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During the 10 hours I was reporting on this story, I was groped 22 times.

Or you can segregate the crowd into single men, single women, and couples/families/groups.

why?

Are you suggesting that all single men are incapable of keeping their hands to themselves?

No, but it largely solves the problem given that most sexual harrassment of this nature is probably heterosexual in nature.

I mean do you want solutions or are we still insisting that psychopathy can be fixed with morality training?

I think that there is a "socially acceptable" component to what should be a universally condemned behavior. I think that even if we can't cure sexual predators, we can make society a heck of a lot more difficult for them to freely conduct their assaults in.
 
No, but it largely solves the problem given that most sexual harrassment of this nature is probably heterosexual in nature.

I mean do you want solutions or are we still insisting that psychopathy can be fixed with morality training?

I think that there is a "socially acceptable" component to what should be a universally condemned behavior. I think that even if we can't cure sexual predators, we can make society a heck of a lot more difficult for them to freely conduct their assaults in.

And I disagree. If it were socially acceptable to grope people without their knowledge or consent, then it wouldn't happen in places where they can only get away with it through the anonymity of the crowd or hidden spaces away from the public eye. The problem isn't that they think it's acceptable, its that they don't care. You can't cure a lack of empathy and respect for others in people.
 
And I disagree. If it were socially acceptable to grope people without their knowledge or consent, then it wouldn't happen in places where they can only get away with it through the anonymity of the crowd or hidden spaces away from the public eye. The problem isn't that they think it's acceptable, its that they don't care. You can't cure a lack of empathy and respect for others in people.

This type of behavior happens everywhere, not hidden at all. And it certain situations (frat parties for instance) it can actually be applauded/encouraged.
 
In the 50s-60s culture I grew up in girls said no and the successful boy overcomes the resistance.

James Bond in Goldfinger. In the end Bond forcefully seduces Pussey Galore who was a veiled lesbian character. The Bond movies and Connery were powerful male images for boys. In an interview with Walters Connery said a little sap or two was ok to keep a woman in her place. There was a report of young men cheering when he grove by in Spain. The interview should be online.

Same with Sinatra movies. Women were two dimensional objects you had around to please you.

Etc, etc, etc....
 
Interesting. Not, “men should adopt a code of conduct to keep an arms-length from strange women.” I wonder how they think that will work - women run from open spot to open spot as men advance ever closer, so she has to adopt a code of conduct to run again in this public space?


Bizarre.

Most men do behave, but there is a small contingent that doesn't. All of the "fix men" has reinforced the belief of the men that do behave that they should behave. There are still people out there who have no concern for the pain of others. Since the vast majority of men have agreed that abusing women is wrong, perhaps it is time that women agree that they too can take steps to deal with the small minority who don't give a damn about others.
 
Interesting. Not, “men should adopt a code of conduct to keep an arms-length from strange women.” I wonder how they think that will work - women run from open spot to open spot as men advance ever closer, so she has to adopt a code of conduct to run again in this public space?


Bizarre.

Most men do behave, but there is a small contingent that doesn't. All of the "fix men" has reinforced the belief of the men that do behave that they should behave. There are still people out there who have no concern for the pain of others. Since the vast majority of men have agreed that abusing women is wrong, perhaps it is time that women agree that they too can take steps to deal with the small minority who don't give a damn about others.

Everyone behaves. Whether a particular behavior or a particular behavior of a particular individual is viewed as acceptable varies tremendously as is well evidenced by reading many threads on just this forum, not to mention news reports. For example, a great many people seem to feel that if a woman has been drinking then she deserves whatever happens, that passing out does not preclude giving consent. Or it is easy to mistake her silence for consent or at least acquiescence. How should he know the difference?

What I believe is that there is a tremendous lack of empathy or respect for women and girls.
 
Interesting. Not, “men should adopt a code of conduct to keep an arms-length from strange women.” I wonder how they think that will work - women run from open spot to open spot as men advance ever closer, so she has to adopt a code of conduct to run again in this public space?


Bizarre.

Most men do behave, but there is a small contingent that doesn't. All of the "fix men" has reinforced the belief of the men that do behave that they should behave. There are still people out there who have no concern for the pain of others. Since the vast majority of men have agreed that abusing women is wrong, perhaps it is time that women agree that they too can take steps to deal with the small minority who don't give a damn about others.

What steps do you suggest?

