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This actually happened in Sweden

http://usuncut.com/world/masked-men-storms-swedish-train-station-beating-child-refugees/

This is what spreading racist lies leads to.

Here's the government agency that collects crime statistics in Sweden. You can read it with Google translate. The recent wave of immigration isn't visible at all in the statistics.

https://www.bra.se/bra/brott-och-statistik/brottsutvecklingen.html
I wouldn't expect the immigrants to become criminals right away: this is when they are most optimistic about their future. The problems arise a couple of years down the road when they become disillusioned and more and more of them fall through the cracks of society.
 
Some have trouble understanding that Anarchism may look similar to anarchy but the words do not have close to the same meaning.

Anarchism seeks to create order.

But without the top-down authoritarian structures of communism and capitalism, those two cousins.

The result is the same.

That's not what witnesses, like Orwell said.

"I had dropped more or less by chance into the only community of any size in Western Europe where political consciousness and disbelief in capitalism were more normal than their opposites. Up here in Aragon one was among tens of thousands of people, mainly though not entirely of working-class origin, all living at the same level and mingling on terms of equality. In theory it was perfect equality, and even in practice it was not far from it. There is a sense in which it would be true to say that one was experiencing a foretaste of Socialism, by which I mean that the prevailing mental atmosphere was that of Socialism. Many of the normal motives of civilized life—snobbishness, money-grubbing, fear of the boss, etc.--had simply ceased to exist. The ordinary class-division of society had disappeared to an extent that is almost unthinkable in the money-tainted air of England; there was no one there except the peasants and ourselves, and no one owned anyone else as his master."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism_in_Spain
 
This actually happened in Sweden

http://usuncut.com/world/masked-men-storms-swedish-train-station-beating-child-refugees/

This is what spreading racist lies leads to.

Here's the government agency that collects crime statistics in Sweden. You can read it with Google translate. The recent wave of immigration isn't visible at all in the statistics.

https://www.bra.se/bra/brott-och-statistik/brottsutvecklingen.html

While the incident with masked men did occur the content is not entirely accurate. Several Moroccans come to Sweden to play the system by claiming they are under age. They are not forced to live in the Streets. The Swedish government gives them priority as they are claiming to be underage. They run away. Just like Roma children who appear in England, they run away from care homes to the streets to make money often we find for gang bosses. In Sweden including the person accused of murdering a care worker their ages are suspect.

In Morocco there are several street gangs which make money from stealing and crimes. Sweden is a soft target The article also failed to mention interviews with Swedish officials wherein they had lost control of the crime wave in Stokholm Station where women were groped and robbed during 28 January 2015. Just like Germany (Cologne) the media was first leaked through minority media and the British Media. Morocco is getting aid from various European countries which is why Germany has threatened to stop financial assistance as that country is refusing to take back rejected migrants. There again why should Morocco take back the criminals it is glad to get rid of if they were accepted in into Europe?

Even though the Middle East and North Africa have low literacy rates and have economic problems, there are also quite a few who are highly educated and proficient in engineering, IT English and medicine. These people just like most of the Arabs are sophisticated along with most who are not educated. There again if Europe is also obsessed with hovering them up from their own countries, that will perpetuate the existing brain drain. Due to the gullibility of Sweden's government it takes anyone without checking them in itself is a security risk.

The right wing fanatics didn't improve anything and at least the article is correct if it says that these buffoons hit out at anything they could which didn't look Swedish. This is also predictable.

As for the statistics, one can no longer trust the presentations from the government controlled media in Sweden where in the face of growing crime from a section of migrants both who have been in Sweden for a while and those who newly come in. The Ethnic backgrounds of the accused are excluded in the press (at least some of the time) and some sentences are light. Sweden as you know was the first country to abolish censorship but that does not exclude the introduction of self censorship of the press in collusion with the government. Incidents preceding those in Cologne were not given coverage by the media. Again these come out in the minority press or foreign media.

It is a logical fallacy to assume that taking in 150,000 or so people in a year just by the fact that they arrive that there will be no proportional consequence in terms of crime (most of which would be petty). While Sweden claims it is deporting half of them and over a period of a few years, (no doubt many will find safe houses and melt into the background). Then if Sweden experiences what Germany did, Morocco, Algeria, Bangladesh and Pakistan will delay or refuse in taking back such migrants. Based on the experience of Britain it is likely to be more costly to deport illegals than to keep them. Those who play the system no doubt expect that Sweden may grant them an amnesty. Then (per the UK experience) deportees simply re enter the country again.

