England headed for A Caliphate

[bilby]

As for experience, when has there ever been a country that collectivized ownership of the means of production and still allowed free speech?

Mid C20th UK? Many large industries were collectively owned - British Steel, British Coal, British Gas, British Rail, British Overseas Airline Corporation (later merged with British European Airwatlts to form British Airways), British Shipbuilders, Central Electricity Generating Board, National Express Coaches, to name but a few.

Is this the Ike Vallon theory of collectivism -- one drop of collective ownership makes the economy collectively owned in these parts? The mid-C20th UK owned about 20% of the economy.

Well how much is enough to count? I don't think even the USSR managed to entirely eliminate all private production.

All of these things are spectra. There are no working examples of an economy whose 'means of production' are eithef 100% or 0% privately owned.

There was also the BBC - which one might suspect would stifle free speech, but which not only had a strong policy of independence from government on editorial matters, but also had private sector competitors.

Those two characteristics might not be unrelated...

Well they arrived in that sequence for radio, and later television, so if they are related, the latter cannot have caused the former.

 

[Bomb#20]

As for experience, when has there ever been a country that collectivized ownership of the means of production and still allowed free speech?

Mid C20th UK? Many large industries were collectively owned - British Steel, British Coal, British Gas, British Rail, British Overseas Airline Corporation (later merged with British European Airwatlts to form British Airways), British Shipbuilders, Central Electricity Generating Board, National Express Coaches, to name but a few.

Is this the Ike Vallon theory of collectivism -- one drop of collective ownership makes the economy collectively owned in these parts? The mid-C20th UK owned about 20% of the economy.

Well how much is enough to count? I don't think even the USSR managed to entirely eliminate all private production.

All of these things are spectra. There are no working examples of an economy whose 'means of production' are eithef 100% or 0% privately owned.

Quite so. I looked up the numbers. The private economy ranged from about 3% in Maoist China, to 13% in the USSR, to 30% in communist Hungary; and it's about 60% in China now, with severe censorship in all those cases. This suggests the cutoff in how much the state can own before free speech goes away is between 20% and 40%. But of course all politics is local -- China will probably still be a police state when it's 80% private, like Nazi Germany was; conversely maybe Britain could keep free speech even if it went up to 50% state ownership. Then again, Britain is down to about 12% now and seems to be losing free speech anyway...

There was also the BBC - which one might suspect would stifle free speech, but which not only had a strong policy of independence from government on editorial matters, but also had private sector competitors.

Those two characteristics might not be unrelated...

Well they arrived in that sequence for radio, and later television, so if they are related, the latter cannot have caused the former.

Yeah, not so much. The BBC had private competitors even when it held a monopoly: books, newspapers, magazines.

 

[thebeave]

Man, this thread has been going on for nearly 500 pages and yet still no sign of a public beheading at a songle football field.

I'm calling bullshit.

There was that unfortunate beheading of the soldier, Rigby Lee.

Yabbut that didn't happen at a "songle football field". Whatver that is.

 

[WAB]

Man, this thread has been going on for nearly 500 pages and yet still no sign of a public beheading at a songle football field.

I'm calling bullshit.

There was that unfortunate beheading of the soldier, Rigby Lee.

Yabbut that didn't happen at a "songle football field". Whatver that is.

Yeah, and remember, to an Aussie, football refers to a strange event where a bunch of cucks and betas run around at random on a huge field kicking a round ball this way and that, with no padding at all and dressed in mamby-pamby shorts and T-shirts. You and I know that football is the game where only the smallest, weakest, and least athletic players are allowed to kick the ball!

 

[bilby]

Yeah, and remember, to an Aussie, football refers to a strange event where a bunch of cucks and betas run around at random on a huge field kicking a round ball this way and that, with no padding at all and dressed in mamby-pamby shorts and T-shirts.

No Aussie plays football with a round ball, except Sheilas, Wogs and Poofters.

The nationwide agreement as to what sport the word "football" applies, goes only so far as a consensus that it is played with an oval ball, however.

There is a schism that verges on civil war, between the Northeastern states (Queensland and New South Wales), where "football" means "Rugby League Football", and the Southern and Western states (which also have names, apparently), where "football" means something completely different and stupid.

We try not to talk* about it.








* We do not, however, restrain ourselves from shouting, arguing, bawling, yelling, screaming, or giving each other filthy looks and/or gestures about it.

 

[TSwizzle]

they are not here to integrate.

 

[DrZoidberg]

they are not here to integrate.

