Discrimination -- the reality

[Toni]

People on this forum and elsewhere often seem puzzled when, say, blacks or women vote Republican, they are voting against their self interests. Or as Sunny Hostin on The View* so eloquently puts it, "White women voting Republican is like roaches voting for Raid". Based on this survey in the OP, couldn't the same be said of white men (and white women)? Why would whites want to be voting Democrat when discriminating against white people seems to be embraced and normalized by the party? Or at least not outright condemned. Seems to me to be a losing strategy if the Democrat party wants to maintain power going forward. White people are still a substantial share of the US population, and want/need a fair chance at getting employment.

Simple, the discrimination is near non-existent and has such a negligible impact on our lives that your consistent insistence on how bad it is seems delusional.

I have never been refused a job, a loan, entrance into a college because I was white. I'm surrounded by lots of people who also white, that managed to become career professionals despite this alleged discrimination. They applied to colleges, got into the colleges, allowed to graduate. Got internships, applied for and received employment. All despite this alleged handicap... as if that discriminations is nearly non-existent and its impact on the opportunities available to white people is virtually nil.

Your talking about a Plessy v Ferguson world... I'm living in the actual one.

Nice anecdotes. Thanks for sharing. Here's mine. My grandpa smoked a pack of cigarettes a day for 60 years and lived to be 95 when he got hit by a bus. So, therefore the "smoking causes lung cancer" thing seems waqy overblown to me.

How do you explain the survey results? The survey results are not de minimus as you seem to suggesting.

I'll just leave this bit of irrelevant information here.

Unemployment rate in the United States in 2021, by ethnicity
View attachment 41134

You're just proving that black people are lazy. -Metaphor, probably.

Or cultural... which makes one ponder why alcoholism became "a thing" for the Indigenous in the United States... when it wasn't as much an issue before the assimilation.

Yeah, nothing like access to an addictive substance to ferret out any genetic predisposition to addiction and then reinforced by...well, statutory enforced poverty.

 

[Toni]

Explain that to me like I'm stupid.

Sure.

Most black Americans are the descendants of the Africans who weren't smart, motivated, or quick enough to escape being enslaved by other Africans.

Then the black slavers sold them to EuroColonialists who shipped them to the Americas.

That's the version for the stupid. Nothing about changing the genetics, it's just about the selection process.
Tom

Before Trump broke Poe, I'd think this was being a joke. Today, I'm uncertain.

I’m not.

For a surprisingly (and depressingly) large segment of the US population, it is not joke. The fascinating thing about that argument is the immigrants from Europe or Latin America descended from people who were not quick enough or smart enough to avoid "peon"/"serf" labor. So there really is no reason to expect a difference in "average ability" between the enslaved Africans brought to the US and the immigrants to the US other than their different races. Hmmmm.

You're forgetting religious zealots.

Of course they are only referring to descendants of already prosperous merchants and businessmen looking for new opportunities, free land....and cheap labor.

 

[atrib]

My observation is that in my state, white people cannot do enough to prove how not racist they are ....with regards to black people who immigrated from Africa and their children. You know: the ones who came here the 'right' way. Not the ones who descended from enslaved people.

Alternately, there's a difference in the two populations.

Hint: Immigrants tend to be above average. Slaves have no such benefit.

WTF Loren. WTactual Fuck. NO BODY has been a slave in this country (legally) for over 150 years.

I can't even......

I don't see what your problem is.

Immigrants in general are self-selected to be superior.

Slaves and refugees are not.

Genetics exists.

Thus slaves and refugees and their descendants would be expected to be average, and thus perform below immigrants.

So black people in America descended from slaves are stupid compared to their white neighbors, and black immigrants from other countries?

 

[TomC]

But please, keep making it about "genetics".

I didn't make it about genetics. I quoted Toni's post making it about genetics.
Tom

 

[Toni]

Explain that to me like I'm stupid.

Sure.

Most black Americans are the descendants of the Africans who weren't smart, motivated, or quick enough to escape being enslaved by other Africans.

Then the black slavers sold them to EuroColonialists who shipped them to the Americas.

That's the version for the stupid. Nothing about changing the genetics, it's just about the selection process.
Tom

Before Trump broke Poe, I'd think this was being a joke. Today, I'm uncertain.

I’m not.

For a surprisingly (and depressingly) large segment of the US population, it is not joke. The fascinating thing about that argument is the immigrants from Europe or Latin America descended from people who were not quick enough or smart enough to avoid "peon"/"serf" labor. So there really is no reason to expect a difference in "average ability" between the enslaved Africans brought to the US and the immigrants to the US other than their different races. Hmmmm.

I think it's like Trump always said: John McCain was a loser for allowing himself to be captured. He should have been smart enough to be born to a ruthless and wealthy father who would pull strings with admissions and draft boards.

 

[atrib]

My observation is that in my state, white people cannot do enough to prove how not racist they are ....with regards to black people who immigrated from Africa and their children. You know: the ones who came here the 'right' way. Not the ones who descended from enslaved people.

Alternately, there's a difference in the two populations.

Hint: Immigrants tend to be above average. Slaves have no such benefit.