I agree that most men treat others with respect and don't go around fingering people without consent. But most women have encountered the other kind, guys who grope and sidle away and if confronted, feign innocence. What should women do about that?
 
I guess Coachella is not the anti-Woodstock anymore.
 
Interesting. Not, “men should adopt a code of conduct to keep an arms-length from strange women.” I wonder how they think that will work - women run from open spot to open spot as men advance ever closer, so she has to adopt a code of conduct to run again in this public space?


Bizarre.

Most men do behave, but there is a small contingent that doesn't. All of the "fix men" has reinforced the belief of the men that do behave that they should behave. There are still people out there who have no concern for the pain of others. Since the vast majority of men have agreed that abusing women is wrong, perhaps it is time that women agree that they too can take steps to deal with the small minority who don't give a damn about others.

We have been. I have been. I've stopped a number of attempted rapes, including what was measuring up to be a gang rape of a friend who rarely drank but had overindulged and was only a hair away from passing out cold. I've stopped assaults on me, myself. More than once. Different guys mostly, but one was a repeat offender when I was really young and I thought at first I misunderstood and that the real problem was the bad language he used to describe what he was going to do to me--because no one ever actually said those words out loud. I was really young when that happened. There were the times when I pretended to believe that it was an accident--that he (whichever he it was at the time) didn't mean to grab (whatever) and just politely made my escape. Politely. Do guys ever do that? Politely elude someone who grabbed their genitals, whispered filthy suggestions in their ear, tried to trap them in a closet in a back room where no one would hear? I don't think they do. Not very often. But by the time I was a freshman in college, I was pretty well practiced in stopping assaults in the beginning stages, my assaults or someone else's.

Do you know how exhausting it is to constantly have to be worried about someone grabbing you or much, much worse? Randomly, or maybe not. To wonder if you said or wore the wrong thing, walked the wrong place or did or somewhat accidentally signaled to some guy that you were a vulnerable target?

Guys don't worry about that. They don't have to worry that the dad whose kids you just babysat so he and his wife could go out for a dinner and a movie might try to give you more than the $5 owed for babysitting. They don't worry about when a prof suggests you stop by during his office hours to discuss that essay question you thought you had nailed but he gave you a low score for. At least, they don't have to worry about that sort of thing very often. Or being pulled into the lap of a co-worker who tries to steal a kiss--a propos of....nothing at all. Just random. I suppose randomly he was maybe getting kind of a boner for whatever reason--it was 3:00 on a Friday afternoon so: boner?? IDK. and I was just walking by, so why not? I mean, if you don't try, you don't know, right? He was old enough to be my grandfather...

Girls? Girls worry about that all the time. ALL the time.

I don't think they should have to worry about that sort of thing.

I think boys and guys should know better.

I think their fathers should teach them better. By example, not just by lecture.

Girls and women, we've done the heavy lifting on this for centuries. For millennia.

It's time for men and boys and guys in general to just drop this: Hey, I'm not like that so it's not my problem and why do I need to do anything else? stance.

Time's up.
 
According to my daughter, you take away their penises, and they stop.
Like mother, like daughter, eh? And you wonder why I think that many feminists are fascists.

As to the OP, I wonder how many of the 22 are actual genuine groping, and how many are people inadvertently bumping into her due to crowds and she misinterprets it as "groping" due to #metoo-fueled hysteria.

Don't worry, one has to have something for one to be able to take it away in the first place.
 
The solution, if there is one, has to be peer pressure. Mates need to start shunning and shaming blokes who think sexual assault is acceptable.

I think this is slowly starting to happen. But there are, sadly, still plenty of subcultures wherein men applaud their friends for such behaviour (or turn a blind eye to it).
 
The solution, if there is one, has to be peer pressure. Mates need to start shunning and shaming blokes who think sexual assault is acceptable.

I think this is slowly starting to happen. But there are, sadly, still plenty of subcultures wherein men applaud their friends for such behaviour (or turn a blind eye to it).

The average male, upon learning of a sex offender, gets a bit of a murderous rage.

What I'm about to say isn't politically correct, so proceed with caution.

The average male has an inner caveman that thinks "protect women, protect children." That inner caveman is kept under wraps whenever a man is forced to attend sensitivity training, and we nod and agree "men and women are completely equal" so that we can pass the class. Then the moment we hear about a threat to the women or children, our inner caveman wakes up and says "Bad man hurt women! Me bash bad man!"

