Do we ALL have a "right to die"?

[Coleman Smith]

The question I have is can one have the right to die but others not be required to help? If a doctor is not allowed to assist you in suicide does that necessarily mean you have no right to suicide? Or is that the definition of “right” in this context?

It is difficult to arrest some one who has illegally committed suicide.

 

[bilby]

The question I have is can one have the right to die but others not be required to help? If a doctor is not allowed to assist you in suicide does that necessarily mean you have no right to suicide? Or is that the definition of “right” in this context?

It is difficult to arrest some one who has illegally committed suicide.

Actually, it's very easy - they're unlikely to run away or put up a fight.

The difficulty is in getting them to care that you've arrested them

 

[Rhea]

I forgot to mention that I'd like you to cite an example I can check out of a person who is forced to live who wishes to die. Has there been anything in the news, for example?

Anyway, I can't judge you as a liar because I don't know you. And because I don't know you, I'd be foolish to believe everything you post. I do know that these horror stories are almost always told by somebody who supposedly knows or did the the person who I am told wanted to die. The dying, of course, are often seen as a burden, and human nature being what it is, we seek to free ourselves of burdens. And if we don't want to look selfish and cruel, then we very often stretch the truth a bit to save face and make up stories that it was the dying, and not we, who wanted them to die.

You sure know how to mock another person’s pain.
You don’t deserve her story, or mine.
I have nothing more to say to you.

 

[abaddon]

The other poster: "The sky is blue".
Unknown Soldier: "I don't know you so I don't believe you, can you give a link to someone else saying it?"

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I forgot to mention that I'd like you to cite an example I can check out of a person who is forced to live who wishes to die. Has there been anything in the news, for example?

Some of us have known them. No way to document that, though.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

The other poster: "The sky is blue".
Unknown Soldier: "I don't know you so I don't believe you, can you give a link to someone else saying it?"

The sky isn't always blue, and people don't always tell the truth.

But one thing's for sure--death fundamentalists always use invalid logic.

 

[pood]

“Death fundamentalists” — pathetic.

Invalid logic? From someone who mutilated Lostone’s words to say they gave support to Ted Bundy?

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I forgot to mention that I'd like you to cite an example I can check out of a person who is forced to live who wishes to die. Has there been anything in the news, for example?

Some of us have known them. No way to document that, though.

I think it's best to listen to "them." That's assuming that "they" exist, of course.

 

[abaddon]

The other poster: "The sky is blue".
Unknown Soldier: "I don't know you so I don't believe you, can you give a link to someone else saying it?"

The sky isn't always blue...

"The other poster" didn't say the sky's always blue so your incomprehension shows again.

and people don't always tell the truth.

That's true, we don't know that you always tell the truth.

Nobody's asking you to believe them just cuz they "say so". The expectation is you'll think, and do it with honesty and a moderate bit of intelligence. It's not hard to figure how someone comes to the point where they realize they'd rather die sooner instead of later, and painlessly instead of painfully, so inevitably it must happen without others pushing them to do it. To treat that as controversial is dishonest and stupid.

Also you're moving the goalpost, likely to make other people jump through hoops so you can then say "not convinced" again.

Here's something in the news "for an example" as you requested:

Chantal Sebire was a retired teacher and mother of three living in Plombieres-les-Dijon, France. In 2000, she was diagnosed with esthesioneuroblastoma, a rare form of cancer that hits the nasal cavity. The cancer spreads through the face, disfiguring victims. It also blinds them and leaves them without a sense of smell or taste. Finally, the cancer gets into the brain and kills the individual.

Sebire knew the cancer would kill her over the course of years in a very painful and grotesque way that didn’t allow her to even venture out in public. Her disfigurement was quite profound; people stared, and children ran away in fear.

In 2008, she asked the French court for assistance with suicide. She was denied. In 2005, France had passed a law saying that it could withhold treatment to a terminally ill patient, but a doctor couldn’t actively participate in the death. On March 17, she lost the right for assistance in her death.

Two days later, her body was found in her home. She had died two days earlier from an overdose of pentobarbital, which is not stocked by French pharmacies. The drug is used in Switzerland, Belgium, and the US state of Oregon for the purposes of euthanasia.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

“Death fundamentalists” — pathetic.

Invalid logic? From someone who mutilated Lostone’s words to say they gave support to Ted Bundy?

Here's what was actually said:

Most people here have expressed support for the right of individuals top make their own choices, for themselves.

Let's take it step by step.

Most people here have expressed support for the right of individuals...

Ted Bundy, as an individual, had this right.

...top (sic) make their own choices...

Bundy's right was then to make his own choices. Those choices included murder.

for themselves.

