Donald Trump's Very Yuge Tax Problem

[dismal]

just like how only guilty people exercise their 5th amendment rights, right?

Trump is a fucking asshole. We already know several assholish things he has done in business (ignoring stiffing subcontractors). He doesn't get the benefit of the doubt here. He has earned nothing to allow anyone to give him the benefit of the doubt.

It is starting to sound like he may have broken some tax laws over the years and that is why he hasn't made his income tax forms public... that and he doesn't pay a dime in Income Tax thanks to either writing off losses or making with depreciation.

I'm not sure we should stand here and let you impugn the capabilities of the noble hardworking professionals at the IRS this way.

 

[ZiprHead]

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/KLHFdduVDVg?t=50s[/YOUTUBE]

 

[untermensche]

It doesn't take a genius to understand the US tax code is a fraud.

Written by the rich for the rich, by their lapdogs in Congress.

Oligarchy.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Trump says he knows the tax code better than almost anyone else. I wish someone would ask him if he does his taxes himself or does he hire others to do that for him. I haven't been able to find a good image of his tax forms to determine who actually prepared those form. I believe the preparer has to place their name on the form too. Or am I mistaken?

Hires others where he may oversee this via advisors. He could have filled in the form itself based on the accounts prepared by his accountants.

One man companies or small operations are most likely to keep certain forms to fill in during transactions. However their accountants may fill out some or all of the forms required and prepare the returns.

When I worked in the UK as a self-employed on a 'limited company basis.' I did save money with additional expenses such as clothing (in part for damage in factories), transportation based on receipts in some cases meals during long distance travel.

The VAT man came a couple of times to check my VAT returns but the rather large dog in my house sort of deterred them. (Someone else was at home at the time).

One loophole which escaped the UK IRS was the set up of a Delaware based company incorporated in the UK. This was called and Audit-free company where audited accounts were not necessary to submit to the UK IRS or the VAT. In effect the individual could simply hand in the returns based on self assessment and surprisingly it was legal for a number of years.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Simplistically inaccurate.

Huffington Post had an interesting article on this topic:

The large loss apparently relates to Trump’s sale, in 1995, of New York’s legendary Plaza Hotel to Saudi and Asian investors. Trump acquired the hotel in 1988 for $400 million. He sold it in 1995 for $325 million.

Sounds like a $75 million loss, right? Except:

As it happens, Trump took out loans against The Plaza to purchase the Eastern Air Lines Shuttle (renamed Trump Shuttle) and to finance the construction of the Taj Mahal casino in Atlantic City.

Indeed, the 1995 purchasers of The Plaza seem to have assumed as much as $440 million in debt along with their purchase at $325 million, making the total purchase price closer to a $765 million value.

In other articles, there are discussions about him claiming losses on bad debt even though the lenders discounted/forgave some/all of the debt, in which case he should have declared the forgiven amount as income - he didn't.

There is also depreciation - a great way to generate paper losses.

And there is this:

There is also the question of Mr. Trump’s debt. Mr. Trump personally guaranteed $832 million of debt related to his casinos and other assets. Under tax code provisions available to real estate developers, he could take the full amount as a deduction even if he didn’t invest a dime of his own money.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/03/b...e-tax-code-into-a-giant-tax-shelter.html?_r=0

This is a really good and rather complicated article on the same topic: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...s-is-how-trump-lost-916m-and-avoided-tax.html

In short, as the HuffPo article concludes:

So it appears that Donald Trump lost nearly a billion dollars by buying, mortgaging and selling a hotel he didn’t invest in and didn’t really own.

It would take years to investigate but I am sure there are bits and pieces squirrled away here and there.

 

[barbos]

just like how only guilty people exercise their 5th amendment rights, right?

Trump is a fucking asshole. We already know several assholish things he has done in business (ignoring stiffing subcontractors). He doesn't get the benefit of the doubt here. He has earned nothing to allow anyone to give him the benefit of the doubt.

It is starting to sound like he may have broken some tax laws over the years and that is why he hasn't made his income tax forms public... that and he doesn't pay a dime in Income Tax thanks to either writing off losses or making with depreciation.

