. We'll stop letting billionaires buy seats and look the other way when they ignore the rules just as soon as Trump is Out of Office. In 2024 the Centrists will only chant "vote blue if you want to", just as soon as Trump is Out of Office.

 

[Rhea]

The other thing that I feel compelled to bring up in every thread about Sanders is his age. He's 78. Warren is 71. I think both are older than they should be to be POTUS but I also know that there is a big difference in terms of stamina between 78 and 71. His age absolutely disqualifies him, IMO. Sure, I'll hold my nose and vote for him, assuming he has someone decent as his running mate. I have zero personal confidence that he would a) survive his first term in decent enough shape to carry out the duties of POTUS and b) be effective in any way other than to hand 2024 to the GOP.

To be accurate, there is an wven bigger difference between a male 78yo and a female 71yo. There’s a gender gap in old age.

 

[Elixir]

I have zero personal confidence that he would a) survive his first term in decent enough shape to carry out the duties of POTUS and b) be effective in any way other than to hand 2024 to the GOP.

That's why he needs to select AOC as his running mate. That would make their average age about 54. Perfect.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I have zero personal confidence that he would a) survive his first term in decent enough shape to carry out the duties of POTUS and b) be effective in any way other than to hand 2024 to the GOP.

That's why he needs to select AOC as his running mate. That would make their average age about 54. Perfect.

And he just might.

 

[ZiprHead]

I have zero personal confidence that he would a) survive his first term in decent enough shape to carry out the duties of POTUS and b) be effective in any way other than to hand 2024 to the GOP.

That's why he needs to select AOC as his running mate. That would make their average age about 54. Perfect.

Isn't AOC too young to be president? If she's not qualified to be president, she cannot be the VP.

 

[PyramidHead]

I have zero personal confidence that he would a) survive his first term in decent enough shape to carry out the duties of POTUS and b) be effective in any way other than to hand 2024 to the GOP.

That's why he needs to select AOC as his running mate. That would make their average age about 54. Perfect.

Isn't AOC too young to be president? If she's not qualified to be president, she cannot be the VP.

Exactly. Rashida Tlaib would make a better running mate if only for the optics of a Jewish president with a Palestinian running mate, and a gleaming double-bladed sword in the shape of a middle finger to Clinton and her fellow war criminal ghouls.

I could also see Nina Turner getting the pick. They are a fantastic team and she has proven very effective at delivering Bernie's platform to its intended audience.

 

[ZiprHead]

Isn't AOC too young to be president? If she's not qualified to be president, she cannot be the VP.

Exactly. Rashida Tlaib would make a better running mate if only for the optics of a Jewish president with a Palestinian running mate, and a gleaming double-bladed sword in the shape of a middle finger to Clinton and her fellow war criminal ghouls.

I could also see Nina Turner getting the pick. They are a fantastic team and she has proven very effective at delivering Bernie's platform to its intended audience.

Neither of those would be good running mates to win the election.

And can you please give up the war criminal bullshit?

 

[PyramidHead]

Isn't AOC too young to be president? If she's not qualified to be president, she cannot be the VP.

Exactly. Rashida Tlaib would make a better running mate if only for the optics of a Jewish president with a Palestinian running mate, and a gleaming double-bladed sword in the shape of a middle finger to Clinton and her fellow war criminal ghouls.

I could also see Nina Turner getting the pick. They are a fantastic team and she has proven very effective at delivering Bernie's platform to its intended audience.

Neither of those would be good running mates to win the election.

And can you please give up the war criminal bullshit?

No

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

And can you please give up the war criminal bullshit?

No

You guys should have a debate in the debate forum.

 

[Elixir]

I have zero personal confidence that he would a) survive his first term in decent enough shape to carry out the duties of POTUS and b) be effective in any way other than to hand 2024 to the GOP.

That's why he needs to select AOC as his running mate. That would make their average age about 54. Perfect.

Isn't AOC too young to be president? If she's not qualified to be president, she cannot be the VP.

Is that right? I thought the law was you couldn't RUN for president until you're 35. Besides, it's legal to break the law now - Trump sez.

 

[Politesse]

Isn't AOC too young to be president? If she's not qualified to be president, she cannot be the VP.

Is that right? I thought the law was you couldn't RUN for president until you're 35. Besides, it's legal to break the law now - Trump sez.

Nope, the 12th Amendment is quite clear that the exact same qualifications apply to both offices.

Aaron Burr was a sonuvabitch, is what we're saying.

 

[blastula]

Warren strikes me as a good legislator and a weak campaigner. I do think she should be in whoever the winner's cabinet is. I don't think she should be the nominee.

She is actually one of the better campaigners in the running. She knows how to inspire people and appeal to moderate conservatives, but you have to actually listen to her rather than the commentary on her speeches. She has made some blunders, e.g. her stupid blood test challenge and her more recent evasiveness about raising taxes to support her health plan. On balance, however, she does really well in her interactions with audiences.

I believe that Toni's article from the Atlantic made a good point about what sank her in the polls--her efforts to align too closely with Sanders. Sanders was much better in defending his program by simply admitting that it would raise taxes and then explaining why that wasn't a bad thing. Warren wasn't prepared to admit that in Iowa, although she had been more straightforward about it in past months. If she doesn't turn her sinking image around soon, it will be too late for her to recover.

Totally agree. Warren was my favorite for a while but she has shown she has terrible political instincts, with the DNA debacle and then the rube goldberg healthcare plan. She deserves to lose now.

 

[blastula]

It is not my fault if the Democrats refuse to field a candidate who is popular.

Do you mean the Democratic voters refused to?

 

[blastula]

Nowhere is the left's collective insanity more prominently displayed than in it's fanatical hatred of President Trump. Leftists hated Presidents Nixon, Reagan, and the Bushes, and you might be surprised to review the level of vitriol they leveled at each of them, but their antipathy for the Trump is radically more intense. He is their worst enemy, but they hide behind their disdain for his his crudeness and tweets to disguise their greater outrage at his conservative policies and counter punching.

If only the Trump would do their bidding, it's guaranteed they wouldn't have the slightest problem with his manners. If only he eliminated borders and put every other country first and above America, something like Obuma did with his apologetic speech in Cairo just a few short weeks after his victory where the Muzzie Brotherhood had front row seats, all would be fine. There would be no attempt at removing a democratically elected President intermediately had they had the numbers in the House the day after he moved into the White House.

This Dem insanity will devastate their party for perhaps more than a decade. Deservedly so!

You should stop plagiarizing from idiots. If you want to sound like an idiot, at least use your own words.

 

[Politesse]

It is not my fault if the Democrats refuse to field a candidate who is popular.

Do you mean the Democratic voters refused to?

No, I'm fine with a truly democratic vote. It's manipulation by the party itself that I would not be not okay with.