Europe submits voluntarily

[whichphilosophy]

Odd headline in the Guardian;

Hundreds of Britons caught trying to join jihadis, says foreign secretary

A total of 600 UK citizens have been caught trying to enter Syria to join the Islamic State and other Islamist groups since 2012, the foreign secretary, Philip Hammond, has said.

Speaking on a visit to southern Turkey on Friday, Hammond said an estimated 800 UK citizens – believed to be made up of mainly fighters and their family members – had managed to enter Syria in the past four years, with half of those believed to still be inside the country.

Hammond said British and Turkish intelligence services had worked together to apprehend hundreds of Britons on their way to join the civil war, stopping some at the UK border and seizing others on planes or trains arriving in Istanbul.

Guardian

Are you seriously expecting the British government to do anything about those who are returned?

 

[whichphilosophy]

Is there in some corner of the Western world where moslems have integrated with Western culture?

Every city in the Western world.

Your conception that they are monolithic is true blindness.

That vast majority; that is true. The problem is that we are now trying to absorb more than we can handle, and this includes people who are not genuine Asylum seekers. While this is a burden on the tax payer the West should (though I doubt it will) consider reparations to try to build up those countries destroyed by the wars it instigated.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Is there in some corner of the Western world where moslems have integrated with Western culture?

Any culture integrates pretty well assuming the numbers are small enough. Some cultures are a problem when there are enough of them that they can exist to a fair degree in isolation from the main culture they are part of.

The same sort of pattern exists and is much easier to see when dealing with language--immigrants who marry those that speak their own language generally fare much worse at English than those who marry people who don't speak their native language. Now, a failure to learn the language is generally only a problem for the immigrant. A failure to adapt to our culture can be a problem for others, though.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Is there in some corner of the Western world where moslems have integrated with Western culture?

Any culture integrates pretty well assuming the numbers are small enough. Some cultures are a problem when there are enough of them that they can exist to a fair degree in isolation from the main culture they are part of.

The same sort of pattern exists and is much easier to see when dealing with language--immigrants who marry those that speak their own language generally fare much worse at English than those who marry people who don't speak their native language. Now, a failure to learn the language is generally only a problem for the immigrant. A failure to adapt to our culture can be a problem for others, though.

The problem is Europe does not need migration in large numbers as it cannot cope with such amounts.

 

[angelo]

Any culture integrates pretty well assuming the numbers are small enough. Some cultures are a problem when there are enough of them that they can exist to a fair degree in isolation from the main culture they are part of.

The same sort of pattern exists and is much easier to see when dealing with language--immigrants who marry those that speak their own language generally fare much worse at English than those who marry people who don't speak their native language. Now, a failure to learn the language is generally only a problem for the immigrant. A failure to adapt to our culture can be a problem for others, though.

The problem is Europe does not need migration in large numbers as it cannot cope with such amounts.

Not just Europe. All Western culture will find it extremely hard to integrate the numbers in discussion here in a short time. That's why in Britain and in most Euro cities migrants have taken over whole suburbs.

 

[whichphilosophy]

The problem is Europe does not need migration in large numbers as it cannot cope with such amounts.

Not just Europe. All Western culture will find it extremely hard to integrate the numbers in discussion here in a short time. That's why in Britain and in most Euro cities migrants have taken over whole suburbs.

This is also part of the previous Labour government's driving immigration into England when in my view the country is overpopulated in relation to its facilities and workforce. More recently the latest migrants are in many cases not bringing in any skills since all entry requirements have been more or less waived. The real problems will occur in about five (5) years time at this rate. Small minorities will expand to 5 times the size and we can expect internal security problems.

Perhaps a unique situation, is Britain's main anti immigration party the UKIP also received quite a few immigrant votes in the last elections and many of its candidates were of different ethnic backgrounds. This is because many of the 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants also have the view that the country is now overloaded.

 

[untermensche]

Every city in the Western world.

Your conception that they are monolithic is true blindness.

That vast majority; that is true. The problem is that we are now trying to absorb more than we can handle, and this includes people who are not genuine Asylum seekers. While this is a burden on the tax payer the West should (though I doubt it will) consider reparations to try to build up those countries destroyed by the wars it instigated.

Any nation that supported the US invasion of Iraq should be paying the costs with the US and Britain paying the largest part.

That is the reason we have these refugees.

 

[whichphilosophy]

That vast majority; that is true. The problem is that we are now trying to absorb more than we can handle, and this includes people who are not genuine Asylum seekers. While this is a burden on the tax payer the West should (though I doubt it will) consider reparations to try to build up those countries destroyed by the wars it instigated.