WTF Loren. WTactual Fuck. NO BODY has been a slave in this country (legally) for over 150 years.

I can't even......

I don't see what your problem is.

Immigrants in general are self-selected to be superior.

Slaves and refugees are not.

Genetics exists.

Thus slaves and refugees and their descendants would be expected to be average, and thus perform below immigrants.

Can you explain to me how being kidnapped/taken prisoner and forced into the hull of a ship and sailed across oceans to be sold/resold into slavery...changes genetics? Are you under the impression that only 'lesser' individuals from West Central Africa were sold into slavery? And their 'genetic betters' managed to avoid being so captured and sold (or sold the 'lesser' individuals) and now those who managed not to be enslaved have decided to immigrate, their genetics are somehow better?

Explain that to me like I'm stupid.

He can't explain shit. He is pulling shit from his ass and pretending that nobody can smell it.

 

[ZiprHead]

Ask the native Indians how good their government programs have helped them out?

My wife is a native American. We get the monthly tribal newspaper. Virtually every issue contains stories about federal or state government programs that provide help for tribal members. Mostly medical or educational assistance.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

My observation is that in my state, white people cannot do enough to prove how not racist they are ....with regards to black people who immigrated from Africa and their children. You know: the ones who came here the 'right' way. Not the ones who descended from enslaved people.

Alternately, there's a difference in the two populations.

Hint: Immigrants tend to be above average. Slaves have no such benefit.

WTF Loren. WTactual Fuck. NO BODY has been a slave in this country (legally) for over 150 years.

I can't even......

I don't see what your problem is.

Immigrants in general are self-selected to be superior.

Slaves and refugees are not.

Genetics exists.

Thus slaves and refugees and their descendants would be expected to be average, and thus perform below immigrants.

So black people in America descended from slaves are stupid compared to their white neighbors, and black immigrants from other countries?

This is verifiable because the Africans that helped enslaved Africans, only enslaved the dumb ones... or was it the tribes they were warring with? One of the two. Regardless, it is a statistical fact that the slaves had to be genetically inferior because... ummm... well... it isn't possible to disprove the assertion. Yeah, that'll hold up in a web board

 

[ZiprHead]

I'll just leave this bit of irrelevant information here.

(Added audio)

View attachment 41135

It seems very curious to me that there is any unemployment right now considering that many of the resaurants in my area will not even let you sit down and only have drive up service. They are claiming because of lack of staff and people to hire!

I bet they could find plenty of people to hire if they paid more in wages and benefits.

 

[atrib]

And note that for young, childless, degreed women we've reached that point--they're outearning their male counterparts even without controlling for profession.

You are making up shit. I work in a 12,000 person employee owned company that strongly believes in, and encourages DIE amongst all employees, and yet the number of female Senior Vice Presidents in the company numbers 3, as opposed to approximately 35 men who hold the same title. I also have have a very good idea what our employees at all levels, male and female, are compensated, and men typically make significantly more than their female counterparts in pretty much all the business groups.

 

[ZiprHead]

1 in 6 Hiring Managers Have Been Told to Stop Hiring White Men - ResumeBuilder.com

More than half of hiring managers whose companies have DEI initiatives in place believe their company practices “reverse discrimination”.

www.resumebuilder.com

We keep hearing the justice warriors saying that it's about ending discrimination. Why are the people doing the hiring being told to discriminate?

I completely agree with you on this.

But you are part of the problem when you vote democrat. The justice warriors are not found in the republican party.

Man, that sounds like Tiki Torch carrying "You will not replace us" stuff.

I would think everyone would want to be a justice warrior.

 

[Metaphor]

And note that for young, childless, degreed women we've reached that point--they're outearning their male counterparts even without controlling for profession.

You are making up shit. I work in a 12,000 person employee owned company that strongly believes in, and encourages DIE amongst all employees, and yet the number of female Senior Vice Presidents in the company numbers 3, as opposed to approximately 35 men who hold the same title. I also have have a very good idea what our employees at all levels, male and female, are compensated, and men typically make significantly more than their female counterparts in pretty much all the business groups.

Why did you decide to continue working for a company that systemically discriminates against women?

 

[bilby]

Explain that to me like I'm stupid.

Sure.

Most black Americans are the descendants of the Africans who weren't smart, motivated, or quick enough to escape being enslaved by other Africans.

Then the black slavers sold them to EuroColonialists who shipped them to the Americas.

That's the version for the stupid. Nothing about changing the genetics, it's just about the selection process.
Tom

Sounds like a lot of white privileged ignorant racism to me. And totally ignores the fact that most Americans descended from enslaved peoples are have European genes which this explanation suggests carry genes for higher intelligence. I guess increased melanin content prevents the expression of those superior genes….

I appreciate the response. I was more interested in Loren’s thoughts…

To be blunt, it wasn't Europe's brightest and bestest who were immigrating to the US in the late 1800s, early 1900s.

Ah yes, but before that, it surely was. I mean, it's not like the English were exporting criminals wholesale to the North American colonies before the Revolutionary War.


Oh, wait.




Shit.