In Denmark they've just said flat out no to religious clothing in professional settings. Or in schools. I think its great.

I used to think the Danish integration demands were heavy handed. But us immigrants like it. Integrating is hard work. And all humans are lazy. Once you've done the work its just so easy forever. And Danes are super welcoming and friendly once you get into the culture. Copenhagen is one of the most tolerant cities on Earth. That's why I moved here

I think this should be the model for every country.

 

[Bomb#20]

Yeah, and remember, to an Aussie, football refers to a strange event where a bunch of cucks and betas run around at random on a huge field kicking a round ball this way and that, with no padding at all and dressed in mamby-pamby shorts and T-shirts.

No Aussie plays football with a round ball, except Sheilas, Wogs and Poofters.

Of course the balls you lot run around at random on a huge field kicking are round! You can clearly see it in this video.



You're probably going to claim a circle isn't really round just because it's flat on two sides.

 

[bilby]

they are not here to integrate.

She can see perfectly well. She can breathe just fine. If a bus operator needs to be identified (what kind of "emergency" would need that to happen?) they have a driver's licence, a PCV licence, the fleet number of the bus, the registration number of the bus, and even the route number and time to fall back on - do you imagine that Stockwell Depot's admin team don't know exactly which driver was issued bus EH306 at that time*?

All of the objections in that post are absurd. The poster's actual objection is pure bigotry, and they are desperately trying to portray it is being based in reason, which it very much is not.

Only a complete moron, or another bigot, would fall for such desperation.





* Hey, look - I was able to identify the depot and full fleet mumber just from the information in that very short snippet of video.

 

[DrZoidberg]

they are not here to integrate.

She can see perfectly well. She can breathe just fine. If a bus operator needs to be identified (what kind of "emergency" would need that to happen?) they have a driver's licence, a PCV licence, the fleet number of the bus, the registration number of the bus, and even the route number and time to fall back on - do you imagine that Stockwell Depot's admin team don't know exactly which driver was issued bus EH306 at that time?

All of the objections in that post are absurd. The poster's actual objection is pure bigotry, and they are desperately trying to portray it is being based in reason, which it very much is not.

Only a complete moron, or another bigot, would fall for such desperation.

Wanting to see the face of your bus driver is absurd?

 

[TSwizzle]

In Denmark they've just said flat out no to religious clothing in professional settings. Or in schools. I think its great.

I used to think the Danish integration demands were heavy handed. But us immigrants like it. Integrating is hard work. And all humans are lazy. Once you've done the work its just so easy forever.

It is not possible to make muslims integrate. The vast majority of them do not want to integrate into a society they hate.

And Danes are super welcoming and friendly once you get into the culture. Copenhagen is one of the most tolerant cities on Earth. That's why I moved here

I think this should be the model for every country.

I am sure this is probably the case for you since you are of European/Western culture.

 

[Bomb#20]

The nationwide agreement as to what sport the word "football" applies, goes only so far as a consensus that it is played with an oval ball, however.

There is a schism that verges on civil war, between the Northeastern states (Queensland and New South Wales), where "football" means "Rugby League Football", and the Southern and Western states (which also have names, apparently), where "football" means something completely different and stupid.

We try not to talk* about it.


* We do not, however, restrain ourselves from shouting, arguing, bawling, yelling, screaming, or giving each other filthy looks and/or gestures about it.

This, you call a "northeastern state". Thank you for admitting the Melbourne perspective is the correct one. Rugby League Football is what's completely different and stupid.

 

[Tigers!]

Yeah, and remember, to an Aussie, football refers to a strange event where a bunch of cucks and betas run around at random on a huge field kicking a round ball this way and that, with no padding at all and dressed in mamby-pamby shorts and T-shirts.

No Aussie plays football with a round ball, except Sheilas, Wogs and Poofters, Poms.

FIFY

There is a schism that verges on civil war, between the Northeastern states (Queensland and New South Wales), where "football" means "Rugby League Football", and the Southern and Western states (which also have names, apparently), where "football" means something completely different and stupid.

We try not to talk* about it.


* We do not, however, restrain ourselves from shouting, arguing, bawling, yelling, screaming, or giving each other filthy looks and/or gestures about it.

We need to have something to talk about apart from whether its called

• A parmi or Parma? - Its a parma
• Potato cake or a scallop? - Its a potato cake
• Why is Qld beer called XXXX? - Cause they can't spell beer

Time for the old joke


What is the only reason Qld tolerates NSW?
They keep Victoria further away

 

[Tigers!]

