During the 10 hours I was reporting on this story, I was groped 22 times.

[steve_bank]

Peer pressure will not do it.

The effect of music, video games, TV, and movies is too strong a force changing culture.

I've been watching a lot of old movies 30s-40s. Same old cultural intdoctrination.

We can't keep drugs and alchohol and tobacco out of the hands of kids. Sex norms are deeply embedded.

A ways back there was a video game kids play where you got points for rape. The entertainment reponse, if you don't like it don't watch it. Entertainment is shaping young minds more than ever.

 

[bilby]

Response to Don2 when he wrote "Then why did the majority of these so-called cavemen vote for a pussy grabber who admitted it?". But bilby quickly got a post in between us.

Oh i see. So all those cavemen you were talking about aren't conservative apologists, they just really pay attention to nuance.

Which rather highlights my point - it's all a harmless joke, as long as you say but don't actually do. Except that it's neither harmless, nor a joke. Trump would not have gotten the same support from the 'so-called cavemen' had his 'joke' been that he 'could rape a toddler', rather than 'grab a pussy'.

 

[RavenSky]

The solution, if there is one, has to be peer pressure. Mates need to start shunning and shaming blokes who think sexual assault is acceptable.

I think this is slowly starting to happen. But there are, sadly, still plenty of subcultures wherein men applaud their friends for such behaviour (or turn a blind eye to it).

I agree on all points

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Response to Don2 when he wrote "Then why did the majority of these so-called cavemen vote for a pussy grabber who admitted it?". But bilby quickly got a post in between us.

Oh i see. So all those cavemen you were talking about aren't conservative apologists, they just really pay attention to nuance.

If you have to call it "nuance', it makes me wonder if your inner caveman is asleep.

Besides, the part the inner caveman cares about isn't pussy grabbing, capability or reality, but the words in that same sentence "they let you do it." Only you seem to think that by saying he could therefore he said he did. The caveman hears "they let you do it" and says "girl said okay" and ignores it. Only when the caveman hears "girl said no" does he get all angry.

You, on the other hand, say "He said he could do something vulgar, therefore he did, and why isn't the caveman mad at that? That stupid caveman must be a Republican or something." No, the caveman heard the words "they let you do it".

 

[bilby]

Response to Don2 when he wrote "Then why did the majority of these so-called cavemen vote for a pussy grabber who admitted it?". But bilby quickly got a post in between us.

Oh i see. So all those cavemen you were talking about aren't conservative apologists, they just really pay attention to nuance.

If you have to call it "nuance', it makes me wonder if your inner caveman is asleep.

Besides, the part the inner caveman cares about isn't pussy grabbing, capability or reality, but the words in that same sentence "they let you do it." Only you seem to think that by saying he could therefore he said he did. The caveman hears "they let you do it" and says "girl said okay" and ignores it. Only when the caveman hears "girl said no" does he get all angry.

You, on the other hand, say "He said he could do something vulgar, therefore he did, and why isn't the caveman mad at that? That stupid caveman must be a Republican or something." No, the caveman heard the words "they let you do it".

"Let you do it" isn't a high enough bar. They need to WANT you to do it. Otherwise you are committing assault.

That someone doesn't complain doesn't imply that they are comfortable or happy. Particularly when a complaint is likely to be met with incredulity, ridicule, and/or denial.

 

[laughing dog]

Response to Don2 when he wrote "Then why did the majority of these so-called cavemen vote for a pussy grabber who admitted it?". But bilby quickly got a post in between us.

Oh i see. So all those cavemen you were talking about aren't conservative apologists, they just really pay attention to nuance.

If you have to call it "nuance', it makes me wonder if your inner caveman is asleep.

Besides, the part the inner caveman cares about isn't pussy grabbing, capability or reality, but the words in that same sentence "they let you do it." Only you seem to think that by saying he could therefore he said he did. The caveman hears "they let you do it" and says "girl said okay" and ignores it. Only when the caveman hears "girl said no" does he get all angry.

You, on the other hand, say "He said he could do something vulgar, therefore he did, and why isn't the caveman mad at that? That stupid caveman must be a Republican or something." No, the caveman heard the words "they let you do it".

That babbling defense of Republicans or something is eye opening.

 

[Rhea]

Besides, the part the inner caveman cares about isn't pussy grabbing, capability or reality, but the words in that same sentence "they let you do it." Only you seem to think that by saying he could therefore he said he did. The caveman hears "they let you do it" and says "girl said okay" and ignores it. Only when the caveman hears "girl said no" does he get all angry.

You, on the other hand, say "He said he could do something vulgar, therefore he did, and why isn't the caveman mad at that? That stupid caveman must be a Republican or something." No, the caveman heard the words "they let you do it".

So, wait, they hear THE MAN say “they let you” and they hear a million women saying “no we fucking don’t” and they think, “girl said okay.”