Yeah, but who is a bigger asshole presidential nominee Donald Trump or Martin Shkreli?
That is a question.

 

[Malintent]

One can be an asshole without being a thief... maybe he is both, but that he may have invested such that US tax code allowed him to avoid paying federal tax on billions of dollars is a condemnation of our tax code, not of "law abiding tax filers utilizing a team of accounts to ensure maximum legal benefit".

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

One can be an asshole without being a thief... maybe he is both, but that he may have invested such that US tax code allowed him to avoid paying federal tax on billions of dollars is a condemnation of our tax code, not of "law abiding tax filers utilizing a team of accounts to ensure maximum legal benefit".

His entire electoral persona is one of the Hero of the Blue Collar worker.

You can't live like a billionaire and pay less in federal income tax, sell out American steel companies for foreign steel, off shore almost all of your product production, and claim that you are the hero to the Blue Collar worker.

The idea that I'm paying more in Federal Income taxes than that asshole is infuriating. He likely pays a lot less in Federal Income taxes than the accountant that does them for him.

 

[Malintent]

One can be an asshole without being a thief... maybe he is both, but that he may have invested such that US tax code allowed him to avoid paying federal tax on billions of dollars is a condemnation of our tax code, not of "law abiding tax filers utilizing a team of accounts to ensure maximum legal benefit".

His entire electoral persona is one of the Hero of the Blue Collar worker.

You can't live like a billionaire and pay less in federal income tax, sell out American steel companies for foreign steel, off shore almost all of your product production, and claim that you are the hero to the Blue Collar worker.

The idea that I'm paying more in Federal Income taxes than that asshole is infuriating. He likely pays a lot less in Federal Income taxes than the accountant that does them for him.

With this, I completely agree. He is no public servant by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Trump 2016: Only the fox knows how to guard the henhouse.

 

[dismal]

It would take years to investigate but I am sure there are bits and pieces squirrled away here and there.

If only there had been years that had taken place since 1995.

And paid professional tax auditors.

Then for sure this Trump fellow would have been imprisoned for his misdeeds.

 

[blastula]

It would take years to investigate but I am sure there are bits and pieces squirrled away here and there.

If only there had been years that had taken place since 1995.

And paid professional tax auditors.

Then for sure this Trump fellow would have been imprisoned for his misdeeds.

How would we know the results of his audits? He's not releasing that neither.

 

[Elixir]

Trump 2016: Only the fox knows how to guard the henhouse.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

If only there had been years that had taken place since 1995.

And paid professional tax auditors.

Then for sure this Trump fellow would have been imprisoned for his misdeeds.

How would we know the results of his audits? He's not releasing that neither.

How do we know that he's being audited? Other than having Trump assert that he's being audited, of course.

 

[RavenSky]

If only there had been years that had taken place since 1995.

And paid professional tax auditors.

Then for sure this Trump fellow would have been imprisoned for his misdeeds.

How would we know the results of his audits? He's not releasing that neither.

And I read somewhere (would have to go find the article again) that his lawyers are also contesting years worth of audits

 

[whichphilosophy]

How would we know the results of his audits? He's not releasing that neither.

And I read somewhere (would have to go find the article again) that his lawyers are also contesting years worth of audits

Per the points I made earelier (somewhere in one of the threads.

http://lawnewz.com/politics/legal-e...lly-stupid-to-release-his-taxes-during-audit/

Legal Experts Side With Trump; It Would Be Crazy to Release His Taxes During Audit



Donald Trump is not backing down. He is not releasing his taxes until after he says a federal audit is complete. He was pushed on the topic again Friday morning on Good Morning America.

“Almost every lawyer will tell you the same thing, when you are under audit, you finish the audit before you release,” he said.

As George Stephanopoulos pointed out in a rather heated interview, there is technically nothing legally barring Trump from releasing his taxes. The IRS even said in a statement “nothing prevents individuals from sharing their own tax information.” While Trump has sometimes been quick to say legal experts side with him, on this one, we have to say it is true. Tax attorneys who spoke with LawNewz.com said they would advise their clients not to release taxes in the midst of an audit.