Sweden has at least started to toughen up its border checks which have already resulted in a reduction of people coming in. These are the very checks that should have been applied in the first place.
 
The recent wave of immigration isn't visible at all in the statistics.
Especially if you don't include it.

I did. in the post. It shows crime statistics since 2005. The graph is flat. There is no noticeable increase of any crime since immigration started. What little difference it is can be put down to statistical variance. This BTW has been confirmed by various professors of criminology over and over again. But people just don't care. Racists want refugees to be dangerous. So they'll only hear those reports.

What is interesting is, is the fact that Swedish people feel less safe now. I think the culprit here is the media. The media is exaggerating reports on crime committed by refugees. No, they're not exaggerating the numbers. But they are writing it on the first page with bold font. Stuff like that matters. So now people are afraid of the refugees for no reason.
 
This actually happened in Sweden

http://usuncut.com/world/masked-men-storms-swedish-train-station-beating-child-refugees/

This is what spreading racist lies leads to.

Here's the government agency that collects crime statistics in Sweden. You can read it with Google translate. The recent wave of immigration isn't visible at all in the statistics.

https://www.bra.se/bra/brott-och-statistik/brottsutvecklingen.html
I wouldn't expect the immigrants to become criminals right away: this is when they are most optimistic about their future. The problems arise a couple of years down the road when they become disillusioned and more and more of them fall through the cracks of society.

Sweden is pretty socialist. There's plenty wrong with Sweden. But this isn't one of them. We have free education and no limit on welfare. If you stay at the bottom in Sweden it is your fault in more ways than it would be in, lets say, USA. Sweden also has a very strong economy. So if you do get your act together and get an education there's plenty of opportunities. Sweden is also properly bilingual. Even if it helps to speak Swedish you can get by in the market with only English.

So I don't think this is a worry.
 
There are several recent stories coming out. This is caused by a minority but given the high volume of people pouring in, that minority is proportionally large

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...te-ten-year-old-boy-raped-multiple-times.html
Police flee for their lives at Swedish migrant camp after they are surrounded by screaming mob as they try to relocate ten-year-old boy ‘who had been raped multiple times’

The attack allegedly happened in the town of Västerås in central Sweden
Staff at the refugee centre feared the 10-year-old boy was being abused
They failed to remove the child after the refugee would not let the child go
Ten police officers failed to safe the child after being attacked by the mob

One of the officers told the Vestmanlands Läns Tidning newspaper: 'Even more people appeared behind us. I was mentally prepared to fight for my life. We were 10 police officers in a narrow corridor. And I hear someone yell that there is an emergency exit.'

The incident happened last Wednesday, before a 15-year-old asylum seeker in Sweden was accused of murdering a girl working in a refugee centre. END OF QUOTE

QUOTE According to Russia Today, Police Union Director Lena Nitz said: ' Many of the problems we are now facing help to prove the point that Swedish police have long been underfunded and understaffed.' ,” Police Union Director Lena Nitz, told TT news agency.

This follows the murder of Alexandra Mezher, who was stabbed to death at a refugee centre in Molndal, near Gothenburg on Sweden's west coast.

A police spokesman did not give details about the man’s age or nationality but confirmed he had been arrested for murder. END OF QUOTE

I tried Googling this. Didn't come up with anything in the Swedish media. The closest I found was this:

http://vlt.se/nyheter/vasteras/1.3488614-poliser-tvingades-fly-fran-asylboende

I think this is the same story. But the Swedish story is simply that the cops made a judgement call that they were outnumbered, given the situation, and needed backup so they retreated back out onto the street and waited for backup. This comes into the category of not taking unnecessary risks on the job. The backup came and everything was sorted without a bump. Yes, the Swedish article is also overly dramatic in it's wording. But if you read what it says there's really no drama here.

This is the third Daily Mail article posted in this thread that doesn't match the source article at all. Ie is nothing but lies. I suggest you stop reading the Daily Mail. Just an observation.

Can't wait for the apologists response!

You're welcome
 
Especially if you don't include it.

I did. in the post. It shows crime statistics since 2005. The graph is flat. There is no noticeable increase of any crime since immigration started. What little difference it is can be put down to statistical variance. This BTW has been confirmed by various professors of criminology over and over again. But people just don't care. Racists want refugees to be dangerous. So they'll only hear those reports.