Any nation that supported the US invasion of Iraq should be paying the costs with the US and Britain paying the largest part.

That is the reason we have these refugees.

This I would agree something should be done, but a vast amount are not refugees but economic migrants. Due to our poor border control criminal traffickers have pushing people in from other countries as far afield as Pakistan, and Bangladesh. In Italy where I was working, migrants refused even finger printing and had no papers. So while they cannot apply for Asylum, they can stay indefinitely.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Is there in some corner of the Western world where moslems have integrated with Western culture?

Any culture integrates pretty well assuming the numbers are small enough. Some cultures are a problem when there are enough of them that they can exist to a fair degree in isolation from the main culture they are part of.

The same sort of pattern exists and is much easier to see when dealing with language--immigrants who marry those that speak their own language generally fare much worse at English than those who marry people who don't speak their native language. Now, a failure to learn the language is generally only a problem for the immigrant. A failure to adapt to our culture can be a problem for others, though.

I think there's a common misunderstanding what cultural integration means. All it means is that a person understands another culture well enough to get by in it. It doesn't mean forgetting one's own cultural background.

What typically happens when somebody migrates is that they create a third identity. They neither feel they belong to the country they left. Nor the country they come to. They feel sort of at home in both cultures. As well as a bit a part.

Immigrants tend to exaggerate rituals from their home cultures. Traditions they didn't really care about in their home country become extremely important in the new country. There can be many explanations to why this occurs. One simple explanation could be that they feel an insecurity about their identity or insecurity in general. Traditions and ritual become more important to us when we feel insecure. We grab at anything familiar. Even when it's counter productive to do so.

Integration doesn't mean wiping out every trace of one's birth culture and taking on the traditions of the new home country. Nobody works like that and if you expect that, you'll be disappointed.

The good news is that these rituals and traditions are mostly just superficial. Regarding all the important stuff humans do, which also counts as culture, humans tend to be highly adaptable. When it comes to learning the language of the home culture it all depends upon if they need to learn it. In Sweden all Swedes speak English. An immigrant to Sweden really doesn't need to know Swedish. There's plenty of jobs anyway. Obviously it's better to know Swedish than not. But all people need to prioritise their time. And learning Swedish might just not be at the top of the list if they're getting by anyway.

So Arabs who move to Sweden we look and behave way more Arab than they would in their home countries... but in the big picture it really doesn't matter.

 

[bigfield]

The problem is Europe does not need migration in large numbers as it cannot cope with such amounts.

Not just Europe. All Western culture will find it extremely hard to integrate the numbers in discussion here in a short time. That's why in Britain and in most Euro cities migrants have taken over whole suburbs.

Demented bullshit.

What are the names of these imaginary suburbs "in Britain and in most Euro cities"?

 

[whichphilosophy]

Not just Europe. All Western culture will find it extremely hard to integrate the numbers in discussion here in a short time. That's why in Britain and in most Euro cities migrants have taken over whole suburbs.

Demented bullshit.

What are the names of these imaginary suburbs "in Britain and in most Euro cities"?

The degree that something can be a no go area which was no mentioned by me is not the first issue facing Europe. It has to accommodate for a high flux of migrants which are sometimes followed by families etc. This puts a very high economic burden on the economy for shelters, schooling, medical services and policing. You may look at YOUTUBE to see videos showing for instance Norwegian and German police who have a problem in some migrant areas with keeping control.

There quite a few reports. You can look at these, but more checking would be required.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7tMk-QM3e4 This is quoting reports on ZDF

Here is a problematic school.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csOvTKkMBtM

I am sure there are a majority who apply themselves to learning and bettering themselves. Middle Easterners (whom I worked with) are hard working and diligent.

On the other side of the coin right wing fanatics are sometimes stirring things up. Nonetheless, indications are that we have rising problems in Europe.

With 1.1 million unchecked migrants driven into Germany by Merkel means a certain percentage will be problematic to deal with.

 

[TSwizzle]

Any culture integrates pretty well assuming the numbers are small enough. Some cultures are a problem when there are enough of them that they can exist to a fair degree in isolation from the main culture they are part of.

Ross Douthat covers it pretty well;

My Sunday column argued, fairly strenuously, that mass immigration on the scale of the last two years will put more stress on the politics and culture of Germany than any prudent statesman should accept, and that the German government should do everything in its power to not only limit migration but actually restrict asylum rights and begin deportation for some of the migrants who have already arrived.

