Europe submits voluntarily

[bigfield]

Firstly, there are not adequate facilities. Detainees are denied proper access to medical services, legal services, communications etc.

Secondly, if you can't see what is wrong with putting refugees in camps and denying them basic freedoms then you need your head examined.

I said
Provided there are adequate facilities what is wrong with putting applicants in camps as described.
In 2013 the UNCHR did report that conditions were cramped and in some cases a lack of water. This would not be acceptable. Recent reports would be interesting. There is nothing wrong with putting asylum seekers into processing centres, but they should be able to accommodate the numbers coming in.

These camps are not merely emergency housing; they are detention centres. Refugees should not be put in detention; they are not criminals.

These people have human rights.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Your policy goes a very long way towards stopping economic migrants. That's it's real purpose.

You don't have any idea what you are talking about, Loren.

The majority of boat people are refugees: this was demonstrated by the figures produced by the Department of Immigration (which have now disappeared from the web since the switch to Border Force) where they showed that 90% of the boat people processed were granted asylum.

This imaginary flood of economic migrants is no different than Reagan's 'welfare queen' in the US: it's a fiction created by the right to stir up resentment in the populace and provide the political support required to forgo our obligations to people in need.

We are torturing the victims of war and persecution because of that lie.

Yeah--they're real refugees because you make it unattractive for those who are simply seeking a better life. The ones coming in fear still come because poor but safe conditions are still better than where they came from.

 

[bilby]

Refugees are not migrants.

Settling refugees in Australia only costs the average taxpayer a few dollars a year. It is extraordinarily cheap. It would be stupid for me to take on the sole financial burden for a family of refugees when that burden is spread out over millions of taxpayers.

So you're happy to burden taxpayers with your bleeding heart, feel good philosophy, but are not prepared to put your money where your mouth is!

I bet if you broke your leg, you would be happy to use a public hospital, and wouldn't even consider building and paying for your own ER at home, to avoid burdening the taxpayers.

 

[whichphilosophy]

You're a bit vague but the statistics are not irrelevant but I am sure you are contending they are incomplete. I presume you mean if a claim is valid they are settled elsewhere. Can you supply valid statistics for those settled in Australia and those settled elsewhere.

The statistics you provided are irrelevant: none of the stats you provided relate to the boat people detained in offshore detention centres under Operation Sovereign Borders, none of whom have been resettled in Australia.

This is the question. Are there any breakdowns of figures which show where these people were resettled?

 

[whichphilosophy]

I said
Provided there are adequate facilities what is wrong with putting applicants in camps as described.
In 2013 the UNCHR did report that conditions were cramped and in some cases a lack of water. This would not be acceptable. Recent reports would be interesting. There is nothing wrong with putting asylum seekers into processing centres, but they should be able to accommodate the numbers coming in.

These camps are not merely emergency housing; they are detention centres. Refugees should not be put in detention; they are not criminals.

These people have human rights.

I don't see a problem with detaining them as long as conditions are at least adequate and they have reasonable facilities and are not mistreated in any way.

 

[bilby]

These camps are not merely emergency housing; they are detention centres. Refugees should not be put in detention; they are not criminals.

These people have human rights.

I don't see a problem with detaining them as long as conditions are at least adequate and they have reasonable facilities and are not mistreated in any way.

Really? You don't see a problem with putting people in prison, even though they have not committed any crime?

Would you be OK with being incarcerated in a prison camp? Would you consider it reasonable to treat other groups of blameless people in this way? Jews? Gypsies? Homosexuals? Scientologists?

Imprisonment - even with excellent (not merely adequate) - conditions is a serious punishment. Imprisoning people who have done nothing illegal - or without first giving them a fair trial - is barbaric and inhumane.

 

[whichphilosophy]

I don't see a problem with detaining them as long as conditions are at least adequate and they have reasonable facilities and are not mistreated in any way.

Really? You don't see a problem with putting people in prison, even though they have not committed any crime?

Would you be OK with being incarcerated in a prison camp? Would you consider it reasonable to treat other groups of blameless people in this way? Jews? Gypsies? Homosexuals? Scientologists?

Imprisonment - even with excellent (not merely adequate) - conditions is a serious punishment. Imprisoning people who have done nothing illegal - or without first giving them a fair trial - is barbaric and inhumane.

If someone comes into a country illegally he will at first sometimes be detained but not in a prison. At least this would be until obtaining security clearance if the person is later permitted to then land at a given place pending appeal. There isn't much to do in Nauru however.
Anyway are there any figures to show how many were given Asylum in Australia during 2015. Of course we shouldn't be treating them like the Nazis did?

 

[angelo]

Provided there are adequate facilities what is wrong with putting applicants in camps as described.

Firstly, there are not adequate facilities. Detainees are denied proper access to medical services, legal services, communications etc.

Secondly, if you can't see what is wrong with putting refugees in camps and denying them basic freedoms then you need your head examined.

Great idea. Give them free access to legal services, [something denied to most Australians] so they can sue the the country of refuge using that countries tax payers to fund them!

 

[angelo]

I don't see a problem with detaining them as long as conditions are at least adequate and they have reasonable facilities and are not mistreated in any way.

Really? You don't see a problem with putting people in prison, even though they have not committed any crime?

Would you be OK with being incarcerated in a prison camp? Would you consider it reasonable to treat other groups of blameless people in this way? Jews? Gypsies? Homosexuals? Scientologists?