What is interesting is, is the fact that Swedish people feel less safe now. I think the culprit here is the media. The media is exaggerating reports on crime committed by refugees. No, they're not exaggerating the numbers. But they are writing it on the first page with bold font. Stuff like that matters. So now people are afraid of the refugees for no reason.

You are referring to the sanitized party political statistics from the government. Other reports tell a different story. Also rape statistics have not been reported for a number of years

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Sweden

QUOTE In 2014, there were 6,700 rapes reported to the Swedish police—or 69 cases per 100,000 population—according to the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention (BRÅ), which is an 11 percent increase from the previous year.[5] The number of convictions has remained relatively unchanged since 2005, with approximately 190 convictions on average each year.[6][7]

There have been several international comparisons made, placing Sweden at the top end of the number of reported rapes. However, police procedures and legal definitions vary widely across countries, which makes it difficult to compare rape statistics.[8][9][10][11] For example, Sweden reformed its sex crime legislation and made the legal definition of rape much wider in 2005,[3][4][8][12] which largely explains a significant increase in the number of reported rapes in the ten-year period of 2004-2013.[13][14] The Swedish police also record each instance of sexual violence in every case separately, leading to an inflated number of cases compared to other countries.[8][11][15] Additionally, the Swedish police have improved the handling of rape cases, in an effort to increase the number of crimes reported.[8][14][16][17] Raised awareness and a shifting attitude of sexual crimes in Sweden,[note 1][18] which has been ranked as the number one country in gender equality,[19] may also explain the relatively high rates of reported rape.[8][11][20]

The BRÅ has not released detailed data on rape committed by immigrants since 1996, but according to that report individuals with an immigrant background made up 61% of all rape convictions between 1985 and 1989.[21] UNQUOTE.


So clearly if crimes are not reported it does not mean they do not happen.

See also

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime#Sweden

See sub topic Sweden

However this assumption agrees with what I have previously stated:

QUOTE that culture is unlikely to be a strong cause of crime among immigrants UNQUOTE

My point is that the crimes are not because they are migrants but because of a lack of checks at the border (recently showing signs of being implemented) where there could be socio economic factors but the fact that some criminals are taking the opportunity to mingle with the genuine asylum seekers.
 
This actually happened in Sweden

http://usuncut.com/world/masked-men-storms-swedish-train-station-beating-child-refugees/

This is what spreading racist lies leads to.

Here's the government agency that collects crime statistics in Sweden. You can read it with Google translate. The recent wave of immigration isn't visible at all in the statistics.

https://www.bra.se/bra/brott-och-statistik/brottsutvecklingen.html

While the incident with masked men did occur the content is not entirely accurate. Several Moroccans come to Sweden to play the system by claiming they are under age. They are not forced to live in the Streets. The Swedish government gives them priority as they are claiming to be underage. They run away. Just like Roma children who appear in England, they run away from care homes to the streets to make money often we find for gang bosses. In Sweden including the person accused of murdering a care worker their ages are suspect.

In Morocco there are several street gangs which make money from stealing and crimes. Sweden is a soft target The article also failed to mention interviews with Swedish officials wherein they had lost control of the crime wave in Stokholm Station where women were groped and robbed during 28 January 2015. Just like Germany (Cologne) the media was first leaked through minority media and the British Media. Morocco is getting aid from various European countries which is why Germany has threatened to stop financial assistance as that country is refusing to take back rejected migrants. There again why should Morocco take back the criminals it is glad to get rid of if they were accepted in into Europe?

Even though the Middle East and North Africa have low literacy rates and have economic problems, there are also quite a few who are highly educated and proficient in engineering, IT English and medicine. These people just like most of the Arabs are sophisticated along with most who are not educated. There again if Europe is also obsessed with hovering them up from their own countries, that will perpetuate the existing brain drain. Due to the gullibility of Sweden's government it takes anyone without checking them in itself is a security risk.

Let's get the things straight here. There is an unconfirmed rumour that Morocco (maybe the government itself) are dealing with their street kid problem by sending them to Sweden. But let's assume for the sake of argument that this is true. This is cruel on many levels since Sweden won't accept these kids. They will all get sent back. They don't qualify as refugees in any way. This is just Morocco shirking responsibility.

BTW, the article that went viral on Moroccan kids invading the Swedish train station is just made up. I live in the city and pass through it minimum twice a day. There's not a trace of it here. And Sweden is fucking cold right now. This is not the time of year to loiter in. Just last week we had -20 degrees Celsius in the streets. That'll freeze your nuts off if you stand still for any length of time. I suspect that the one cop who talked to SVT (the source of this viral piece) said it to get attention to what Morocco is doing. But rather than hating Morocco for it, people immediately just went racist. Which I suspect wasn't the original plan.