And you think this is normal and okay? Whassamatter, your inner cavemen didn’t notice the women suing Trump for doing that when they did NOT “let him”? Pretty useless inner caveman, ja?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Response to Don2 when he wrote "Then why did the majority of these so-called cavemen vote for a pussy grabber who admitted it?". But bilby quickly got a post in between us.

Oh i see. So all those cavemen you were talking about aren't conservative apologists, they just really pay attention to nuance.

If you have to call it "nuance', it makes me wonder if your inner caveman is asleep.

Besides, the part the inner caveman cares about isn't pussy grabbing, capability or reality, but the words in that same sentence "they let you do it." Only you seem to think that by saying he could therefore he said he did. The caveman hears "they let you do it" and says "girl said okay" and ignores it. Only when the caveman hears "girl said no" does he get all angry.

You, on the other hand, say "He said he could do something vulgar, therefore he did, and why isn't the caveman mad at that? That stupid caveman must be a Republican or something." No, the caveman heard the words "they let you do it".

Apparently, it's YOUR inner caveman that is asleep. Silence is not consent and it makes me mad to hear you claim that. Hulk smash!

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Besides, the part the inner caveman cares about isn't pussy grabbing, capability or reality, but the words in that same sentence "they let you do it." Only you seem to think that by saying he could therefore he said he did. The caveman hears "they let you do it" and says "girl said okay" and ignores it. Only when the caveman hears "girl said no" does he get all angry.

You, on the other hand, say "He said he could do something vulgar, therefore he did, and why isn't the caveman mad at that? That stupid caveman must be a Republican or something." No, the caveman heard the words "they let you do it".

So, wait, they hear THE MAN say “they let you” and they hear a million women saying “no we fucking don’t” and they think, “girl said okay.”

I hear millions of women say "no we fucking wouldn't" not "no we fucking don't". Key difference. Did Trump ever try to grab you personally? In fact, were you ever in the same room with him at any time in your life?

Consent is consent, even if it isn't enthusiastic.

 

[coloradoatheist]

I guess to determine the solution the women need to decide how bad it is. If it's bad enough then the women should band together and boycott Coachella until something is done. The options include more monitoring, or creating women only sections.

Societies have tried to prevent this behavior. Muslim try with Burkas. In the past it was handled with women being seen as property of their husband or fathers.

 

[laughing dog]

I guess to determine the solution the women need to decide how bad it is. If it's bad enough then the women should band together and boycott Coachella until something is done. The options include more monitoring, or creating women only sections.

Societies have tried to prevent this behavior. Muslim try with Burkas. In the past it was handled with women being seen as property of their husband or fathers.

In the past, when women were seen as property of their husbands or fathers it was just as bad, if not worse.

 

[Underseer]

"Of course sexual harassment happens here,” said Ana, 19. “It happens to us at all concerts. At Coachella it is so many people that men will get away with touching you, and they think we don't notice. It happened to me many times already, and I notice every time.”

https://www.teenvogue.com/story/sexual-harassment-was-rampant-at-coachella-2018

Female bonobos have the best solution for this type of behavior. When this kind of thing happens, the female bonobos nearby all gang up on the offending male. In cases where humans follow the bonobo example, the results are generally quite positive.

I can't wait to hear the woman-haters talk about how merely complaining about this somehow harms men.

 

[Toni]

Besides, the part the inner caveman cares about isn't pussy grabbing, capability or reality, but the words in that same sentence "they let you do it." Only you seem to think that by saying he could therefore he said he did. The caveman hears "they let you do it" and says "girl said okay" and ignores it. Only when the caveman hears "girl said no" does he get all angry.

You, on the other hand, say "He said he could do something vulgar, therefore he did, and why isn't the caveman mad at that? That stupid caveman must be a Republican or something." No, the caveman heard the words "they let you do it".

So, wait, they hear THE MAN say “they let you” and they hear a million women saying “no we fucking don’t” and they think, “girl said okay.”

I hear millions of women say "no we fucking wouldn't" not "no we fucking don't". Key difference. Did Trump ever try to grab you personally? In fact, were you ever in the same room with him at any time in your life?

Consent is consent, even if it isn't enthusiastic.

Is it consent when you just don't fight because you are trying to avoid a beating or worse in addition to the sexual assault?

I'm not talking about a case where one partner isn't really in the mood but the other person is so the less enthusiastic partner acquiesces for the sake of relationship harmony.

I'm talking about finding out on a date that the guy expects sex and you demure and he is very insistent and begins to allude to the isolated area or the fact that there's no one around and is getting somewhat forceful with his insistence.

I've known people who didn't believe women could be raped if they were conscious: giving in wasn't being raped, even with a gun to your head.

And we've seen posters and read about judges! who don't see passing out as an impediment to giving consent.

"no we fucking wouldn't" not "no we fucking don't"

BTW: No is the important part in either of those statements.

No means no. Full stop.

 

[Worldtraveller]

Interesting. Not, “men should adopt a code of conduct to keep an arms-length from strange women.” I wonder how they think that will work - women run from open spot to open spot as men advance ever closer, so she has to adopt a code of conduct to run again in this public space?