Man, this thread has been going on for nearly 500 pages and yet still no sign of a public beheading at a songle football field.

I'm calling bullshit.

There was that unfortunate beheading of the soldier, Rigby Lee.

Yabbut that didn't happen at a "songle football field". Whatver that is.

Yeah, and remember, to an Aussie, football refers to a strange event where a bunch of cucks and betas run around at random on a huge field kicking a round ball this way and that, with no padding at all and dressed in mamby-pamby shorts and T-shirts. You and I know that football is the game where only the smallest, weakest, and least athletic players are allowed to kick the ball!

For a yank that is actually a coherent and concise desription.

 

[Emily Lake]

As a relative term, “starvation” can mean literally insufficient caloric intake to maintain biological function, or it can mean getting kicked out of the billionaire club.

Starvation = only a millionaire or less
Slave = need to work to pay bills
Theft = taxes
Trauma = was inconvenienced and it made one angry or sad
Violence = hurty words
Fascist = conservative of any ilk
Communist = liberal of any ilk

Sematic inflation is exhausting. And annoying.

 

[Emily Lake]

Good lord that's romanticized.

It's Danielle Steele level.

 

[Emily Lake]

It is not possible to make muslims integrate. The vast majority of them do not want to integrate into a society they hate.

I want to make a distinction here that I think is causing more disagreement than is needed.

A) People of middle eastern heritage, whether muslim or not, who immigrated through the normal immigration channels in the late 20th century
... vs ...
B) People of islamic belief, regardless of ethnicity, who have come into the west claiming asylum or refugee status in the 21st century

These aren't the same groups of people. Group A wanted to be in the west, wanted to be part of western culture, and assimilated. Many are still muslims... but they're muslims in the way that presbyterians are christians. They believe in a god, but they're not particularly pushy about it and they're more theoretical than book-driven.

Group B didn't want to be in the west and are only here as an escape from strife*. They haven't assimilated and don't want to assimilate. Many are fundamentalist muslims who want the west to adapt to their beliefs. They're highly book driven and often very antithetical to western culture.

Group A is awesome, I know many and work with several. Group B is currently causing problems throughout the western world. There are many cases of religious leaders from Group B flat out stating their intention to take political power and turn the west to their ways.

Group A are immigrants; Group B are colonizers. Group A values western liberalism; Group B sees western liberalism as an enemy to be destroyed.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

*Also worth noting that at least some (not all) of Group B aren't escaping strife, but are using strife as cover to import their ideology.

 

[bilby]

they are not here to integrate.

She can see perfectly well. She can breathe just fine. If a bus operator needs to be identified (what kind of "emergency" would need that to happen?) they have a driver's licence, a PCV licence, the fleet number of the bus, the registration number of the bus, and even the route number and time to fall back on - do you imagine that Stockwell Depot's admin team don't know exactly which driver was issued bus EH306 at that time?

All of the objections in that post are absurd. The poster's actual objection is pure bigotry, and they are desperately trying to portray it is being based in reason, which it very much is not.

Only a complete moron, or another bigot, would fall for such desperation.

Wanting to see the face of your bus driver is absurd?

It's irrelevant.

 

[bilby]

The nationwide agreement as to what sport the word "football" applies, goes only so far as a consensus that it is played with an oval ball, however.

There is a schism that verges on civil war, between the Northeastern states (Queensland and New South Wales), where "football" means "Rugby League Football", and the Southern and Western states (which also have names, apparently), where "football" means something completely different and stupid.

We try not to talk* about it.


* We do not, however, restrain ourselves from shouting, arguing, bawling, yelling, screaming, or giving each other filthy looks and/or gestures about it.

This, you call a "northeastern state".

Well, not really. But we try not to mention that they aren't very good at being Northeastern, or at playing football.

 

[Patooka]

The nationwide agreement as to what sport the word "football" applies, goes only so far as a consensus that it is played with an oval ball, however.

There is a schism that verges on civil war, between the Northeastern states (Queensland and New South Wales), where "football" means "Rugby League Football", and the Southern and Western states (which also have names, apparently), where "football" means something completely different and stupid.

We try not to talk* about it.


* We do not, however, restrain ourselves from shouting, arguing, bawling, yelling, screaming, or giving each other filthy looks and/or gestures about it.

This, you call a "northeastern state". Thank you for admitting the Melbourne perspective is the correct one. Rugby League Football is what's completely different and stupid.

Absolutely. I mean, for fucks sake it's there in the state's name.