It should also be mentioned that this (if true) seems to be used as a political bargaining chip to strong arm Sweden into supporting Morocco in it's conflict surrounding Western Sahara. Morocco won't take these children/boys (it's just boys) back unless Sweden... who the fuck knows what Morocco wants. So far Sweden has done everything Morocco has asked for yet they won't take the children back. I'm pretty sure these kids understand what's happening and that they're just used as a tool of political pressure by Morocco. That's not going to make them want to behave, now is it. Let's never forget these are children and are doing what children always have done... misbehave. And now when Swedish resources are stretched thin regarding the refugees, the added Moroccan street kids are not helping.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Sahara_conflict

The right wing fanatics didn't improve anything and at least the article is correct if it says that these buffoons hit out at anything they could which didn't look Swedish. This is also predictable.

The sad thing is that these aren't right with fanatics. The reports I've read is that these are just well meaning (but stupid) ordinary people who have been shocked by all the (made up) reports. Who are frustrated and angry about it. No, it's not predictable. Because it's so extreme. I don't think anybody saw this coming. This is way off the deep end. This mirrors exactly what happened in the 20'ies and 30'ies when Nazis managed to terrify ordinary people into violence against minorities. Also based on nothing but lies.

As for the statistics, one can no longer trust the presentations from the government controlled media in Sweden where in the face of growing crime from a section of migrants both who have been in Sweden for a while and those who newly come in.

1. That's crazy talk

2. Obviously wrong if you care to do a little research. The official statistics are an excellent mirror of what is going on.

3. So if you don't trust the official statistics any longer who are you going to chose to trust? You're not going to make the fallacy of "argument from ignorance" are you?

4. Sweden does have government financed media but they aren't actually controlled by the government. The Swedish government has gone to great lengths to make sure the state financed media is in every way independent from any form of political pressure. They've even put in place an also independent judiciary (KU) to oversee that both the government doesn't try any funny business and that the state financed media aren't taking bribes.

I think what you are reacting to is the fact that Swedish official statistics and state controlled media aren't as upset and angry as they should be if international reporting was correct. Which assumes that international reporting is correct.

The Ethnic backgrounds of the accused are excluded in the press (at least some of the time) and some sentences are light. Sweden as you know was the first country to abolish censorship but that does not exclude the introduction of self censorship of the press in collusion with the government. Incidents preceding those in Cologne were not given coverage by the media. Again these come out in the minority press or foreign media.

I have no idea wtf you are talking about. If there's any censorship of the press I have no clue what you're talking about. We have dozens of racist blogs operating quite openly writing nothing but lies. The fact that those are allowed to stay in business I think proves you wrong.

It is a logical fallacy to assume that taking in 150,000 or so people in a year just by the fact that they arrive that there will be no proportional consequence in terms of crime (most of which would be petty). While Sweden claims it is deporting half of them and over a period of a few years, (no doubt many will find safe houses and melt into the background). Then if Sweden experiences what Germany did, Morocco, Algeria, Bangladesh and Pakistan will delay or refuse in taking back such migrants. Based on the experience of Britain it is likely to be more costly to deport illegals than to keep them. Those who play the system no doubt expect that Sweden may grant them an amnesty. Then (per the UK experience) deportees simply re enter the country again.

This is an excellent point. Sweden has yet to experience what happened in Cologne. As has any other city except Cologne on this one day. I'm not saying this to minimise what happened. It is very serious. But some sense of proportion is in order. It hasn't happened here yet.

I suspect it's a question of social re-enforcement. A man in a social context where such behaviour isn't re-enforced will stop doing it. I suspect the public European outcry over what happened in Cologne has already had the desired effect.

Sweden has at least started to toughen up its border checks which have already resulted in a reduction of people coming in. These are the very checks that should have been applied in the first place.

I don't agree. All increased border checks do is make it more valuable to steal identity papers. If anything it only acts to complicate the asylum process. We filter out honest people to the benefit of thieves. I fail to see how that is to the best interest of Sweden?

The refugee processing system is absurdly rigorous and complex. For any country. It's just layers and layers and layers of hoops to jump through to make it as difficult as possible. The fact that anybody manages to make it through the system is evidence of that:

1) There's a hell of a lot of refugees
2) Most refugees are decent people
 
Especially if you don't include it.