Bizarre.

Most men do behave, but there is a small contingent that doesn't. All of the "fix men" has reinforced the belief of the men that do behave that they should behave. There are still people out there who have no concern for the pain of others. Since the vast majority of men have agreed that abusing women is wrong, perhaps it is time that women agree that they too can take steps to deal with the small minority who don't give a damn about others.

Wow, the privilege and lack of empathy here is astounding.

Most cops behave, so why should black people worry when they get pulled over, or are talking on their cell phone in their back yard, or playing with a toy gun in a store, or....you name it.

Because there's no way to know, in advance, which ones are the 'good' (or at least decent) ones or not. How would you feel if women were absolutely free to taser you if you got within 10 feet of them, just in case? Most of them wouldn't, only a tiny percentage would actually do so, whether out of genuine concern, or just because they could. So you'd be totally ok with allowing that, right?

Think about it for a while, and you might, just might, get a tiny glimmer into what women and minorities have had to deal with their entire lives.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Consent is consent, even if it isn't enthusiastic.

Wow, your caveman instincts are just way too caveman and not advanced enough. We know that animals, even cavemen, react to stress in different ways: fight, fright, flight. What you are expecting is that when a woman is stressed, she won't go into fright mode and have that be either misinterpreted or taken advantage of. In the case of Twitler, it sounds a lot like taking advantage but while it could be misinterpretation, you're still excusing it and not letting your caveman anger lead you on a path of righteousness.

 

[Derec]

Or you can segregate the crowd into single men, single women, and couples/families/groups.

Well the Left is already sucking up to radical Islam. So why not adopt strict gender segregation as well?

- - - Updated - - -

Granted, she was only 3 when she said it,

Which just shows that she assimilated the radical feminist attitudes of her mother early in life.

 

[Derec]

You clearly can't tell the difference between a joking comment and a genuine proposal.

When there are women who in real life cut men's penises off and get away with it (like Lorena Bobbit) and even genuinely become heroines to the radical feminist movement, excuse me if I do not see genital mutilation as a particularly laughing matter.
Should we laugh abut cutting women's clitorises as well?

And you wonder why you have such a bad reputation around here.

Yeah, FSM forbid we be against sexist (and racist for that matter) double standards around here.

But anyway, since you are taking this comment so seriously, why don't you please give us your genuine proposal to reduce or eliminate men sexually assaulting women. Thanks

First, we need good data. Objective data. Not what some activist writing for Teen Vogue claims is happening.

And I wonder if you think all women are stupid and/or liars or if only your thoughts that make that implication manage to reach your keyboard.

I am not saying all women are stupid and/or liars. I am saying that women are not always right or truthful.
Big logical difference.

- - - Updated - - -

I wonder why you think girls can't tell the difference.

- Crowded condition with many bodies bumping into one another just due to random movement.
- Bias toward false positives due in part to #metoo hysteria.

 

[Derec]

They are discrete sensations.

Maybe for you. But if you are a feminist activist fueled by reinforcing "#metoo" and "rape culture" hysterias, any contact can seem like "groping".

Teen Vogue is no longer about fashion or makeup tips for teenage girls, as one would expect from the name. Ever since Ferguson riots I have seen many radical articles from Teen Vogue posted online. Always from a reliably radical leftist perspective on race or gender.

P.S.: There is also the possibility of ability to perceive sensations correctly being affected by drug use. I mean, it's Coachella, not World Youth Day.

 

[Toni]

I wonder why you think girls can't tell the difference.

- Crowded condition with many bodies bumping into one another just due to random movement.
- Bias toward false positives due in part to #metoo hysteria.

Oh, Derec, how I wish this were the case. I cannot tell you how often I have convinced myself or tried to convince myself that so and so didn't really mean it the way it sounded or didn't mean to brush/grope/whatever. And learned the hard way to shut that shit down HARD the first time because there will be many, many more times and they will escalate. I'm sure I've misinterpreted someone who genuinely did not mean anything improper. But I learned the hard way that failing to stop the small stuff leads to someone trying to back you up in a storeroom somewhere, or shoving his hands down your pants at a party (but he was sooooo drunk (not really) at that party---and thought you were, too) or other stuff.

I will say that I am glad that more girls and women are standing up for themselves and calling out this kind of constant shit that so many girls and women deal with ALL THE TIME. It is exhausting. I do credit #metoo with helping women find the courage to call it out and shut it down.

 

[scombrid]

The solution, if there is one, has to be peer pressure. Mates need to start shunning and shaming blokes who think sexual assault is acceptable.

I think this is slowly starting to happen. But there are, sadly, still plenty of subcultures wherein men applaud their friends for such behaviour (or turn a blind eye to it).

I think that peer pressure as a solution is ultimately subverted by "subcultures". The peer groups segregate out.

We can try to shame them all we want but they don't recognize us to be peers and we aren't likely to be in venues where they are engaging in their predatory behavior.