And of course, Bundy's choice to murder was for himself.

So I've just proved that the claims that I misquoted anybody are flat-out false. It is I who has been misquoted, and that proof is in post #358. Of course, I know better than to believe that any death lover will admit that he lied, but it sure feels good to be factually and morally right.

 

[lostone]

No one has said anyone has any right to take someone else's life. So you have proved nothing.

 

[abaddon]

Bundy's choice to murder was for himself

Bundy murdered himself?

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Bundy's choice to murder was for himself

Bundy murdered himself?

Kuh-Lick!

 

[pood]

“Death fundamentalists” — pathetic.

Invalid logic? From someone who mutilated Lostone’s words to say they gave support to Ted Bundy?

Here's what was actually said:

Most people here have expressed support for the right of individuals top make their own choices, for themselves.

Let's take it step by step.

Most people here have expressed support for the right of individuals...

Ted Bundy, as an individual, had this right.

...top (sic) make their own choices...

Bundy's right was then to make his own choices. Those choices included murder.

for themselves.

And of course, Bundy's choice to murder was for himself.

So I've just proved that the claims that I misquoted anybody are flat-out false. It is I who has been misquoted, and that proof is in post #358. Of course, I know better than to believe that any death lover will admit that he lied, but it sure feels good to be factually and morally right.

Of course Lostone meant, by “for themselves,” to make choices about their own lives, and their own bodies, and not make choices for or about anyone else. You know this perfectly well, yet you persist in your dishonesty, and now add to your depravity the tactic of characterizing your interlocutors as “death lovers.” Your behavior is reprehensible, and there is no point in further communication with you.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

“Death fundamentalists” — pathetic.

Invalid logic? From someone who mutilated Lostone’s words to say they gave support to Ted Bundy?

Here's what was actually said:

Most people here have expressed support for the right of individuals top make their own choices, for themselves.

Let's take it step by step.

Most people here have expressed support for the right of individuals...

Ted Bundy, as an individual, had this right.

...top (sic) make their own choices...

Bundy's right was then to make his own choices. Those choices included murder.

for themselves.

And of course, Bundy's choice to murder was for himself.

So I've just proved that the claims that I misquoted anybody are flat-out false. It is I who has been misquoted, and that proof is in post #358. Of course, I know better than to believe that any death lover will admit that he lied, but it sure feels good to be factually and morally right.

Of course Lostone meant...

Actually, I'm analyzing the statement in question in regard to what English means. It appears that that statement is a clumsy attempt to rationalize a very foolish and dangerous idea. I notice that you make a lot of assertions but say almost nothing about my analysis.

...by “for themselves,” to make choices about their own lives, and their own bodies...

That won't get you out of trouble. Bundy made a choice about his own life to become a serial killer choosing to use his own body to do so.

...and not make choices for or about anyone else.

There's nothing in the statement that says what you're saying here.

You know this perfectly well...

How do you know what I know? Your mindreading is amazing!

...yet you persist in your dishonesty,

I'm actually a lover of truth and morality. That's why I defend the lives of the defenseless against those who falsely claim that they have the solution to their troubles: death.

...and now add to your depravity...

I see this again and again: Those who glorify assisted death for the dying cannot tolerate dissent. Anybody who dares to disagree with their pet philosophy endures a withering personal attack.

...the tactic of characterizing your interlocutors as “death lovers.”

Uh--death is what follows your philosophy as we all know fully well.

Your behavior is reprehensible...

I'm very proud of what I've argued. If more people thought like I do, then the world would be a much better place.

...and there is no point in further communication with you.

I suppose not. Truth, reason, and goodness are evidently not popular in this forum.

 

[lostone]

US, Trust, reason, and goodness are evidently not popular with you.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

US, Trust, reason, and goodness are evidently not popular with you.

Trust is not popular with me. As I've repeatedly mentioned, I do not trust those who claim to offer compassion while attacking without mercy anybody who fails to believe they are compassionate.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Need some nails?

 

[pood]

Want some cheese with your whine?

 

[WAB]

I look forward to death. Maybe not the dying part, which might suck, but the being dead part. I've already been dead, and consequently I know it's a dawdle. It's the easiest thing, being dead. It's so easy everyone can do it.

I didn't tap my foot and keep checking my watch as those billions of years crept by before I was conceived. The building of the pyramids might have been interesting as hell for those who were alive at the time, but I didn't notice. Same for WWI. Bloody big mess, but it didn't bother me in the slightest while it was happening.

I look forward to not existing. Since existing mostly sucks. And I don't have any sweet "going back to nature" feelings. Fuck nature. Nature is stupid and hostile. And there's only one relief from it, one escape.