I did. in the post. It shows crime statistics since 2005. The graph is flat. There is no noticeable increase of any crime since immigration started. What little difference it is can be put down to statistical variance. This BTW has been confirmed by various professors of criminology over and over again. But people just don't care. Racists want refugees to be dangerous. So they'll only hear those reports.

What is interesting is, is the fact that Swedish people feel less safe now. I think the culprit here is the media. The media is exaggerating reports on crime committed by refugees. No, they're not exaggerating the numbers. But they are writing it on the first page with bold font. Stuff like that matters. So now people are afraid of the refugees for no reason.

Crime committed by refugees is simply not reported, therefore your exercise in statistics is simply futile.
 
I did. in the post. It shows crime statistics since 2005. The graph is flat. There is no noticeable increase of any crime since immigration started. What little difference it is can be put down to statistical variance. This BTW has been confirmed by various professors of criminology over and over again. But people just don't care. Racists want refugees to be dangerous. So they'll only hear those reports.

What is interesting is, is the fact that Swedish people feel less safe now. I think the culprit here is the media. The media is exaggerating reports on crime committed by refugees. No, they're not exaggerating the numbers. But they are writing it on the first page with bold font. Stuff like that matters. So now people are afraid of the refugees for no reason.

Crime committed by refugees is simply not reported, therefore your exercise in statistics is simply futile.

How do you know it even exists, if it happens on a different continent to you, and is not reported?

If you rely on pure hearsay, then how do you decide what to believe at all?

Everyone has an agenda; believing anyone is dangerous. Believing people whose reports match your prejudices is even more dangerous, because it is so easy.
 
I did. in the post. It shows crime statistics since 2005. The graph is flat. There is no noticeable increase of any crime since immigration started. What little difference it is can be put down to statistical variance. This BTW has been confirmed by various professors of criminology over and over again. But people just don't care. Racists want refugees to be dangerous. So they'll only hear those reports.

What is interesting is, is the fact that Swedish people feel less safe now. I think the culprit here is the media. The media is exaggerating reports on crime committed by refugees. No, they're not exaggerating the numbers. But they are writing it on the first page with bold font. Stuff like that matters. So now people are afraid of the refugees for no reason.

Crime committed by refugees is simply not reported, therefore your exercise in statistics is simply futile.

Do you have a reason to believe this or is this something you just made up?

Personally, I think you are wrong.

edit: The more I think of it the less sense it makes. In what way is it in anybody's interest that the statistics are falsified? Isn't everybody happier with reliable statistics? Even Syrian refugees who are looking for a country to settle in, wouldn't they want to have reliable statistics so they can chose a country with less crime?
 
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While the incident with masked men did occur the content is not entirely accurate. Several Moroccans come to Sweden to play the system by claiming they are under age. They are not forced to live in the Streets. The Swedish government gives them priority as they are claiming to be underage. They run away. Just like Roma children who appear in England, they run away from care homes to the streets to make money often we find for gang bosses. In Sweden including the person accused of murdering a care worker their ages are suspect.

In Morocco there are several street gangs which make money from stealing and crimes. Sweden is a soft target The article also failed to mention interviews with Swedish officials wherein they had lost control of the crime wave in Stokholm Station where women were groped and robbed during 28 January 2015. Just like Germany (Cologne) the media was first leaked through minority media and the British Media. Morocco is getting aid from various European countries which is why Germany has threatened to stop financial assistance as that country is refusing to take back rejected migrants. There again why should Morocco take back the criminals it is glad to get rid of if they were accepted in into Europe?

Even though the Middle East and North Africa have low literacy rates and have economic problems, there are also quite a few who are highly educated and proficient in engineering, IT English and medicine. These people just like most of the Arabs are sophisticated along with most who are not educated. There again if Europe is also obsessed with hovering them up from their own countries, that will perpetuate the existing brain drain. Due to the gullibility of Sweden's government it takes anyone without checking them in itself is a security risk.

Let's get the things straight here. There is an unconfirmed rumour that Morocco (maybe the government itself) are dealing with their street kid problem by sending them to Sweden. But let's assume for the sake of argument that this is true. This is cruel on many levels since Sweden won't accept these kids. They will all get sent back. They don't qualify as refugees in any way. This is just Morocco shirking responsibility.