You see, when a man does hurt a woman, he's doing the opposite of what a man's job is. He's not only not doing his duty as a man, he's violating his duty as a man. That makes real men very angry at that man.

Do you wonder why sex offenders are the most hated person in the prison? Because even other criminals have standards. Even criminals have an inner caveman that hates those who abuse those men are supposed to protect.

That's just the way men think. It's not very politically correct to say that is what we see when we look at women and children, "Me protect small people". That is still the way men think when they're not nodding and smiling in the sensitivity training class ... and even when they are nodding and smiling in that class. There are SUBcultures that think differently, but they are not indicative of the larger culture.
 
The solution, if there is one, has to be peer pressure. Mates need to start shunning and shaming blokes who think sexual assault is acceptable.

I think this is slowly starting to happen. But there are, sadly, still plenty of subcultures wherein men applaud their friends for such behaviour (or turn a blind eye to it).

The average male, upon learning of a sex offender, gets a bit of a murderous rage.

What I'm about to say isn't politically correct, so proceed with caution.

The average male has an inner caveman that thinks "protect women, protect children." That inner caveman is kept under wraps whenever a man is forced to attend sensitivity training, and we nod and agree "men and women are completely equal" so that we can pass the class. Then the moment we hear about a threat to the women or children, our inner caveman wakes up and says "Bad man hurt women! Me bash bad man!"

You see, when a man does hurt a woman, he's doing the opposite of what a man's job is. He's not only not doing his duty as a man, he's violating his duty as a man. That makes real men very angry at that man.

Do you wonder why sex offenders are the most hated person in the prison? Because even other criminals have standards. Even criminals have an inner caveman that hates those who abuse those men are supposed to protect.

Then why do these criminals with standards rape the sex offenders?

That's just the way men think. It's not very politically correct to say that is what we see when we look at women and children, "Me protect small people". That is still the way men think when they're not nodding and smiling in the sensitivity training class ... and even when they are nodding and smiling in that class. There are SUBcultures that think differently, but they are not indicative of the larger culture.

Then why did the majority of these so-called cavemen vote for a pussy grabber who admitted it?
 
The solution, if there is one, has to be peer pressure. Mates need to start shunning and shaming blokes who think sexual assault is acceptable.

I think this is slowly starting to happen. But there are, sadly, still plenty of subcultures wherein men applaud their friends for such behaviour (or turn a blind eye to it).

The average male, upon learning of a sex offender, gets a bit of a murderous rage.

What I'm about to say isn't politically correct, so proceed with caution.

The average male has an inner caveman that thinks "protect women, protect children." That inner caveman is kept under wraps whenever a man is forced to attend sensitivity training, and we nod and agree "men and women are completely equal" so that we can pass the class. Then the moment we hear about a threat to the women or children, our inner caveman wakes up and says "Bad man hurt women! Me bash bad man!"

You see, when a man does hurt a woman, he's doing the opposite of what a man's job is. He's not only not doing his duty as a man, he's violating his duty as a man. That makes real men very angry at that man.

Do you wonder why sex offenders are the most hated person in the prison? Because even other criminals have standards. Even criminals have an inner caveman that hates those who abuse those men are supposed to protect.

That's just the way men think. It's not very politically correct to say that is what we see when we look at women and children, "Me protect small people". That is still the way men think when they're not nodding and smiling in the sensitivity training class ... and even when they are nodding and smiling in that class. There are SUBcultures that think differently, but they are not indicative of the larger culture.

Sure. But 'mild' sexual assaults are not considered to be sex offences by these people. The murderous rage is reserved for aggravated rapists and paedophiles. It is not directed against 'harmless fun' like pinching a pretty girl's bottom. That's what has to change - sexual assault needs to be recognized for what it is, and the categorizing it as 'harmless fun' or 'normal' or 'just a bit of a joke' needs to stop.
 
Why do you still say "I could do it" is synonymous with "I did it"?

It's not clear to whom this question is addressed, nor who is saying that, nor in what context. The only instance of the phrase "I could do it" I can find in this thread is in your above-quoted post (and in this one responding to it).
 
Response to Don2 when he wrote "Then why did the majority of these so-called cavemen vote for a pussy grabber who admitted it?". But bilby quickly got a post in between us.

Oh i see. So all those cavemen you were talking about aren't conservative apologists, they just really pay attention to nuance.
 
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