(There's a good reason why Australia became an English penal colony within a dozen years of the US Declaration of Independence - they had run out of places to store all the criminals they could no longer send to America).

 

[bilby]

Nobody ever said America is the descendants of the best and the brightest.

But the bulk of the population is the descendants of the Europeans who decided to flee European culture.

The bulk of the earliest European settlers in North America "decided" to flee European culture because the judge offered that as an alternative to being hanged.

The handful of pilgrims who fled the tyrannical regimes that wouldn't let them impose puritanism on everyone, were a minuscule minority of those who settled in what would later become the USA between the 1620s and the 1760s. The vast bulk of settlers were forcibly shipped out to do the hard labour for those early colonial aristocrats (whose descendants remain a very powerful force in US politics).

Of course, after 1776 the criminals stopped coming; After that, it was mostly people who "chose" to go to America rather than stay home and starve to death in the rubble of their cottages, because the English landlords had declared them to be valueless.

 

[atrib]

Before Trump broke Poe, I'd think this was being a joke. Today, I'm uncertain.

Toni asked specifically for an explanation for the stupid.

Fact remains, my version is demonstrably true. Ugly, but ethics were very primitive. It wasn't just EuroColonialist Christian slavers commiting this global crime against humanity. Most of the human cargo was that made the Transatlantic Passage to slave markets in Charleston were enslaved by Africans.

Wokesters believing that it's all about white racism is just another form of racism.
Tom

And who were these slaves that had allegedly been captured by other black people being sold to? Who was creating the demand for slaves to begin with?

 

[atrib]

Explain that to me like I'm stupid.

Sure.

Most black Americans are the descendants of the Africans who weren't smart, motivated, or quick enough to escape being enslaved by other Africans.

Then the black slavers sold them to EuroColonialists who shipped them to the Americas.

That's the version for the stupid. Nothing about changing the genetics, it's just about the selection process.
Tom

Before Trump broke Poe, I'd think this was being a joke. Today, I'm uncertain.

I grew up thinking that it was only my town, only my family who held such hateful, ignorant racist views.

I now understand how Trump got elected.

Trump got 75 million votes in 2020, when the whole world knew what he was. Racism is alive and well in America, it just gets coated with a thin veneer of civility and politically correct messaging amongst the well heeled, and not even that amongst the Trumpo-fascist cheerleaders who want to make America great white again.

 

[Toni]

Explain that to me like I'm stupid.

Sure.

Most black Americans are the descendants of the Africans who weren't smart, motivated, or quick enough to escape being enslaved by other Africans.

Then the black slavers sold them to EuroColonialists who shipped them to the Americas.

That's the version for the stupid. Nothing about changing the genetics, it's just about the selection process.
Tom

Before Trump broke Poe, I'd think this was being a joke. Today, I'm uncertain.

I grew up thinking that it was only my town, only my family who held such hateful, ignorant racist views.

I now understand how Trump got elected.

Trump got 75 million votes in 2020, when the whole world knew what he was. Racism is alive and well in America, it just gets coated with a thin veneer of civility and politically correct messaging amongst the well heeled, and not even that amongst the Trumpo-fascist cheerleaders who want to make America great white again.

Oh, I knew who Trump was decades before he decided to play politics. I still struggle with the reality of who his supporters are. Sigh.

 

[TomC]

And who were these slaves that had allegedly been captured by other black people being sold to? Who was creating the demand for slaves to begin with?

There's no "allegedly" involved here. That the bulk of Africans sold in American slave markets were sold by black Africans is well documented.

The demand for slaves far predates European culture. They made the slave trade a global market, but they didn't create the market.
Tom

 

[atrib]

And who were these slaves that had allegedly been captured by other black people being sold to? Who was creating the demand for slaves to begin with?

There's no "allegedly" involved here. That the bulk of Africans sold in American slave markets were sold by black Africans is well documented.

The demand for slaves far predates European culture. They made the slave trade a global market, but they didn't create the market.
Tom

You did not answer my question. Who were buying these kidnapped black people from Africa, and who were they ultimately being sold to?

 

[atrib]

Explain that to me like I'm stupid.

Sure.

Most black Americans are the descendants of the Africans who weren't smart, motivated, or quick enough to escape being enslaved by other Africans.

Then the black slavers sold them to EuroColonialists who shipped them to the Americas.

That's the version for the stupid. Nothing about changing the genetics, it's just about the selection process.
Tom

Before Trump broke Poe, I'd think this was being a joke. Today, I'm uncertain.

I grew up thinking that it was only my town, only my family who held such hateful, ignorant racist views.

I now understand how Trump got elected.

Trump got 75 million votes in 2020, when the whole world knew what he was. Racism is alive and well in America, it just gets coated with a thin veneer of civility and politically correct messaging amongst the well heeled, and not even that amongst the Trumpo-fascist cheerleaders who want to make America great white again.

Oh, I knew who Trump was decades before he decided to play politics. I still struggle with the reality of who his supporters are. Sigh.

His supporters are Americans. Roughly half the people who vote in this country feel this way, and I have met a lot of them. Some are smart enough not to say it out aloud, but that is what they believe, and they vote for Trump because Trump represents their worldview.