BTW, the article that went viral on Moroccan kids invading the Swedish train station is just made up. I live in the city and pass through it minimum twice a day. There's not a trace of it here. And Sweden is fucking cold right now. This is not the time of year to loiter in. Just last week we had -20 degrees Celsius in the streets. That'll freeze your nuts off if you stand still for any length of time. I suspect that the one cop who talked to SVT (the source of this viral piece) said it to get attention to what Morocco is doing. But rather than hating Morocco for it, people immediately just went racist. Which I suspect wasn't the original plan.

It should also be mentioned that this (if true) seems to be used as a political bargaining chip to strong arm Sweden into supporting Morocco in it's conflict surrounding Western Sahara. Morocco won't take these children/boys (it's just boys) back unless Sweden... who the fuck knows what Morocco wants. So far Sweden has done everything Morocco has asked for yet they won't take the children back. I'm pretty sure these kids understand what's happening and that they're just used as a tool of political pressure by Morocco. That's not going to make them want to behave, now is it. Let's never forget these are children and are doing what children always have done... misbehave. And now when Swedish resources are stretched thin regarding the refugees, the added Moroccan street kids are not helping.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Sahara_conflict

The right wing fanatics didn't improve anything and at least the article is correct if it says that these buffoons hit out at anything they could which didn't look Swedish. This is also predictable.

The sad thing is that these aren't right with fanatics. The reports I've read is that these are just well meaning (but stupid) ordinary people who have been shocked by all the (made up) reports. Who are frustrated and angry about it. No, it's not predictable. Because it's so extreme. I don't think anybody saw this coming. This is way off the deep end. This mirrors exactly what happened in the 20'ies and 30'ies when Nazis managed to terrify ordinary people into violence against minorities. Also based on nothing but lies.

As for the statistics, one can no longer trust the presentations from the government controlled media in Sweden where in the face of growing crime from a section of migrants both who have been in Sweden for a while and those who newly come in.

1. That's crazy talk

2. Obviously wrong if you care to do a little research. The official statistics are an excellent mirror of what is going on.

3. So if you don't trust the official statistics any longer who are you going to chose to trust? You're not going to make the fallacy of "argument from ignorance" are you?

4. Sweden does have government financed media but they aren't actually controlled by the government. The Swedish government has gone to great lengths to make sure the state financed media is in every way independent from any form of political pressure. They've even put in place an also independent judiciary (KU) to oversee that both the government doesn't try any funny business and that the state financed media aren't taking bribes.

I think what you are reacting to is the fact that Swedish official statistics and state controlled media aren't as upset and angry as they should be if international reporting was correct. Which assumes that international reporting is correct.

The Ethnic backgrounds of the accused are excluded in the press (at least some of the time) and some sentences are light. Sweden as you know was the first country to abolish censorship but that does not exclude the introduction of self censorship of the press in collusion with the government. Incidents preceding those in Cologne were not given coverage by the media. Again these come out in the minority press or foreign media.

I have no idea wtf you are talking about. If there's any censorship of the press I have no clue what you're talking about. We have dozens of racist blogs operating quite openly writing nothing but lies. The fact that those are allowed to stay in business I think proves you wrong.

It is a logical fallacy to assume that taking in 150,000 or so people in a year just by the fact that they arrive that there will be no proportional consequence in terms of crime (most of which would be petty). While Sweden claims it is deporting half of them and over a period of a few years, (no doubt many will find safe houses and melt into the background). Then if Sweden experiences what Germany did, Morocco, Algeria, Bangladesh and Pakistan will delay or refuse in taking back such migrants. Based on the experience of Britain it is likely to be more costly to deport illegals than to keep them. Those who play the system no doubt expect that Sweden may grant them an amnesty. Then (per the UK experience) deportees simply re enter the country again.

This is an excellent point. Sweden has yet to experience what happened in Cologne. As has any other city except Cologne on this one day. I'm not saying this to minimise what happened. It is very serious. But some sense of proportion is in order. It hasn't happened here yet.

I suspect it's a question of social re-enforcement. A man in a social context where such behaviour isn't re-enforced will stop doing it. I suspect the public European outcry over what happened in Cologne has already had the desired effect.

Sweden has at least started to toughen up its border checks which have already resulted in a reduction of people coming in. These are the very checks that should have been applied in the first place.

I don't agree. All increased border checks do is make it more valuable to steal identity papers. If anything it only acts to complicate the asylum process. We filter out honest people to the benefit of thieves. I fail to see how that is to the best interest of Sweden?