Imprisonment - even with excellent (not merely adequate) - conditions is a serious punishment. Imprisoning people who have done nothing illegal - or without first giving them a fair trial - is barbaric and inhumane.

Entering a country illegally IS a crime!

 

[DrZoidberg]

Don't have a cow, man.

Queri: can a European man cow an Auzie cow man? That would really moove me. Not enough to leave speederfundus though.

How about a man-cow-pig? Would an Australian man-cow-pig beat a European man-cow-pig?

 

[angelo]

So you're happy to burden taxpayers with your bleeding heart, feel good philosophy, but are not prepared to put your money where your mouth is!

I bet if you broke your leg, you would be happy to use a public hospital, and wouldn't even consider building and paying for your own ER at home, to avoid burdening the taxpayers.

Shifted the goal posts have we?

 

[bilby]

Really? You don't see a problem with putting people in prison, even though they have not committed any crime?

Would you be OK with being incarcerated in a prison camp? Would you consider it reasonable to treat other groups of blameless people in this way? Jews? Gypsies? Homosexuals? Scientologists?

Imprisonment - even with excellent (not merely adequate) - conditions is a serious punishment. Imprisoning people who have done nothing illegal - or without first giving them a fair trial - is barbaric and inhumane.

Entering a country illegally IS a crime!

Not if that country is Australia, it's not.

While asylum seekers and refugees are in Australian territory (or otherwise engage Australia's jurisdiction), the Australian Government has obligations under various international treaties to ensure that their human rights are respected and protected. These treaties include the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR), the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (ICESCR), the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment (CAT) and the Convention on the Rights of the Child (CRC). These rights include the right not to be arbitrarily detained.

Source.

You really, really need to stop posting statements that are completely false. For fuck's sake, Google first, and if what you planned to say is utter bollocks, say something else, or say nothing.

Surely you don't enjoy being exposed as completely wrong, time and time again?

This is painful to watch. What's next, are you going to claim that the Earth is flat; or that the Moon landings were faked; or that JFK was shot by Elvis?

If you can't be bothered to inform yourself of the facts, the least you could do for yourself is keep quiet, so that people can underestimate your degree of ignorance.

 

[bilby]

I bet if you broke your leg, you would be happy to use a public hospital, and wouldn't even consider building and paying for your own ER at home, to avoid burdening the taxpayers.

Shifted the goal posts have we?

No.

 

[bigfield]

Firstly, there are not adequate facilities. Detainees are denied proper access to medical services, legal services, communications etc.

Secondly, if you can't see what is wrong with putting refugees in camps and denying them basic freedoms then you need your head examined.

Great idea. Give them free access to legal services, [something denied to most Australians] so they can sue the the country of refuge using that countries tax payers to fund them!

Firstly, Australians are not denied access to legal services. Even convicted criminals can access legal services.

Secondly, denying people access to legal services so that they can't sue you is pretty fucking sick-minded. It's is a colossal abuse of power.

 

[bigfield]

This is painful to watch. What's next, are you going to claim that the Earth is flat; or that the Moon landings were faked; or that JFK was shot by Elvis?

Climate change is a hoax! I read it on ravingsofanutcase.blogspot.com/newworldorder/climateconspiracy

 

[TSwizzle]

The stampede of "refugees" into Europe continues;

More than 100,000 refugees and migrants have arrived in Europe so far this year, at triple the rate of arrivals over the first half of 2015. At least 102,500 have arrived on the Greek islands of Samos, Kos and Lesbos, according to the International Organisation for Migration (IOM).

Guardian

 

[angelo]

Great idea. Give them free access to legal services, [something denied to most Australians] so they can sue the the country of refuge using that countries tax payers to fund them!

Firstly, Australians are not denied access to legal services. Even convicted criminals can access legal services.

Secondly, denying people access to legal services so that they can't sue you is pretty fucking sick-minded. It's is a colossal abuse of power.

Obviously you've never tried to get legal aid here in Australia.

 

[angelo]

The stampede of "refugees" into Europe continues;

More than 100,000 refugees and migrants have arrived in Europe so far this year, at triple the rate of arrivals over the first half of 2015. At least 102,500 have arrived on the Greek islands of Samos, Kos and Lesbos, according to the International Organisation for Migration (IOM).

Guardian

The Germans have thrown up their arms in surrender and are begging the EU to take more migrants.

 

[bigfield]

Firstly, Australians are not denied access to legal services. Even convicted criminals can access legal services.

Secondly, denying people access to legal services so that they can't sue you is pretty fucking sick-minded. It's is a colossal abuse of power.

Obviously you've never tried to get legal aid here in Australia.

Who said anything about legal aid? Legal Aid is a state-run service and has fuck-all to do with refugees.

Refugees are denied the right to speak to any lawyers, pro bono or not.

And you support that. That's sick.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Obviously you've never tried to get legal aid here in Australia.

Who said anything about legal aid? Legal Aid is a state-run service and has fuck-all to do with refugees.

Refugees are denied the right to speak to any lawyers, pro bono or not.

And you support that. That's sick.

This was scrapped for those who arrive either by boat or plane. Im not sure how they could arrive without a visa since the airlines check them unless there is some payment under the counter. However, at the same time it is very possible there are genuine cases who may have simply fled the country and could not get a visa in time. It seems unfair if they cannot even speak to a lawyer who offers this free.
This is actually inhibiting a lawyer's right to speak to someone when he is not even charging for it.