NYT

 

[whichphilosophy]

Ross Douthat covers it pretty well;

My Sunday column argued, fairly strenuously, that mass immigration on the scale of the last two years will put more stress on the politics and culture of Germany than any prudent statesman should accept, and that the German government should do everything in its power to not only limit migration but actually restrict asylum rights and begin deportation for some of the migrants who have already arrived.

NYT

The German government at best will make token gestures on controlling its borders, but such policy is not for Germany to decide as this is for the European government to decide. Unless Germany acts in defiance, nothing will change. Since the German government is now more of a problem then the Eu the possibility of immediate action is very remote. It may act when it is too late. As for deportations for criminals those, with no ID and cannot remember their birth date are untraceable so cannot be deported per Eu roles.

How can Germany now deport others who are not genuine asylum seekers, when it was its own government which drove them in.

The solutions to halt economic migration and repatriate over stayers, criminals and illegals (per ignored German legislation) can be implemented but again very unlikely in the near future.
Merkel acted contrary to German law and for no logical reason for Germany's benefit.

 

[angelo]

Not just Europe. All Western culture will find it extremely hard to integrate the numbers in discussion here in a short time. That's why in Britain and in most Euro cities migrants have taken over whole suburbs.

Demented bullshit.

What are the names of these imaginary suburbs "in Britain and in most Euro cities"?

Google it! Here in Perth WA, there's the suburbs of Mirabooka, Lansdale, Queens Park that are a minimum 30% moslem and growing.

 

[bilby]

Demented bullshit.

What are the names of these imaginary suburbs "in Britain and in most Euro cities"?

Google it! Here in Perth WA, there's the suburbs of Mirabooka, Lansdale, Queens Park that are a minimum 30% moslem and growing.

I Googled it.

http://myboot.com.au/6061/Mirrabooka/demographics.aspx
Mirrabooka -
1. Christianity (46.76%)
2. Islam (19.20%)
3. Buddhism (9.84%)
4. Others or no religion (9.33%)
5. Hinduism (0.72%)
6. Judaism (0.05%)

http://myboot.com.au/6065/Landsdale/demographics.aspx
Lansdale -
1. Christianity (64.45%)
2. Others or no religion (5.35%)
3. Islam (4.16%)
4. Buddhism (3.69%)
5. Hinduism (2.37%)
6. Judaism (0.25%)

http://myboot.com.au/6107/Queens%20Park/demographics.aspx
Queens Park -
1. Christianity (47.79%)
2. Islam (11.93%)
3. Others or no religion (8.75%)
4. Buddhism (6.32%)
5. Hinduism (3.74%)
6. Judaism (0.17%)

None of these suburbs has CLOSE to 30% Muslims, according to the latest census figures. Lansdale has less than 5%; There are more 'others or no religion' in Lansdale than there are Muslims.

Hint: Before you make an arse of yourself by posting a completely false claim and challenging people to 'Google it!', it would be wise to Google it yourself.

 

[repoman]

Angelo's wording still may be correct:

he said "suburbs of" those places. So maybe there are more facts that can clarify the points. Do those places have suburbs?

 

[angelo]

Ten years ago there were less than 5% in most of those suburbs. In another ten years those numbers will quadruple. The suburb of Lansdale is a generalization. Around that Eastern zone, including Canington, Riverton, Kenwick, Kelmscot, ect,ect are magnets for moslems

 

[whichphilosophy]

Ten years ago there were less than 5% in most of those suburbs. In another ten years those numbers will quadruple. The suburb of Lansdale is a generalization. Around that Eastern zone, including Canington, Riverton, Kenwick, Kelmscot, ect,ect are magnets for moslems

As for Europe, the vast numbers coming in are amplified by the fact that most are young men from around 18 to 35 plus, not a diverse population. According to the German press Pakistan and the Arab and North African countries are refusing to take back rejected individuals. The solution as you know would have been border checks and standard procedures. So now Germany has a double problem though it is not clear how seriously it wishes to repatriate anyone.

 

[bilby]

Angelo's wording still may be correct:

he said "suburbs of" those places. So maybe there are more facts that can clarify the points. Do those places have suburbs?

No, they ARE suburbs.

 

[bilby]

Ten years ago there were less than 5% in most of those suburbs. In another ten years those numbers will quadruple. The suburb of Lansdale is a generalization. Around that Eastern zone, including Canington, Riverton, Kenwick, Kelmscot, ect,ect are magnets for moslems

None of which impresses me one whit; You were completely wrong about the "minimum 30% moslem" claim, so why would anyone be stupid enough to accept further (also unsourced) claims from you?

You have demonstrated that you have no idea what you are talking about; so any further talk from you is futile.