The refugee processing system is absurdly rigorous and complex. For any country. It's just layers and layers and layers of hoops to jump through to make it as difficult as possible. The fact that anybody manages to make it through the system is evidence of that:

1) There's a hell of a lot of refugees
2) Most refugees are decent people

I can agree on the last two points. The issue however is the fact that many are not refugees. This is why there are problems. I used to live near Milan station. If there was a commotion at about 10.00 am and I arrived at 11.00 am and it was over, I would not know there was one.

As for border checks we can simply reduce the number of undesirables. There will always be fake passports (using that of a dead person and changing the photo. However people are still getting caught at this.

Mass migration has failed so I think Sweden is adopting a more sensible policy on this issue.
 
You are referring to the sanitized party political statistics from the government. Other reports tell a different story. Also rape statistics have not been reported for a number of years

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Sweden

QUOTE In 2014, there were 6,700 rapes reported to the Swedish police—or 69 cases per 100,000 population—according to the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention (BRÅ), which is an 11 percent increase from the previous year.[5] The number of convictions has remained relatively unchanged since 2005, with approximately 190 convictions on average each year.[6][7]

There have been several international comparisons made, placing Sweden at the top end of the number of reported rapes. However, police procedures and legal definitions vary widely across countries, which makes it difficult to compare rape statistics.[8][9][10][11] For example, Sweden reformed its sex crime legislation and made the legal definition of rape much wider in 2005,[3][4][8][12] which largely explains a significant increase in the number of reported rapes in the ten-year period of 2004-2013.[13][14] The Swedish police also record each instance of sexual violence in every case separately, leading to an inflated number of cases compared to other countries.[8][11][15] Additionally, the Swedish police have improved the handling of rape cases, in an effort to increase the number of crimes reported.[8][14][16][17] Raised awareness and a shifting attitude of sexual crimes in Sweden,[note 1][18] which has been ranked as the number one country in gender equality,[19] may also explain the relatively high rates of reported rape.[8][11][20]

The BRÅ has not released detailed data on rape committed by immigrants since 1996, but according to that report individuals with an immigrant background made up 61% of all rape convictions between 1985 and 1989.[21] UNQUOTE.


So clearly if crimes are not reported it does not mean they do not happen.


Did you even read the article you're quoting? I suggest you reading it again.

There's no reason to believe Sweden has any more rape than any other country. There's a number of reasons for this. Everything from cultural to methodological. Sweden registers more as rape than any other country. It would be fair to say that Sweden sanitises our rape statistics less than any other country. That's just a fact. We are unique in this regard.

This is stated in the article you are quoting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime#Sweden

See sub topic Sweden

However this assumption agrees with what I have previously stated:

QUOTE that culture is unlikely to be a strong cause of crime among immigrants UNQUOTE

My point is that the crimes are not because they are migrants but because of a lack of checks at the border (recently showing signs of being implemented) where there could be socio economic factors but the fact that some criminals are taking the opportunity to mingle with the genuine asylum seekers.

As far as immigrants being overly represented. Whatever group has the lowest status in society will be over-represented in all blue collar crimes. Not a lot. But by a couple of percentiles. That's just fact. Also true across all cultures. Immigrants tends have low status. This is also true across all cultures. It really doesn't matter from which culture people travel or to where they travel. Has been researched extensively.

My point is that the crimes are not because they are migrants but because of a lack of checks at the border (recently showing signs of being implemented) where there could be socio economic factors but the fact that some criminals are taking the opportunity to mingle with the genuine asylum seekers.

What are you talking about? A "criminal" isn't some strange bird or rare plant. Criminals aren't born. They're made. People respond to incentives. Everybody does. Yes, including people who earlier in their lives made some bad choices. Which is what I suspect you are referring to as "criminals"?
 
I can agree on the last two points. The issue however is the fact that many are not refugees. This is why there are problems. I used to live near Milan station. If there was a commotion at about 10.00 am and I arrived at 11.00 am and it was over, I would not know there was one.

As for border checks we can simply reduce the number of undesirables. There will always be fake passports (using that of a dead person and changing the photo. However people are still getting caught at this.

Mass migration has failed so I think Sweden is adopting a more sensible policy on this issue.

Taking in refugees during a war is not "mass migration". That's just word magic. At no point has Sweden opened it's doors to whoever. The fact that some have thrown caution to the wind and come anyway doesn't mean they'll get to stay.