In February, when this issue was first brought up by Trump’s Republican opponents, we reached out to high profile tax attorneys and accountants who typically deal with high-net worth individuals. We posed two questions to them: 1) What would you advise your clients? 2) Do Trump’s statements (above) seem like a plausible explanation to you?

Here are their responses:

Robert Barnes, a Los Angeles based attorney:

“I see some of my colleagues would tell their clients to release their tax returns to the public during an audit. Ask them to name a single client they actually gave that advice to. I think that would be legal malpractice, and would recommend their clients sue them if they gave that advice. I advise my clients (hundreds over the years who actually experience an IRS inquiry) to NEVER release their tax returns while an audit is going on. I am certain Mr. Trump’s lawyers, very capable and well-respected in this field, have advised him not to disclose his tax returns during the audit. There are many reasons for this.

First of all, and most importantly, the IRS is not allowed to show your client’s tax returns to anyone else. Such returns are protected by the privacy laws of section 6103 of Title 26 of the Code. The only way they could do so if your client had a lawyer dumb enough to let you disclose those records publicly. The IRS could then misuse this otherwise private information to make the audit process more difficult at many levels, and could cause problems for other entirely innocent businesses you do business with.

As I understand his returns for 2009 onwards are under audit. He can of course and should release any earlier returns.

 

[Elixir]

As I understand his returns for 2009 onwards are under audit. He can of course and should release any earlier returns.

Having trouble counting higher than one, WP?
Don't look now...

 

[RavenSky]

As I understand his returns for 2009 onwards are under audit. He can of course and should release any earlier returns.

No one disputes that he claims his attorney's told him not to. (He also falsely claimed at one point that the IRS forbids it) I wouldn't even dispute that his attorney's probably did tell him not to. They are paid to be cautious and protective. They are not running to be President. He is. He has the ability and the authority to release his tax returns, and he should do so.

But he won't.

We all knew that from the beginning.

So all of your posts of the subject add nothing. Thanks anyway.

 

[Horatio Parker]

This lawyer had hundreds of clients that were considering releasing their returns?

Who releases tax returns besides politicians?

 

[SimpleDon]

You clearly have no idea what the fuck you are talking about. He paid income tax on income earned in year X, then he losses money in year X+1. The taxes paid in the previous year are based on his income in the previous year. Subsequent losses are irrelevant. It's too bad for him that he had losses. But he is not recovering taxes paid on income not earned.

You aren't making any sense. Of course subsequent losses are relevant. The government rightly recognizes that an annual cut-off for reporting income and paying tax on that basis is arbitrary. Thus, the ability to use losses to offset past and future income is equitable if you want to tax someone based on actual business income earned over the business' history.

However, the deck is stacked in favor of the government as they don't let you immediately get a refund on past taxes paid on a loss, but make you wait until you have future income. IOW, you must pay all tax immediately in the year income is earned, but you must wait an arbitrary period of time to recover taxes on a loss.

Anyone who incurs losses can utilize this method. Your contention that it is only available to the "elite" is BS.

Surprise, as hard as it is to believe you all are wrong.

A loophole in the law establishing the pass through 'S' corporations that allowed property developers to write off all of the losses on a project even the developer didn't personally incur the loss. The developer was allowed to claim the losses of the banks and other lenders, the losses of the various subsuppliers and subcontractors and even the losses of any governments, all as if they were the losses of the developer.

The loophole was an error in the drafting of the law. It was clear from the previous drafts of the bill that Congress didn't intend for developers to have this possibility. It went all the way to The US Supreme Court and they ordered the IRS to allow the deduction, in spite of their dedication to the principle of original intent. Congress then closed the loophole but left the question of the carry over still being claimed open. I don't have a link, it was a report on CNN.

Trump's developments were highly leveraged using extremely high interest junk bonds and very little if any of Trump's money in the project. He literally made money off of the bankruptcy and the losses of others.