Again, I'm not sure what problem you think border checks have solved? All it's done is made it more important to keep your papers in order. Something difficult for somebody living in a suitcase and fleeing for their lives across Europe. All that has happened is that those who are eligible to stay but unlucky to lose their papers are now shit out of luck. And if we assume that people respond to incentives, is that:

1) Good for Europe
or
2) Bad for Europe

Legitimate Syrian refugees returned to Syria will be shot on site. Regardless of which part of Syria they're from. So returning is not an option. If you give a person a choice between death and a life of crime they'll all go for a life of crime. Then you've created a criminal. Which takes away any moral high point from which to judge "criminals".

At least a person housed in a refugee camp and fed doesn't have an incentive to commit crimes. While there's a war raging in Syria I think that's the least we can do.
 
They'll be shot on sight if they return?
Most of these are males who have left families behind. Why haven't we heard of mass shooting of these men's families?
 
They'll be shot on sight if they return?
Most of these are males who have left families behind. Why haven't we heard of mass shooting of these men's families?

There's a couple of things here. News reporting from war zones is at best unreliable. So who says it hasn't happened? Also, most refugees are first displaced within the same country. There are 4.6 million Syrian refugees. But there's also 6.6 million displaced Syrians within Syria. Their family could be in one of these camps and under the rule of some other group than the people who rule their home village. Thirdly, how likely they are to get shot depends upon what group controls the area they are returned to. And even if they are going to get shot it's not obvious what side will shoot them.

Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugees_of_the_Syrian_Civil_War
 
Do you have a reason to believe this or is this something you just made up?
Yes I do. German authorities tried to ignore Cologne incident.

What do you mean? Are you talking about the German authorities slow response on NEW-FUCKING-YEARS-EVE? The one day of the year when every countries police force is overworked and slow to respond? And you're then equating this to them doctoring statistics. That's quite the jump.

As for the speed of the authorities to issue statements. Initially the authorities wasn't sure what had happened. As nobody did. There were just rumours. The statements made reflected this uncertainty. It took a couple of days to collect and compare the stories. That's a far cry from denial. Also has nothing to do with statistics. After this story broke a hell of a lot more women came forward and made reports. Adding to the number. This wasn't known until these women came forward.

So again... wtf are you talking about?
 
I can agree on the last two points. The issue however is the fact that many are not refugees. This is why there are problems. I used to live near Milan station. If there was a commotion at about 10.00 am and I arrived at 11.00 am and it was over, I would not know there was one.

As for border checks we can simply reduce the number of undesirables. There will always be fake passports (using that of a dead person and changing the photo. However people are still getting caught at this.

Mass migration has failed so I think Sweden is adopting a more sensible policy on this issue.

Taking in refugees during a war is not "mass migration". That's just word magic. At no point has Sweden opened it's doors to whoever. The fact that some have thrown caution to the wind and come anyway doesn't mean they'll get to stay.

Again, I'm not sure what problem you think border checks have solved? All it's done is made it more important to keep your papers in order. Something difficult for somebody living in a suitcase and fleeing for their lives across Europe. All that has happened is that those who are eligible to stay but unlucky to lose their papers are now shit out of luck. And if we assume that people respond to incentives, is that:

1) Good for Europe
or
2) Bad for Europe

Legitimate Syrian refugees returned to Syria will be shot on site. Regardless of which part of Syria they're from. So returning is not an option. If you give a person a choice between death and a life of crime they'll all go for a life of crime. Then you've created a criminal. Which takes away any moral high point from which to judge "criminals".

At least a person housed in a refugee camp and fed doesn't have an incentive to commit crimes. While there's a war raging in Syria I think that's the least we can do.

Taking refugees is correct, but a lot of economic migrants joined the flow. They are from Pakistan, Bangladesh, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia and other countries. Some did come from Syria but not all. On You tube Hungarian's found thrown away IDs from these countries. The majority of crimes are not committed by Syrians. I am not sure if every one will be shot.
 
Yes I do. German authorities tried to ignore Cologne incident.

What do you mean? Are you talking about the German authorities slow response on NEW-FUCKING-YEARS-EVE? The one day of the year when every countries police force is overworked and slow to respond? And you're then equating this to them doctoring statistics. That's quite the jump.

As for the speed of the authorities to issue statements. Initially the authorities wasn't sure what had happened. As nobody did. There were just rumours. The statements made reflected this uncertainty. It took a couple of days to collect and compare the stories. That's a far cry from denial. Also has nothing to do with statistics. After this story broke a hell of a lot more women came forward and made reports. Adding to the number. This wasn't known until these women came forward.

So again... wtf are you talking about?
They were not slow, they simply tried sweep under the rug and even advised media not to press the issue.
 
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